The Conference League

[born_2b_mad]

The way that sean is looking at the League could quite easily work........IF a certain person would get up off their backside to make it work!!

 

All that happens is that the rules(!) that are in place are tinkered with left right and centre!

 

As I've said time and time again, nothing will be sorted whilst Morrish is in charge, let someone who wants to run the Conference League properly do it.

[Bryn]

The way that sean is looking at the League could quite easily work........IF a certain person would get up off their backside to make it work!!

Very interesting reading your comments born_2B_mad and, I think the salient points (for the purpose of this particular posting only) made by Sean (and forgive the editing but done for a purpose as you'll see) was when he said, "i was thinking more along the lines of an amateur league, where smaller clubs could get started and build up riders and fans bases, before deciding to go professional. Not all clubs need to be professional. think of the chances of getting maybe Lottery grants and financial backing with Youth policies and youth racing, if the "Club" wasn't professionally linked to a league.

i am not talking about breaking away and taking say half the riders now from any league and starting a "league". i am thinking away from the professional scene and taking the amateur and youth away from the BSPA."

 

Unfortunately Sean's vision (which has many commendable points) does not ally itself well with what Dave # Name Removed #, a director of your club at Plough Lane, said on a different thread. That was, "It's all very well for the critics, who are not putting either their time or their money into the Sport to come out with various unworkable suggestions, but the reality is that Wimbledon is expensive to run and nobody is going to pay £11 to watch one old hand and six novices get beaten every week. (Sorry, never have liked the word 'wobblers')"

 

I think this is a prime example as to just how difficult it has been, and will continue to be, to come up with some form of formula to "combine" everyone's different agendas in the CL.

[Sean]

i think you have hit the nail on the head there Bryn.. by saying ..

 

"I think this is a prime example as to just how difficult it has been, and will continue to be, to come up with some form of formula to "combine" everyone's different agendas in the CL."

 

It is now at a point where we have to split the league, in order to accomodate all the diffrent needs of the clubs.

it cannot go on much longer as it is, and i don't see a way past the end of this season with the incoming clubs.

[NJT]

Its time to move away from the the Elite, Premier and Conference way of thinking and introduce three divisions with an equal (as far as possible) number of teams in each. The BSPA should provide any assistance to clubs to move up if required to make up numbers. The currect structure is not benifiting the long term future of british speedway on the international scene.

 

Stand Alone CL tracks such as Mildenhall, Weymouth, Boston would then join Division Three in the first season. Promotion/Relegation should be introduced to keep the league make up fresh. Team building rules need to be reviewed and be consistant. Division One and Two clubs to be encouraged to run 6 heat Youth Development matches in the second half.

 

Strict rules about youth development team building to only allow british nationals. Every Division 1 club to name a British Under 23 at Number 7 and retain the rider for the season, similarly every Division 2 club to name a British Undere 19 at Number 7 ands retaing for the season. Grading should be scrapped and pure points limit based team building. Some though needed about the conversion factor from Div 1 to Div 2 and Div 2 to Div 1 to gain effective team building.

 

Guests to be outlawed for all except Number 1 rider in a team, places 2-5 covered by R/R with a named number 8 from Youth Development guaranteed 1 ride. Exception as now when multiple riders are injured. Clubs to be prevented using guests on a long term basis for an injured rider. Reserves only to be covered by Youth Development riders

 

Just a few thoughts now go ahead and shoot me down!

[Kevin Meynell]

introduce three divisions with an equal (as far as possible) number of teams in each.

 

Whilst it would be nice to have three leagues of approximately equal size, why does it actually matter if they're not? In fact, there are 30 standalone tracks (31 if you include Sittingbourne), so all that would happen is five teams moving down from the BPL to the BCL (to make 10 teams in every league). I'm sure the BPL fans would be happy with that!

 

The BSPA should provide any assistance to clubs to move up if required to make up numbers.

 

Firstly, is it sensible to subsidise teams that can't afford to run at a higher level? Secondly, where would the money come from?

 

Promotion/Relegation should be introduced to keep the league make up fresh.

 

This idea just won't go away. Promotion and relegation will never work unless there are more teams trying to get into the top league than there are places. I don't see teams clamouring to get into the BEL, and Wimbledon and Mildenhall don't seem that interested in moving-up to the BPL either.

 

Strict rules about youth development team building to only allow british nationals.  Every Division 1 club to name a British Under 23 at Number 7

 

European law doesn't allow it. The only thing you could really do would be to insist a certain number of riders held an ACU licence (so they'd have to give priority to British meetings), but that doesn't preclude foreigners from holding them.

 

with a named number 8 from Youth Development guaranteed 1 ride.

 

I can't imagine many riders would be interested in trekking all over the country for one ride per meeting!

Edited August 12, 2004 by Kevin Meynell

[AmberCelt]

I think the League should definitely be split into "Conference League" for stand alone clubs and "Academy League" for obvious junior teams of EL/PL clubs.

Having said that I would like to see a sort of "friendly" farm system develop where a chain is formed from AL through to EL .

