Guest richcovbee Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 i understand that they are cutting the grand prix numbers down so that only the best riders end up competing. I believe they are trying to reduce the wild cards and also loose some of the lesser known riders. in my view this should make the grand prix better. A top class field is what every speedway fan wants to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Having less GP riders should benefit British speedway as there will be less fixture disruption. Teams with no or one GP riders could ride on Friday nights if they wished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 i understand that they are cutting the grand prix numbers down so that only the best riders end up competing. I believe they are trying to reduce the wild cards and also loose some of the lesser known riders. in my view this should make the grand prix better. A top class field is what every speedway fan wants to see Whilst I can see where you are coming from I must admit I felt the Cardiff GP was greatly enhanced by the performance of Dave Norris - a wildcard! Â I'd say good racing is what every speedway fan wants to see - thats not necessarily the same thing as a top class field (although obviously that helps!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Stranger Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I like the idea of a series of 20 heat GP rounds where each rider gets an equal number of rides. Personally I dislike the elimination system. It hardly seems fair that some riders travel long distances to ride just two races (& end up out of pocket too), and supporters of a particular rider also travelling abroad to see him in two or three races only. Â I'm not one of those in favour of a one-off world final, as I don't believe that the best rider in the world becomes WC with that system. Luck plays too big a part in it - a rider may not be able to compete if he's out injured at that particular time, or a rider may be riding with an injury or illness. Â IMO if they run a series of 20 heats each round, where every rider meets each other it would be the fairest way to find the real World Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I'm not one of those in favour of a one-off world final, as I don't believe that the best rider in the world becomes WC with that system. Luck plays too big a part in it - a rider may not be able to compete if he's out injured at that particular time, or a rider may be riding with an injury or illness. Â IMO if they run a series of 20 heats each round, where every rider meets each other it would be the fairest way to find the real World Champion. A rider can`t compete in a GP or 2 if he is out injured as well and that leaves the door open for someone who wins few if any GP`s to win the title Its the same with the system where a rider only has to win one heat all night to be the winner,as long as its the final Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I have to say I enjoy the current KO system, it is obvious BSI want to cut costs and get rid of 8 of the "also rans". All we need to do now is do away with the system of behind closed doors nominating of riders for the series and go back to the idea of riders qualifying for the GP on the track, surely the only way to do it. The reason there are 8 "also rans" is due to the qualifying system which takes place on all sorts of strange tracks across europe.  Getting rid of the qualifying system will mean far less riders missing league meetings and or getting injured. They will also save the riders wasted trips / money for which they get very little back trying to work their way to the final. They will be picked purely on their league performances in England, Sweden and Poland which will mean more effort and commitment to their teams if they want to be picked by BSI.  Only 16 riders in the GP's will also mean less disruption to the leagues and each rider will be able to get paid more money which was always one of the reasons many riders struggled when in the GP series.  I suspect the top 8 will remain in the GP's each year with 2 slots left for local wildcards to keep the local crowds interested. The remaining 6 permanent wildcards will be chosen on league performance.  How about BSI choose 16 potential permanent wildcards each year and hold one or two race offs in the afternoon of specific GP race days on the GP track with the top 6 getting places in the next years series and the other finishing positions deciding reserve orders. They could charge us punters a small fee to watch the event and everything would already be in place for the event so no extra expenses. The riders that could actually ride the tracks used in the GP series would be the ones to qualify rather than those that can ride a couple of tracks in outer Mongolia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 What a shame if they revert to the old 20 heats, two semis and a final. The current setup is excellent. Sudden death, two thirds and your out brings early excitment to a meeting and the 20 heat formula cannot acheive this at all. Â keep it as it is I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 They find something that really works well, so they change it. The trouble is that the current format isn't working well. There aren't enough quality riders at the moment, and the Pre-Main Event is just a waste of space. You also have the problem that riders only have to finish second in each race to progress, and often attempt to manipulate their positions in order to get a favourable gate in their next heat. Â The other problem with having 24 riders