Tactical Ride / Tactical Substitutes

[vog]

well,i hate the thing.having seen stoke go out of the KoC to it last year,and lose matches to it this year,i cant see the point to it.they say its to stop demoralizing losses,well,stoke vs somerset,62-32,they gained 4 extra points,and were still hammered by 30,it doesnt make for closer meetings generally as the stronger team usually comes out on top.There has to be a better rule for this.The old Tac ride rule was good,but maybe needed some tweaking,but it was still better than this.The Tac Sub(15 yard) Rule is great,one of the best races ive seen was Stoke vs Arena Essex,heat 14 when jan staechmann came out as a Golden Double and won.Bring back the old Tac Sub,but maybe say something like the top 2 riders from a team(ie,1 and 5) cant come out in heats 8 and 14,the tac ride for there must be 3,4 or 2

[woody-the-bee]

i can't stand the TR. having seen it so many times this season, being a coventry fan, i still despise it. it rewards riders for winning races which they could've won anyway. how is that fair? just because a team is behind, they send their best rider out in a heat he knows he's going to win and gets 6 points for it.

 

the rider is doing nothing special of different to what he would normally, except wear a different helmet colour. now the tactical substitute rule, i liked that. the management took a gamble and the rider had to do something special to come out of the race with the double points.

 

as i say, being a coventry fan i've seen the TR in nearly every meeting i've been to. when we use it, it never works. however, the 2 times (yes, twice) it's been used against us it's decided the meeting and ended up in us losing. the meetings against poole and swindon would otherwise have gone our way but for the TR rule. lunacy.

[rob]

If the TR rule is to be scrapped at the forthcoming BSPA AGM we need another controversial breakdown on the last lap of a major televised meeting so that the TR can be used in Heat 14. Perhaps this will happen in the EL Play-Offs, and then there will be outrage like there was after the Eastbourne vs Poole match. Hopefully this will happen and the promoters will scrap the rule. I hope they are aware of our feelings.

[Star Fever]

Whether its TS or TR next year hopefully they'll stop it in ht14, especially if they insist on ht 14 being a 'weaker' heat. Thats always been far too late to have a possible match-winning tactical move IMO.

 

I hope that there are other tweaks too IF the old tac sub is re-introduced, like Vog's idea for instance:

old Tac Sub,but maybe say something like the top 2 riders from a team(ie,1 and 5) cant come out in heats 8 and 14,the tac ride for there must be 3,4 or 2

[Lanzilla]

I'm a bit late getting to this thread but have to say that i am no longer in favour of the TS and TR rules.

At the start of the season i was prepared to give it a go, as in principle it seemed a fairly good idea. However, after seeing the damage this ruling has done i would be more than happy to see the back of it.

 

If it does stay then i would hope that it will be no longer allowed after heat 12 as that is also the meeting cut off point if a meeting has to be abandoned for any reason. It should only be allowed once with the option of a TS off 15 metres as the other option.

 

Should the scores between two teams be level after home and away fixtures, then forget the run off and award the bonus point to the team that has used fewer TRs over the two legs.

 

To be honest, i'm with Phil on this one. I'd rather see no tactical rides allowed at all and just let the riders go head to head and the best team win by whatever margin.That's what they are paid for! Let's face it...we've had the ruling in use for the best part of a season and we have still seen a lot of teams getting walloped.

 

I can see why some of these decisions are made and alarmingly many are made with Sky in mind.

 

Elite League Speedway is fast becoming a showpiece rather like WWE, and although i am a fan of Terry Russell and his vision for the future of the sport, i believe he is getting far too big and his portfolio of Clubs is getting larger. Soon it will be just him making all the decisions, if indeed he isn't making them all already.

 

If i think for one minute that this Sport is becoming stage managed at Elite Level, then i will turn my back on it. The TR and TS ruling has allowed the sport's rules to be manipulated further this season and has done nothing for the credibility.

 

I just want to see good honest racing. Surely that's not too much to ask for?

