Local Boy

Before attempting to attract any audience perhaps you should think about how you retain an audience. One way is to apply my wife's barometer of acceptability of a venue i.e. will we eat there/go there again/use it for functions? She applies a simple approach: "What are the condition/standard of the toilets?" If they pass this acceptability test they are in;if not they are out. This approach is based on the view that if an organisation keeps their toilets in order everything else is probably in order. Now apply that approach to the speedway stadiums of the UK and ask yourself a simple question would you use their lavs or would you do your best to hang on until you get home? Today, people young or old, will not put up with lousy facilities! Fix the fundamentals first.

Probably because so many clubs have been sloppy in their approach to employing immigrants! What people always miss about speedway is the clubs are independent businesses that can take or leave BSPA "advice" and often they seem to do exactly that. If the BSPA appointed an independent adviser then for the vast majority it has worked;it seems to only be a few clubs that have screwed up.

The passing the buck hypocrisy of blaming a "high ranking officials". They need to grow some and accept they screwed up by believing they could cheat the system. Instead we will have a stack of people trying to work out who that high ranking official is. The oldest trick in the book; screw up and point the finger elsewhere! I notice they don't have the cojones to blame the BSPA, the usual direction in which the finger is pointed; which begs the question did they seek or ignore the advice of the BSPA?

Is it though? As I understand it Roynon was sacked so Proctor could be employed. I have to tell you there is no way a Visa would be issued with the agreement of the authorities in that scenario. A foreigner replacing a British employee has to have a really strong argument behind it with the justification usually being unique skills/experience etc for that to happen. Therefore if Sheffield authorised his Visa I reckon they were in trouble from that moment on. If he was riding on a Visa issued by another employer that also has it's issues as I understand it isn't a straight transfer as such. Was he racing for an Elite parent club last year or something like that? I'll ask the wife she used to get all sorts of Johnny Foreigners in to the country to work in her industry; but they could clearly demonstrate unique job requirements/skills.

My point is that if Sheffield have known of a problem for 12 months, it sound like his work pattern did not match the work permit. i.e. there was a problem with him using that work permit to ride for Sheffield; if there wasn't a problem then Sheffield wouldn't have "known" their was a problem for 12 months. I hope this follows logically. Therefore if the problem was that the work permit didn't allow him to work for Sheffield, then there is an argument that his points should be deducted. What other sort of problem could there be that has brought this sad situation about? Lets not forget a Brit was put out of work to accommodate an immigrant; in any other profession most people would be going ballistic about that fact alone! Perhaps that is the "known" problem?

Yes you are correct. The point to be made is that plenty are shipped out on a few hours notice where they have breached or overstayed their visa. It happens all the time; in this instance I get the feeling that Sheffield and Proctor should have been aware for a long time that they were in breach, as employee and employer, of the regulations. Another post indicates they have known of this issue for a year and the "few hours notice" is in effect the final act of a long process; if they appealed they probably would have extended this process. They appear to have have not appealed. The interesting aspect of this is if Proctor has been working illegally/overstayed his visa, or whatever, who at the BSPA has the balls to deduct his point from all of the fixtures he's ridden in? In most other sport an incorrectly registered competitor means huge penalties for the club concerned and you can't get more incorrect than a visa breach! The final point to be made is that old Commonwealth Citizens are not British Citizens; we didn't want them all coming over in the 1970's (not quite true the "white ones who looked like us" were okay so we let them in if their parents/grandparents were born in Britain). The result is what we see here; nothing to do with the EU or any other immigrant visitors; everything to do with our small minded little islander mentality!

He will not have been given a few hours; there is always a right to appeal if you choose to spend the money and go down that route. However if you have no case why would you appeal? You should read more plenty are given a few hours notice; usually after a long process of argument and counter argument.

Read your first post, it was crass. Don't know who you are; your sex and don't particularly care. If you felt that strongly you should have posted yourself rather than rely on others.