are that you have to pay out more prize money, and it makes non-European GPs prohibitively expensive. I also suspect that by scrapping the qualifying rounds and reducing the number of riders, it'll persuade British speedway not to take the decision to ban them. If that happened, I imagine a number of riders would withdraw because the SGP certainly doesn't pay enough for riders to ride in full-time. Â The knockout format was a good experiment, but I think it's well and truly run its course now. I think the proposed new format is the standard 20 heats followed by knockout Semi-Finals and Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 So you could still fail to win a race all evening and win the final then! Unless they going to do things like carry over race points etc etc, which will become very complicated, particularly for casual observers. Â Speedway die-hards like the people on this forum may well know and love the old 20 heat formula, but part of the beauty of the current format is the KO formula makes it relatively easy to understand and exciting to non-fans. I do agree, though, that the pre-main event races can drag a bit. Â Maybe the previously mentioned idea of reversing the race formula would at least bring it to a bit of a climax though, bearing in mind they ride in World Ranking order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhaines Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 How about BSI choose 16 potential permanent wildcards each year and hold one or two race offs in the afternoon of specific GP race days on the GP track with the top 6 getting places in the next years series and the other finishing positions deciding reserve orders. They could charge us punters a small fee to watch the event and everything would already be in place for the event so no extra expenses.The riders that could actually ride the tracks used in the GP series would be the ones to qualify rather than those that can ride a couple of tracks in outer Mongolia. That's a pretty cool idea. Prehaps less than 16 though. It could have say 8-10 potential wildcards with a kind of race-off system just before the normal heat 1. With the top 1/2 going into the meeting proper and the next 2 going in as meeting reserves (with 20 heat formula there will probably be reserves) Â Having these local riders wouldn't cost much extra as they would belocal, would give the fans some extra value for money, also give people a chance to look at some riders we don't normally see and even allow riders to put themselves in the shop window for a team place in one of the big leagues. Â Obviously if they want to try and move the series to non-speedway nations then this is not possible as there would be no local riders, but would work for the current rounds. Â I'm pretty sure i have seen a similar format for Swedish championships(?) Where there is a pre-meeting race-off series to determine the final two placings in the meeting proper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Also in the Longtrack GP series i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conkers Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 EDIT: Ice racing system is different, and it sucks  Can you elaborate?  Is it Ice racing or the World championship Method used in Ice Racing that Sucks?  (I understand that the reason they don't use the Knock-out heat format used in the Speedway GP is that it is copyright to Ole Olsen. They do use the old GP knockout method culminating with an A & B final in some individual meetings, but they run the FIM 20 heats and 4 finals system in the World Championship. The bottom line is that there isn't as much money in Ice Racing so travelling across the frozen wastes of Russia to get two rides a day would mean a lot of riders wouldn't do it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rob carpenter Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I think this is a brilliant idea. Going back to old Skool. How wild cards are they going to be, hopefully only 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 That's a pretty cool idea. Prehaps less than 16 though. It could have say 8-10 potential wildcards with a kind of race-off system just before the normal heat 1. With the top 1/2 going into the meeting proper and the next 2 going in as meeting reserves (with 20 heat formula there will probably be reserves) Thats not really what I meant but may not be a bad idea either! Â I was suggesting the 16 riders (chosen on their league preformances) took part before each grand prix to score points throughout the year. The top 6 would then qualify for the following years GP series rather than ride in the main event. Â Maybe the two ideas could be combined? The 16 "wanna be" riders race before each GP for points with the top 6 at the end of the year going through to the following years GP series full time. Â They would join the top 8 finishers in the main series from the previous year. Â The winner of the 16 "wanna be" riders at each GP could also be invited to take part in the GP that night along with one local wild card pre picked by BSI as they do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCedarMan Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 (edited) why not remove the first part of the existing system and run only the main event, 16 riders - 8 GP's (1-8 in the world) 2 - Wildcards and six places to qualifiers or wildcards for riders who would have qualified but have been injured etc.. Â or is this to simple Edited June 27, 2004 by TheCedarMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhaines Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 why not remove the first part of the existing system and run only the main event, 16 riders - 8 GP's (1-8 in the world) 2 - Wildcards and six places to qualifiers or wildcards for riders who would have qualified but have been injured etc.. Â or is this to simple That leaves you with just 13 heats (or 16 if you had an A,B,C & D Final) Â Perhaps run two rounds per GP, similar to what is done in things like BTCC. Which would result in 26 heats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 What a shame if they revert to the old 20 heats, two semis and a final. The current setup is excellent. Sudden death, two thirds and your out brings early excitment to a meeting and the 20 heat formula cannot acheive this at all. keep it as it is I say. Agreed...nothing more to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Can you elaborate?  