The Conference League

[JT]

The Conference League has been at the centre of many an argument in the last season with Mildenhal and Wimbledon tracking teams worthy of the Premier League and others like Newport tracking essentially novices.

 

Although teams like the Fen Tigers come under heavy criticism for tracking such strong teams, they are in all due fairness taking advantage of the loopholes in a division that was once called 'The Development League'!

 

Instead of moaning at sides whose teams are either too strong or too weak surely it would be more productive if speedway supporters from all leagues identify the problems, possible solutions and discuss new concepts that will hopefully culminate in a grand plan that maybe in the winter we could send to the BSPA.

 

First of all as mentioned earlier it is clear that different teams have different agendas and with the current rules and regulations (or lack of!) it is inevtible that their will be much conflict between the stand alone clubs and clubs using the league to find and develop raw talent. A solution needs to be found that will meet both agendas at the middle and make certain that teams are not too strong or too weak.

 

The subject of Old hands is another that has come under the spotlight in recent years, now I can understand why CL teams MUST use experienced riders, to help develop younger riders but the term old hand needs to be looked at carefully and revised. In my opinion an old hand should be a rider with more than 12 full months professional (PL or EL) experience in which the rider has obtained a PL average of +4 or an EL average of +2, this will avoid flooding the league with riders like Paul Lee who although still relatively young is obviously of too high quality to have more than one in a team. These riders will be named the clubs 'Development Tutor' rather than the old fashioned term 'old hand' and will be the clubs number 1 rider and responsible for coaching the more inexperienced talent. Each club will only be allowed one of these riders.

 

Post any new ideas you have, opinions on other peoples ideas and discuss what is wrong with the league in its current state to ensure that next season will bring on more British talent!

Edited July 17, 2004 by JT

[Vince]

I think the idea of changing the title of the 'old hand' would be good. I also think it would be an idea to introduce a point limit for teams based on a rolling average. It would help the real newcomers if the 2 reserves had to be under a certain limit - say 4 points then at least they could have a couple of rides against riders of a similar standard. I also think that no team should be allowed to use rider replacement except in a genuine emergency, too many clubs are travelling with 6 riders and leaving squad members sat idle. Or perhaps the home team could always have a reserve on hand to be used if a rider fails to make a meeting and whichever team uses him has to pay him.

I think that if things continue as they are the stand alone clubs will ultimately be the losers as there are not enough of them to build a full league that will support them if the second teams break away into a proper development league.

[dtc]

As far and "old hands" ane concerned the best thing to do is introduce a Squad system in the EL and PL, Riders such as Scott Peglar who has the ability to ride PL but cannot commit full time to speedway would have a chance of riding to their ability.

 

The banning of R/R and Guesting at CL should also be introduces, if you cannot get 7 riders from a squad of 12 or more something is going wrong.

 

Introbucing a propper rules for riding order based on ability AND experiance to stop instances like last week where Newport were told Jamie Westercoff could not ride at reserve by the manager of the opposing team.

 

Also i think the BPSA should be "paying" teams such as Mildenhall to go to the premier league, I'm sure with one or two team changes at the top end of the team they could compete well at that leval.

[JT]

How about trying to get a major manufacture like Honda involved again just at first for CL racing? By having one manufacture like the Yamaha R6 Cup in track racing, all riders are on a level playing field, costs would be reduced dramatically which in turn would attract many new riders and the profile of speedway as a whole would be raised enormously by having such a big manufacture involved!

 

Introducing THE HONDA DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE

[Top Cat]

Introbucing a propper rules for riding order based on ability AND experiance to stop instances like last week where Newport were told Jamie Westercoff could not ride at reserve by the manager of the opposing team.

A memo was sent by Peter Morrish informing teams that Jamie Westacott and Darren Rolph were no longer eligable to ride at reserve.

How can a team manager tell the opposing team to put Jamie in their top 5!

 

Please get facts right or at least engage your brain before making such stupid comments.

 

This memo was obviously not seen by Tim Stone or the newport team manager.

 

It was copied to all Conference League/Trophy chairmen. After all Malcolm Vasey lost out himself by having to move Darren Rolph out of the reserve berth.

[dtc]

Top cat, I did not say where Jamie could or could not ride, i said that the rules needed to be made stronger/changed to insure in this case Jamies name was not put forward for reserve before the team was decided and the programs were produced.

 

Also one of the away fans said their team manager (who had obviously read the memo) had complained about the riding order.

 

This was an example, similar things have happened on sevral other occations as well. This was the only one i could think of at the time.

 

You engage your brain before making comments about what others have said.