[Shoddy]

Vote added - I think you can guess which way I went.

 

Stupid - nuff said.

[Wildcat Steve]

I'm a bit late getting to this thread but have to say that i am no longer in favour of the TS and TR rules.

At the start of the season i was prepared to give it a go, as in principle it seemed a fairly good idea. However, after seeing the damage this ruling has done i would be more than happy to see the back of it.

 

If it does stay then i would hope that it will be no longer allowed after heat 12 as that is also the meeting cut off point if a meeting has to be abandoned for any reason. It should only be allowed once with the option of a TS off 15 metres as the other option.

 

Should the scores between two teams be level after home and away fixtures, then forget the run off and award the bonus point to the team that has used fewer TRs over the two legs.

 

To be honest, i'm with Phil on this one. I'd rather see no tactical rides allowed at all and just let the riders go head to head and the best team win by whatever margin.That's what they are paid for!  Let's face it...we've had the ruling in use for the best part of a season and we have still seen a lot of teams getting walloped.

 

I can see why some of these decisions are made and alarmingly many are made with Sky in mind.

 

Elite League Speedway is fast becoming a showpiece rather like WWE, and although i am a fan of Terry Russell and his vision for the future of the sport, i believe he is getting far too big and his portfolio of Clubs is getting larger. Soon it will be just him making all the decisions, if indeed he isn't making them all already.

 

If i think for one minute that this Sport is becoming stage managed at Elite Level, then i will turn my back on it. The TR and TS ruling has allowed the sport's rules to be manipulated further this season and has done nothing for the credibility.

 

I just want to see good honest racing. Surely that's not too much to ask for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Spot on Lanzilla

Like you I have always thought Terry Russell was good for the sport. but when you start having a stake in everything and calling the shots and dancing to the tune of Sky they you start to wonder.

I have never been a fan of the tac ride and it does the sport no credit. off 15 meters thats a different story and a manager has to gamble Makes it interesting.

Lanzilla come to Weymouth and see some grass roots racing. I have been going to poole for...... many years and this season i just cant get fired up like years gone by. Dont know if its because of the rules or the way the EL is going. I have seen some super action good close racing sometimes but this year something is missing. May just be Tim Helm ( stressed) not being on the mike and doing the music as we have had some cracking meetings at the Wessex and Mr Helm has been very funny on the mike and given good entertainment. ( half the time at my expence)

Edited September 9, 2004 by Wildcat Steve

[SCB]

One thing I do want to add that I forgot earlier. This rule is great for the CL where riders can (in theory) have more rides and the top guys don't start taking away the lower order riders rides.

Edited September 9, 2004 by SCB

[Guest R D Street]

Get rid of the T/R - stupid rule, double points but the promoters like it cos they only pay single points,saving them the extra points money the old tac sub would earn.

 

Prefer tac subs off 15yds/meters whatever, but not golden double, points only to count single - give the top guys a bit of a challenge without penalising the winning side excessively and unfairly.

 

I would sooner see the extra ride from a star rider than watching a struggler, so regardless of the fact that they may be taking a lesser rider's race, it would be better for the fans who pay the wages.

 

Guest rider rules also need revision as they're still open to abuse with Newcastle tracking 2 Edinburgh riders last night when their top guy, Lyons was riding, also their two reserves.

I'm not a Kings Lynn fan but a win at Newcastle could have put them in contention for the play offs.

[seanisnumber1]

I think that the old tactical sub rule was better where anyone could have a ride when 6 pts behind.

 

At least it was interesting trying to work out who would get extra rides and when.

[marko]

I have hated this rule right from the start and unfortunately i have followed a team that nine times out of ten will gift wrap the oposition an 8-1 as soon as its used

 

whether the promoters will see sense is another thing but if they are not going to go back to the old tac subs then the threshold for using the tactical should be at least ten points down instead of eight or keep it at eight but each tactical must be on a handicap of 15m back.

 

Promoters-we didnt want it, we dont like it, get rid of it!