Jive Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 or would they decide on the race they met in who came out on top? I have to say i liked the current format but often found the pre-main event rather tedious, so maybe seeing 16 top riders slug it out 5 times is more entertaining. It will certainly make every race more worthwhile with meeting points counting as World Championship points which is a good move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 I don't really know why there is so much confusion over the format. Next year's format was trialled during this season's WC qualifying and the World U-21 rounds and is pretty simple - the top eight after 20 heats qualify for knockout semi-finals. The first two in each of those qualify for the final. No carrying points forward or anything like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When John Poshbloke explained it on Saturday he said that all the points scored in the meeting would count. But are you saying that those who get to the semis get the same as at present with their points in the meeting not counting, so the scores go 25, 20, 18, 16, 13, 11 and it is only the rest who just get whatever they scored in the meeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 But are you saying that those who get to the semis get the same as at present with their points in the meeting not counting, so the scores go 25, 20, 18, 16, 13, 11 and it is only the rest who just get whatever they scored in the meeting? I haven't see it in writing yet, but that would be my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 But are you saying that those who get to the semis get the same as at present with their points in the meeting not counting, so the scores go 25, 20, 18, 16, 13, 11 and it is only the rest who just get whatever they scored in the meeting? I haven't see it in writing yet, but that would be my understanding. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Kevin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I don't really know why there is so much confusion over the format. Next year's format was trialled during this season's WC qualifying and the World U-21 rounds and is pretty simple - the top eight after 20 heats qualify for knockout semi-finals. The first two in each of those qualify for the final. No carrying points forward or anything like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well i ain't heard what the blöoke said but i gathered from what SS said that points scored count as GP points then it makes sense that it is the same system as used here in Germany.So if you finish behind someone in the semi's who has a lower total than you,you naturaly go through to the final.No getting a 15 point max in the 20 heats and then getting knocked out for finishing third in the semi behind someone who's points total reads(2,1,2,2,3,2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Does that mean then that the winner of the final, is not nesercarily the highest scorer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 (edited) Does that mean then that the winner of the final, is not nesercarily the highest scorer? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The highest scorer wins the meeting ,he's necesarillynot the rider who wins the final race.That is how it worked here.But like SS said every point throughout the meeting counts.Not just one or two heats Here is a link to the meeting results to see how it worked.Like i say ,don't know if this is the format but from what SS said it sounds like it.You can see at Brokstedt for instance a rider fell and another had an e.f in the semi but still went forward to the final.Junior DM format Edited October 6, 2004 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Sounds to me like this new format is very much like the World Long Track used to be (or maybe still is for all I know). Is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Sounds to me like this new format is very much like the World Long Track used to be (or maybe still is for all I know). Is that right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was thinking that too. I'm not sure about it myself. I prefer the winner of the final being the winner of the meeting, and I've always found that a good thing with the GP. Also, you can follow the current format relatively easy on in that if someone is riding then they are still in with a chance of winning the meeting. Simple. On top of that, I don't like it when a rider can score a 15 point maximum in his programmed rides, then be KOd in the semi by an ef and finish 8th, so whichever way it's done is, in my opinion, not as good as the way it is done now, which I think works very well over a series of meetings. The 'new' system will need a lot of score-keeping in order to know how it is going - fine for the standard speedway fan, but maybe not so much for the newcomers, who must be taken into account if the GP is to grow. Having said that, though, if you are going to keep a scorecard, then the new system will certainly involve less writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Well i ain't heard what the blöoke said but i gathered from what SS said that points scored count as GP points then it makes sense that it is the same system as used here in Germany. The German system might make sense, but I'm pretty sure the SGP will use the format they trialled in the WC Qualifiers this season (i.e. knockout semi-finals). I can't imagine how you'd explain to the casual viewer that the rider winning the final is not necessarily the overall winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Agree with you both.To the casual viewer the winner must win the final.Just if the points scored are the GP points then the German system fits.As i said i don't have Sky and don't have an awful lot of interest in the GP's.Might go to Denmark next year though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I don't have Sky either, and if I watch the GP it is on an internet feed in Danish. The way the system works at the moment I can follow it easily and without much effort. I think they are complicating things unneccesarily. (By the way Iris123 - I love your signature. I was just wondering what your opinion is on the nauseating bashfulness of early Diana.