German Speedway Fan Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 @ Racer X Why do you think that Smolinskis Chances look very limited, He won the Qualifying round at Abensberg and finished 2nd in Wiener Neustadt. I think he won't get 1st, 2nd or 3rd but maybe 5th or 6th.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 @ Racer X Why do you think that Smolinskis Chances look very limited, He won the Qualifying round at Abensberg and finished 2nd in Wiener Neustadt. I think he won't get 1st, 2nd or 3rd but maybe 5th or 6th.... I don't mean to do Smolinski down - far from it - to me he is the out and out discovery of the U-21s this year and would be high on my "wanted" list if I was a Promoter! Beating Lindback in the qualifiers was a cracking result. However his limited experience and lack of Polish / British regular action will count against him I would say, but I would be happy for him to prove me wrong. I would say the top eight would contain at least four Poles, Bjerre, Lindback, Lindgren. Schlein should be there too but doesn't seem to be making the impression I thought he would. I have to say that Smolinski does tend to do well in the finals though - if he makes the final cut he has a good chance of a top placing. Good luck to him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garf Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I don't think you can rule any Pole out of the competition as long they are allowed the "very tough, almost dirty, riding" which they all seem to be practicing for the moment. Furthermore the final is in Poland, which do put on a lot of preassure on the referee as well. Hopefully there will be a strong ref. with a very strong sense of fairness. Actually I think that to make a good result in the final, KB has to stay out of trouble with the Poles during the final, and then just be as fast as possible, which means that he has to be on the "safe" side of the opponents away from the fence. Are you suggesting that the Polish riders will get favourable treatment Garf and that they will be "dirty" when you talk about being on the "safe side"? I don't think it matters where the final is being held. If a rider is good enough to win it they will. I just believes that it takes a very strong referee to have the guts to exclude any Pole in a situation of any doubt. Meetings in Poland are usually watched by very many people, which might put a lot of preassure on the referee. I have seen a few matches with poles in, and funny enough they are seldomly passed on the outside. I believe the riders don't dare to as they might get "fenced" then. Regarding your last remark, I'll say you are right, but only if and when the referees on the track is strong persons being able to put themselves through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenn Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Schlein should be there too but doesn't seem to be making the impression I thought he would. To be fair he is suffering with a injury atm! by the time of the final he should be fully fit again and ready to show what he can really do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I don't think it matters where the final is being held. If a rider is good enough to win it they will. How naive Yes the best riders should win it but IMO, they don't always. The best ride ron the day wins it. A reasonable rider can put together good starts and they're World Champion, does not make them "the" best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 A reasonable rider can put together good starts and they're World Champion, The name Egon Muller springs to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight_Lady Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Ahhh but I never said the "best" rider SCB. Read carefully. Like most individual meetings the rider who does it on the day wins. That is not being naive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stanclrules Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 A reasonable rider can put together good starts and they're World Champion, The name Egon Muller springs to mind On international level I'd say u're right, but he has never been far off the pace... don't forget, he has never ridden in a professional speedway league, but on german level he was THE best, there was, is, and will ever be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjasica Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 I don't think you can rule any Pole out of the competition as long they are allowed the "very tough, almost dirty, riding" which they all seem to be practicing for the moment. Furthermore the final is in Poland, which do put on a lot of preassure on the referee as well. Hopefully there will be a strong ref. with a very strong sense of fairness. Actually I think that to make a good result in the final, KB has to stay out of trouble with the Poles during the final, and then just be as fast as possible, which means that he has to be on the "safe" side of the opponents away from the fence. Are you suggesting that the Polish riders will get favourable treatment Garf and that they will be "dirty" when you talk about being on the "safe side"? I don't think