Edited July 19, 2004 by dtc

[Top Cat]

Top cat, I did not say where Jamie could or could not ride, i said that the rules needed to be made stronger/changed to insure in this case Jamies name was not put forward for reserve before the team was decided and the programs were produced.

 

Also one of the away fans said their team manager (who had obviously read the memo) had complained about the riding order.

 

This was an example, similar things have happened on sevral other occations as well. This was the only one i could think of at the time.

 

You engage your brain before making comments about what others have said.

Malcolm Vasey didn't complain about the riding order, he was stating a fact, he had already moved Darren Rolph into his top 5 and simply wanted Newport to do the same with Jamie Westacott as instructed by Peter Morrish.

 

So you have an example of nothing, so can you also give more examples of nothing?

 

Please don't tell me to use my brain as I had the memo that Newport say they never had.

 

I have spoken with Malcolm Vasey about this subject and he was dissapointed with what was said and reported by the Newport promotion.

 

I am all for the progression of the Conference League, but lets be more constructive and not waffle on about nonsense!

[dtc]

Newport had not made the relavent changes, Vasey "stated" that Newport had not changed Jamies riding posotion, that to me seems remarably like a complaint as he was not happy (dissatisfied) with the situation.

 

care of Dictonary.com : Complaint To express feelings of pain, dissatisfaction, or resentment.

 

 

The point i was making was Riding order needs to be looked at not only on the riders average but also their experiance (number of meetings) and age, Westercoff is still in his teens (16?) and is a fine rider is it fair for him to be riding at number 5 when other teams have the likes of Mark Burrows (ex premier league and a tad older than his teens) at number 5. In other words Youth V Experiance.

 

Also i wasn't the one who started the childish "engage you brain....." Hmmm who was that??? Maybe i didn't explain what i ment properly but it doesn't mean you can be insulting.

[Top Cat]

Seems to me that you are guessing what happened in the pits at Newport. Jamie doesn't have to ride at No.5 he can ride anywhere in the top five at 1,2,3,4 or 5, it is up to Newport to place him where they see fit. So the riding order doesn't need looking at!

 

Malcolm didn't complain he stated a fact that Westacott could not ride at reserve.

 

Now answer my question, what other examples do you have about the CL not running properly?

[dtc]

Jamie doesn't have to ride at No.5 he can ride anywhere in the top five at 1,2,3,4 or 5, it is up to Newport to place him where they see fit. So the riding order doesn't need looking at!

My point is that Riders with lots of experiace like Burrows from what i can remember of seeing him a good rider should not be riding the same position ie heat leader as Westercoff who is relativly young and inexperianced. The rules need to be nuged to incorporate experiance as well as ability.

 

 

As for where CL is going wrong:

 

i Last year Andy Smith as rider/Coach for oxford.

ii If the CL is suposed to be a British deveopment league why have riders such as Karlis Ezergailis (an Auzzie) riding in it? Nothing against the lad he is good and has potantial. But why is he not in the Austrailian equivelant.

iii Teams like Mildenhall who could with the team they have now beat the lower PL teams (Yes i do mean Newport) are still at that leval.

iv Lack of funds from BPSA, when wimbledon nearly folded a season or so ago because the track had to be re-layed the BPSA and the SCB should have had cheque books at the ready.

[Vince]

As for where CL is going wrong:

 

i    Last year Andy Smith as rider/Coach for oxford.

ii  If the CL is suposed to be a  British deveopment league why have riders such as Karlis Ezergailis (an Auzzie) riding in it? Nothing against the lad he is good and has potantial. But why is he not in the Austrailian equivelant.

iii  Teams like Mildenhall  who could with the team they have now beat the lower PL teams (Yes i do mean Newport) are still at that leval.

iv  Lack of funds from BPSA, when wimbledon nearly folded a season or so ago because the track had to be re-layed the BPSA and the SCB should have had cheque books at the ready.

1. I think the Andy Smith thing was a one off and is unlikely to be repeated. It was pretty ridiculous though.

2. As far as I know there is no Australian equivelant and it is very difficult for them to get enough meetings to progress. Again it's not the ideal but if a lad of that age is willing to leave home and travel half way round the world to try and make the grade in his chosen sport it would be harsh to deny him the chance.

3. Mildenhall might be the strongest team in the league but they would have no chance against any Premier team away from home without strengthening their team. Until the rules change to restrict the team strengths the stand alone teams will continue to employ the best riders they can to ensure they get decent crowds. A point limit may well benefit them as well by reducing their costs.

4. Wouldn't that be like Safeways and Tesco's paying into a fund in order to get Sainsbury's out of trouble?

 

The League isn't perfect and there are changes I would like to see (as in my earlier post) but it is still a decent product overall considering the wide range of riders and teams it has to accomodate.