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I don't have Sky either, and if I watch the GP it is on an internet feed in Danish. The way the system works at the moment I can follow it easily and without much effort. I think they are complicating things unneccesarily. (By the way Iris123 - I love your signature. I was just wondering what your opinion is on the nauseating bashfulness of early Diana.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Must try that internet feed,was it any good? All i want for xmas is a Dukla Prague away kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 It's not bad, but can be a bit stop/start from time to time if it gets busy, which it inevitably does. I reckon it's got a dodgy transformer... again and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Also, you can follow the current format relatively easy on in that if someone is riding then they are still in with a chance of winning the meeting. It's actually difficult to come-up with a perfect system that combines the old 20-heat format with the 'excitement' of sudden-death races. The old 16-rider GP format was a reasonable compromise, but the C and D-Finals were a bit of a waste of time. I suppose an 8-rider straightforward knockout event after the 20-heats is okay, although I'd like to see the qualifiers with the most points getting to choose their gate positions, rather than have a ballot as this season. The 'new' system will need a lot of score-keeping in order to know how it is going - fine for the standard speedway fan, but maybe not so much for the newcomers I doubt that casual fans will sit down and score the meeting by hand. They'll rely on the television captions. Cricket is a much more complicated sport than speedway, yet fans still understand how the scoring works (except when the Duckworth-Lewis mechanism is being used ;-)). Even if they don't, they can let television do the calculations for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 On top of that, I don't like it when a rider can score a 15 point maximum in his programmed rides, then be KOd in the semi by an ef and finish 8th I would change the format of the knockout races, so that higher placed riders get a second chance if they miss out in their first race. For example... Heat 21: 5th to 8th placed riders (3rd and 4th eliminated) Heat 22: 1st to 4th placed riders Heat 23: 3rd and 4th in Heat 22, 1st and 2nd in Heat 21 (3rd and 4th eliminated) Heat 24: 1st and 2nd Heat 22, 1st and 2nd Heat 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 On top of that, I don't like it when a rider can score a 15 point maximum in his programmed rides, then be KOd in the semi by an ef and finish 8th I would change the format of the knockout races, so that higher placed riders get a second chance if they miss out in their first race. For example... Heat 21: 5th to 8th placed riders (3rd and 4th eliminated) Heat 22: 1st to 4th placed riders Heat 23: 3rd and 4th in Heat 22, 1st and 2nd in Heat 21 (3rd and 4th eliminated) Heat 24: 1st and 2nd Heat 22, 1st and 2nd Heat 23 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's not a bad idea Kevin. It certainly gets rid of the problem I've stated. How would you work out the points. Would you have it that the winner of the final wins the meeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 How would you work out the points. Would you have it that the winner of the final wins the meeting? The four knockout heats would decide the top eight positions - the Final decides the top four positions, 3rd and 4th in Heat 23 would finish 5th and 6th overall, whilst 3rd and 4th in Heat 21 would finish 7th and 8th overall. The race points in Heats 1-20 would simply decide who qualifies, and the choice of gate positions in Heats 21 and 22. I hadn't really thought about how to award GP points. The problem with using a combination of race points and GP points is that a 9th-placed (non-qualifying) rider can score anything from 4 to 11 race points, and simply adding bonus points to existing race points could mean that a winner of a GP could end-up with less GP points than another rider. I think I would just award GP points based on final placings in each GP. Race points would still be important for improving a rider's placing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 (edited) I agree. Maybe 1-8 points for the bottom 8, with GP points from, say, 10 to 25 for the top 8. I think that might keep the meeting interesting enough. Remember the mad scraps for points in the old World Championships qualifying rounds. Edited October 7, 2004 by Grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjw ministerofport Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I have looked at all your posts and bow to the knowledge and comments listed. The GP system has a few faults for me which i will list. But before doing so i would like to say that what ever points system they use its the greatest show on earth for (me and i don't mean circus). 1 We buy a program but don't bother to attempt to fill it in on the night, it takes up to much time and is complicated. We want to see what is happening and have some fun between each race. 2 The first eight heats do seem to be less exciting. 3 To ride for a safe second, thats not racing racing should be to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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