it matters where the final is being held. If a rider is good enough to win it they will. Over the last few years Poles have won the U21 away from Poland. But to say that they are riding dirty is unfair, considering that the consences is that Danes are riding unfair. NP is world champion at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Munchie Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Yes I know Swiderski also rides for Wroclaw but I wouldn't say he is at the same standard as Miskowiak and is a long way behind the likes of Kolodziej, Zagar and Lindback, so I just this Miskowiak will make better use of the track advantage. As for a Dane complaining about the Poles and Home track advantage, well take a look at yourselves, you're the wolds best at preparing the track to suit yourselves. The Danish GP this year is a perfect example, funny how for the first few heats the outside gates were brilliant...oh and who was is theose gates....oh yeah, the Danes. As soon as the main event started suddenly the inside gates started working better and suprise, suprise, the Danes were on the inside. Personaly I think that the final will be between Zagar and Kolodziej, and if Antonio has a good day he could be in with a shout too. If Antonio can't win then I'll be routing for Matej as I think he's a fantastic rider and a potential world champion. I followed him when he rode for Trelawny and now he's at Reading I make regular trips to see him. Plus this year is his last chance in this competition, so it would be nice if he could go out with a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Yes I know Swiderski also rides for Wroclaw but I wouldn't say he is at the same standard as Miskowiak and is a long way behind the likes of Kolodziej, Zagar and Lindback, so I just this Miskowiak will make better use of the track advantage. As for a Dane complaining about the Poles and Home track advantage, well take a look at yourselves, you're the wolds best at preparing the track to suit yourselves. The Danish GP this year is a perfect example, funny how for the first few heats the outside gates were brilliant...oh and who was is theose gates....oh yeah, the Danes. As soon as the main event started suddenly the inside gates started working better and suprise, suprise, the Danes were on the inside. Personaly I think that the final will be between Zagar and Kolodziej, and if Antonio has a good day he could be in with a shout too. If Antonio can't win then I'll be routing for Matej as I think he's a fantastic rider and a potential world champion. I followed him when he rode for Trelawny and now he's at Reading I make regular trips to see him. Plus this year is his last chance in this competition, so it would be nice if he could go out with a win. Swiderski isn't the same standard as Janusz? Well he might be at Wroclaw where Janusz didn't get a point in May. He's back in early August at Wroclaw so we ought to get an idea of whether this is going to be a "bogey" circuit for him then. As far as Swiderski being a long way behind Janusz - dunno haven't seen him ride but the stats don't suggest a big gap. Swiderski 6.41 - Miskowiak 7.77 (but a lower average than Swiderski at Wroclaw!) - Janusz Kolodziej 7.59. There's not too much difference there I would say. But, Crazy Munchie, it would seem we both want the same winners. Matej Zagar is a class touch and an undoubted future GP regular in my book. I think he'll go all the way and I think Bjerre, Lindback and Kolodziej will too. Schlein can also join then on top form, but I would make Bjerre the favourite. He has top class experience everywhere and the formbook says Dane! Go Matej! (or Janusz!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whacko Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Kenneth Bjerre will cruise to an easy win, undoubtably the best rider in the under 21s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whacko Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Schlein should be there too but doesn't seem to be making the impression I thought he would. To be fair he is suffering with a injury atm! by the time of the final he should be fully fit again and ready to show what he can really do! excuses, excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 A reasonable rider can put together good starts and they're World Champion, The name Egon Muller springs to mind I think you mean Egon Mueller,who was tipped as an outside bet for the title on a number of occasions.most of the experts and riders knew if Egon got going he would be hard to beat.I think one year he had 8 or 9 points after 3 rides,then the rain came and he didn`t cope well with the conditions.I think there was always a bit of a problem in Britain with Egon because he managed to be a top rider without commiting himself to the British League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whacko Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 egon was a modern day fonz and rory schlien is just crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight_Lady Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 rory schlien is just crap. Talking of crap look at your spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimbledonwomble Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 QUOTE (Kevin Hammond @ Jul 27 2004, 11:10 PM) QUOTE (SCB @ Jul 27 2004, 08:36 PM) A reasonable rider can put together good starts and they're World Champion, The name Egon Muller springs to mind I think you mean Egon Mueller,who was tipped as an outside bet for the title on a number of occasions.most of the experts and riders knew if Egon got going he would be hard to beat.I think one year he had 8 or 9 points after 3 rides,then the rain came and he didn`t cope well with the conditions.I think there was always a bit of a problem in Britain with Egon because he managed to be a top rider without commiting himself to the British League. Dont worry about it Kevin everyone knows who you mean and you can spell it Muller if you had a German keyboard with the Umlauts dot over the 'u' as Iris has done on another thread. http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=11050 Whichever way you spell it, he was just another rider who managed to 'fluke one' basically as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjasica Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Yes I know Swiderski also rides for Wroclaw but I wouldn't say he is at the same standard as Miskowiak and is a long way behind the likes of Kolodziej, Zagar and Lindback, so I just this Miskowiak will make better use of the track advantage. As for a Dane complaining about the Poles and Home track advantage, well take a look at yourselves, you're the wolds best at preparing the track to suit yourselves. The Danish GP this year is a perfect example, funny how for the first few heats the outside gates were brilliant...oh and who was is theose gates....oh yeah, the Danes. As soon as the main event started suddenly the inside gates started working better and suprise, suprise, the Danes were on the inside. Personaly I think that the final will be between Zagar and Kolodziej, and if Antonio has a good day he could be in with a shout too. If Antonio can't win then I'll be routing for Matej as I think he's a fantastic rider and a potential world champion. I followed him when he rode for Trelawny and now he's at Reading I make regular trips to see him. Plus this year is his last chance in this competition, so it would be nice if he could go out with a win. Swiderski isn't the same standard as Janusz? Well he might be at Wroclaw where Janusz didn't get a point in May. He's back in early August at Wroclaw so we ought to get an idea of whether this is going to be a "bogey" circuit for him then. As far as Swiderski being a long way behind Janusz - dunno haven't seen him ride but the stats don't suggest a big gap. Swiderski 6.41 - Miskowiak 7.77 (but a lower average than Swiderski at Wroclaw!) - Janusz Kolodziej 7.59. There's not too much difference there I would say. But, Crazy Munchie, it would seem we both want the same winners. Matej Zagar is a class touch and an undoubted future GP regular in my book. I think he'll go all the way and I think Bjerre, Lindback and Kolodziej will too. Schlein can also join then on top form, but I would make Bjerre the favourite. He has top class experience everywhere and the formbook says Dane! Go Matej! (or Janusz!) I have watched a bit of Swiderski this season on TV, and I must say the lad is not a bad gater. He doesnt always come first, but he is always in the 2nd & third places. Whereas Miskowiak has more wins. Kolodziej will win a lot or come last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garf Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 The Danish GP this year is a perfect example, funny how for the first few heats the outside gates were brilliant...oh and who was is theose gates....oh yeah, the Danes. As soon as the main event started suddenly the inside gates started working better and suprise, suprise, the Danes were on the inside. Aaahhhhh come on ! Don't eat all these "sour grapes", they goes to the brain and from there through the keyboard to my screen. . What about the other riders gating from the same positions ? Did they do well or . . . . . ? You can't say that the Wild Cards wasn't riding superb. I think KB is a quite good bet as the new U/21 World Champ, and if not then in the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Whichever way you spell it, he was just another rider who managed to 'fluke one' basically as you suggest. Egon a "reasonable rider" All part of Britain not being able to get to grips with the brave new world where without Wembley stadium they were going to have to join the queue alongside Amsterdam and Vojens and even a track in Germany.You just have to look back in old speedway stars or even better ask some of the best riders at the time like Mauger,Olsen or Collins and they will tell you that in Germany where Müller chose to base his career he was one of the best,and over a long period.As soon as Germany were given the right to hold the final it was pretty sure that Egon was going to be in with a very good chance.He was basically a fore runner of the top stars of today who choose not to ride in Britain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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