 

The problem with getting a major manufacturer involved is that none of them make a suitable engine or even anything that could be easily converted. They all run flywheels that are very light compared to speedway bikes and there isnt room in the cases to make them heavy enough as far as I know. If it could be done it would be great as a modern 4 stroke motocross bike can run all season with no more than a change of oil, they do produce about 30% less power which wouldn't be a bad thing but the lack of flywheel weight would make them pretty unrideable.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Vince

[cd_fanboy]

first off i would like to state that im a relative newbie to the sport and ergo do not actually know how the leauges work but from what i gather teams dont shift from one to another!?

 

maybe (if they dont already) they should be more like the football leauges where the top two go up and the bottom two go down

 

Just my opinion but then the teams may be better matched and we could get some truly great races

[SCB]

Promotion has been tried and it does not work. It's a financial thing, football has better sponsorship, speedway doesn't.

[fireblade]

Perhpas with the addition of tracks like Scunthorpe, St Eval, sittingbourne, Plymouth etc, we could have the League for stand alone teams and the Trophy for second string teams.

 

Youngsters could then ride for two different teams gaining experience on two different tracks and each club can then follow their own agenda.

[Sean]

with you on that Fb... about time the stand alones were grouped into a third division, there must be enough now to make a good third division.. lets see..

 

Boston, Buxton, Carmathen, Mildenhall, Wimbledon, Weymouth, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Sittingbourne,

 

thats nine, and only one less than the elite.. run with a A&B fixture set up like the Elite and bingo.. 16 meetings plus individs and k o cup.. maybe a trophy like the PL at the start of the season, north and south to make up the season and away we go..

 

far too simple for the BSPA to work out thou i am afraid!!

[Bryn]

with you on that Fb... about time the stand alones were grouped into a third division, there must be enough now to make a good third division.. lets see..

 

Boston, Buxton, Carmathen, Mildenhall, Wimbledon, Weymouth, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Sittingbourne,

 

thats nine, and only one less than the elite.. run with a A&B fixture set up like the Elite and bingo.. 16 meetings plus individs and k o cup.. maybe a trophy like the PL at the start of the season, north and south to make up the season and away we go..

 

far too simple for the BSPA to work out thou i am afraid!!

Fine....in theory! BUT, would it be a viable proposition for some of those clubs Sean?

[Sean]

Not while Morrish is still there at the Helm Bryn... means he will have to do something wouldn't it!

 

and when the CL Chairmans meeting isn't held until 6 weeks before the season starts.. what chance of any changes..

 

when Its so much easier for them just to say.....

 

"just carry on as we are..we haven't got the time.. its only the CL for christs sake!"

 

what chance have we got of getting anything changed!

 

my thoughts.. time for a pull away league..

[Bryn]

Mmmm....quite how would that work Sean? Are you talking about a league working completely outside the framework of the BSPA / SCB? If so it would hardly be likely to attract young prospects who have set their sights on becoming full time professional speedway riders I would have thought.

 

It might attract riders at the end of their career looking to make a few bucks it suppose

[Sean]

i was thinking more along the lines of an amateur league, where smaller clubs could get started and build up riders and fans bases, before deciding to go professional.

 

kind of like the CL now.. but along the lines of grasstrack where clubs have differing classes. cadet, youth and senior.

 

not all clubs need to be professional. think of the chances of getting maybe Lottery grants and financial backing with Youth policies and youth racing, if the "Club" wasn't professionally linked to a league.

 

i am not talking about breaking away and taking say half the riders now from any league and starting a "league". i am thinking away from the professional scene and taking the amateur and youth away from the BSPA.

 

i know they are making the right moves with the U15's , but its too little.. too late in my view..

 

Bryn.. i am thinking along the lines of "sidewinders" in Australia. i don't know too much about the place, but i believe it is the training school kind of thing for Australia.

do they have any professional meetings?

If not.. how do they survive without gate reciepts?

[Barney Rabbit]

with you on that Fb...  about time the stand alones were grouped into a third division, there must be enough now to make a good third division.. lets see..

 

Boston, Buxton, Carmathen, Mildenhall, Wimbledon, Weymouth, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Sittingbourne,

 

thats nine, and only one less than the elite.. run with a A&B fixture set up like the Elite and bingo.. 16 meetings plus individs and k o cup.. maybe a trophy like the PL at the start of the season, north and south to make up the season and away we go..

 

far too simple for the BSPA to work out thou i am afraid!!

Fine....in theory! BUT, would it be a viable proposition for some of those clubs Sean?

I suggested this on a thread in the Conference League section a couple of months or so ago and was informed that this could result in Buxton being unable to operate. So I think you might be right Bryn!