Try this as an example

 

AL-Newport Mavericks>CL-Carmarthen>PL-Newport Wasps>EL-Swindon(just an example Waspies!)

AL-Stoke Spitfires>CL-Buxton>PL-Stoke Potters>EL-Belle Vue

 

Hopefully promoters would band together regionally like this and use this to develop their own talent over a period of years.Naturally track closures ,promotional changes,teams moving up and down leagues would affect this system but in an ideal (i.e non-speedway) world it can and does work as in MLB and the NHL in North America.

[Vince]

The problem with splitting the current Conference league is that many riders just won't be able to get enough meetings to improve. In an ideal world these youngsters need to be racing at least once a week or they just don't progress, although the training schools allow them to ride and are great in the off-season racing is the quickest way for them to get better. I think you will find that is as much a reason for riders to go to certain teams as the money, if the team is riding league and trophy the riders get more meetings under their belt. It is the same with having second half meetings, who is going to travel from say Newport to Armadale for 2 or at best 3 rides? It could take the whole meeting to find a gear that worked. At least in the Conference (with the sensible teams) he will usually get 4 rides.

If you split the stand alone clubs from the others by running trophy for one and league for the other all you will do is reduce the number of riders needed and make it more difficult for the inexperienced riders to get into a team and more appealing for the teams to use Premier standard riders. If you want to make the racing closer a half hour practice before the meeting for the away team would help as the inexperienced riders would have the opportunity to learn the tracks well enough and get their bikes set up to allow them to be competetive when the meeting started. It's OK for riders who have plenty of experience to turn up even to a new track and race but it is very difficult for the youngsters, I think Speedway is the only motor sport where practice isn't compulsory.

One thing I don't think many realise is just how many young riders there are looking for team places, obviously some aren't up to the job yet but there are also many who are decent riders but have signed for strong teams and not been used. These riders will be lost to the sport if they don't get to ride as nobody is going to invest the time and money needed for this sport if they can't get to ride.

An amateur league would be a non-starter. Unlike Grass Track or Motocross which are run in a local farmers field for Speedway you need an expensive, purpose built track. A mx or Grass Track can also attract 100 - 200 riders to help cover costs, they then have to run the meeting over a whole day, most Speedway tracks would be unable to do that. Then if riders are competing in leagues there are very high mileages that need them (and their parents/ mechanics) to take time off work. You could only run as an amateur league if you ran individual meetings and then riders would tend to compete on their most local tracks and never get the experience needed to make the step up.

[jasper wasp]

1ABOLISH rule .no rider replacement.must use no.8rider at all times . as far as i can see the problem is the r/r rule .

[Guest Christophers Dad]

Depends how good your No8 is i suppose

[kingussie]

As a general point the conf league is too expensive to run and I believe it should be a purely development league for riders of any age but in their first 2/3 years of taking up the sport.

I also believe strongly that they should be riding standard machines with a 125 or 250cc engine . The lower costs would encourage more young ones to get involved. At an early stage in their career skill is much more important than speed.

what did Hans Nielson keep saying when he was riding about developing British youth.

[Vince]

Personally I don't think that smaller engines are the way to go, standard engines, carbs, clutches and ignitions would be good but very difficult to enforce. There would also be the problem of needing extra equipment to step up a league.

Assuming that averages are coming in what about allowing one old hand per team on his straight average but then adding 0.5 per full year of any league experience up to a maximum of 6 years for every other rider with no minimum. So newcomers would come in at 0.5 which would make them a good option. Most riders who are still learning could expect to increase their average by more than 0.5 while riders who have come down from the Premier or spent years in the league would struggle to match their average, this would hand the advantage to improving riders where now it is definitly with the experienced rider.

[bowes]

I would have the stand alone clubs that can afford it, Mildenhall etc. run in the BCL even if it's only 6 or 7 teams they can play each other 4 times. The junior teams can run in a separate merit league (you play who you want and average points is the decider subject to playing, say, 6 fixtures), with more teams encouraged to run them, along with any new/small teams.

This isn't too far to what it was when I first started watching speedway with a 7 team BCL and a merit BDL

[greyhoundp]

The problems <financial> arise when teams allegedly go outside of the pay structure of points & travel expences.Some of the teams state they cannot survive in the Premier League yet go outside of the Guidelines for the Conference league,what is needed is perhaps for a league in between the Conference and Premier,the Conference to stay with an added Amateur Development League,and the new Conference league to pay slightly more than the current Conference pay structure.

So beneath the Conference League we would have the Amateur Development League, age and pay structure to be decided, but within the STRICT guidelines of Amateur ie expences only.

Bear in mind the lower League,s are not only to Develop riders but also to Develop New Tracks so that they to can progress through the various Leagues,for instance without the Conference League we would not have;Wimbledon,Somerset,

Isle of Wight etc. So with an ADL it reduces costs for a potential New Track to test the water. The new Conference structure would enable experienced riders to compete still with the younger riders who are stagnating by not getting Premier rides that they need,and have that natural development that is essential with a bit more pay in return,which is allegedly what goes on anyway with certain current Conference Tracks.

Edited December 27, 2004 by greyhoundp