Is it Ice racing or the World championship Method used in Ice Racing that Sucks?  (I understand that the reason they don't use the Knock-out heat format used in the Speedway GP is that it is copyright to Ole Olsen. They do use the old GP knockout method culminating with an A & B final in some individual meetings, but they run the FIM 20 heats and 4 finals system in the World Championship. The bottom line is that there isn't as much money in Ice Racing so travelling across the frozen wastes of Russia to get two rides a day would mean a lot of riders wouldn't do it.) The system. Alltough I already edited my post once, I came to realize it still wasn't what I was after.  I've been thinking about this for some time now, and to me the best one at the moment seems to be the one they use(d?) in ELRC. 20 heats, after which 2 best to the final, and numbers 3-6 ride for 2 more slots in the final. That way the best 2 get the benefits of a good meeting, and they dont have to face elimination in a semifinal. The current GP system is OK, but I see no point in riding d,c and b finals like they do in Ice Racing GP's. Why bother with a d-final, when everyone has had a fair chance of qualifying for THE A-final?  Generaölly about Ice racing, I do find it a bit boring. I cant understand why people call speedway scalextric, but I sort of get the idea when it comes to ice racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfromcov Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 i think it should be a combination of both. 20 permanate riders and 4 wild cards the top 8 do not compete in the first section. Â you are left with the bottom 12 plus the four wild cards. Â these are reduced to 8 by the present GP method, ie two strikes and your out. Â these 8 and the top 8 then ride the traditional 20 heat system, with all points counting as GP. Â then the top 4 race of for the final, 10 pts for a win 5 for second 3 for third 0 for last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stats Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 This is taken from the FIM site.  Individual Speedway World Championship: There will be no qualifying system to the Speedway Grand Prix as from 2005. The riders will be qualified according to their previous year’s classification or nominated by the Speedway Grand Prix Commission in accordance with the promoter. As from 2005, the Speedway Grand Prix Series will be run with 16 riders instead of the current 24. The prizemoney will stay about the same as now, making it more interesting for the riders.  Speedway World Cup: the final tournament will be held with 8 National teams (instead of 12), in two qualifying Events, one Race-Off and the Final; all events will be run with 4 teams (instead of 5), and 4 riders in each heat. Consequently, a second pre-qualifying round has been added to the calendar.  Team Speedway Junior World Championship: introduced as from 2005, competition for national teams: 4 teams from different nations will compete in each meeting. The organiser of a qualifying meeting or Final (if there is no qualifying meeting) of this Championship is guaranteed its national Team competing in this meeting. The participants must be of the same nationality as the FMN that has nominated them; the limit for the minimum age is 16 years, and maximum age is 21 (see Medical Code).  Sidecar Speedway Gold Trophy 1000cc: introduced as from 2005, competition for Sidecar teams. 16, 20 or 24 teams (plus 2 substitutes) will compete in each meeting – Race format: heats will consist of 4 laps. Competition with 4 sidecar teams per heat, total 16 outfits, 20 qualifying heats, two semi-finals and one final. Competition with 5 sidecar teams per heat, total 20 outfits: 16 qualifying heats, two semi-finals and one final. Competition with 6 sidecar teams per heat, total 24 outfits: 16 qualifying heats, two semi-finals and one final. Technical: Control: after the rider has finished all his heats, all machines must be immediately placed in a closed park where they must remain for 30 minutes in case of a protest or should further examination be required. Any form of working on or removing parts from the accepted machines is strictly forbidden (2005). – Additional rules for 1000cc Speedway Sidecar motorcycles (Art. 01.85).- Ice Racing, dimensions of spikes: maximum length of the spike, measured from the flat top surface of the fastening plate: 28 mm; maximum thickness of the fastening plate: 6 mm; maximum diameter on the top of the fastening plate: 15 mm; maximum diameter on the base of the fastening plate: no limit; spikes must be made from solid steel only; the tubular gauge must have a maximum internal diameter of 15 mm (unchanged). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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