Most of your comments are irrelevant and inaccurate in this post. Wasn't this a foreign national who was recruited to the Sheffield side last year and in doing so Sheffield put a British rider out of work; I think you'll find that is a breach of the rules - it ain't rocket science; you cannot do that. The new promotion at Sheffield clearly got it wrong and the fall out has now hit home. The employer is always responsible for obtaining the employees work permit; I don't think the employer is the BSPA in this case?

Shock horror; forum member can't be arsed to start a thread on something he purports to care about; so slags off forum members for not starting a thread on something he purports to care about. In other news man; with a broken remote control on the TV slags off his wife for not getting off her backside to change channels; he cites this and her refusal to cut up his food before eating it as grounds for divorce!

You're not great at comprehension are you; I wasn't there; yet I can understand that the condition of Rusty must have been bad for the Doctor to ask for quiet. You were there; witnessed the accident yet cannot accept there may have been a need, for the riders well being, for the gap in communication!

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to work out that the Doctor must have considered that Rusty was very poorly and at some risk if he asked for quiet so that he could monitor him properly. To someone who wasn't even there to witness how bad the accident was, that statement sends a long and clear message about the condition the Doctor found his patient in! Your comment is churlish at best.

I think you've done that rather well.

To be fair; I don't know you so cannot label you as a racist or anything else. I do believe your comments leave you open to attack though, if people read your comment as racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever there is a presumption that this is a reflection of your character and that process of presumption can be as discriminatory as stereotyping and scapegoating!

Unfortunately many people make racist comments without necessarily being racists in their interaction with others on a day to day basis; particularly those of the older generation. Problems always arise when stereotyping and in this country we have a bad habit of doing that. The comments made about Bulgarians and Romanians are ignorant and unwarranted. They are being used as scapegoats; as are the disabled; the unemployed and young people who can't get jobs (because there aren't any for them). All of these groups have been targeted by the political right wing politicians and media to distract from the awful job they are doing running the country and the brilliant job they are doing robbing the low paid to make the rich richer. It is no wonder that posters on this type of site believe it is acceptable to make inaccurate, discriminatory and racist comments; we live in an era that positively encourages it. My father and grand father fought to prevent this sort of crap; yet it is now being allowed to develop because it is politically expedient to let it do so. "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" As the old quote says! The argument about "PC bullies" is horse manure; PC only exists in the minds of those who want the right to say what they like, without the responsibilities that go with free speech.

If I screw up in my job it's my responsibility; the promoters have screwed up; it's their responsibility. A few seem to be doing the British thing and looking for a convenient scapegoat. The promoters are the employers and the employers apply for a Visa; to do that they must be certain that the prospective employee meets all the criteria. The process isn't about having a punt to see if you can get away with it; well at least its not meant to be!

It is not their job to question the submission of the employer i.e. the promoter. If the promoter says its legal; its legal! What do you not understand about all of this being the Employers responsibility, that is the law? If a submission is not legal the promoter should not have tried to push it through should they? The issue seems to be about competence of the employer does it not?

We are all obliged to follow the law of the land whether we have had training or not. Most other industries employ immigration lawyers to ensure they don't screw up.

The BSPA are not the employer; it is the promoter. If a promoter misleads the BSPA by telling them that a request for a Visa is in order that is down to the promotion not the BSPA. If it was anything other than that then the "site" visits would have started and finished in Rugby; instead it would appear that every promotion has had a knock on the door. You assume the Promoters care if it is illegal or not; clearly some don't; all they care about is numbers through the turnstiles and a winning team. I don't believe the major issue is doubling up or guests; its people who should not be working here in the first place! In law this is not the BSPA's responsibility it is the individual promoter. If they don't like it they shouldn't have signed up for the gig!

The BSPA are not the employer the individual member, is therefore it is the individual members responsibility to comply with the immigration rules. If an individual member states they have complied and subsequently it is found they haven't that really isn't the BSPA's issue.

Why is it the BSPA's responsibility exactly? This problem belongs to the promotions that have clearly abused the system; it is not the Trade Associations responsibilities to monitor compliance it is the individual members responsibility. If I employ someone who requires a Visa in the City of London I can't go blaming the Financial Conduct Authority or Bank of England if I get it wrong. If a promotion want a foreign rider, who requires a Visa, to race for their team it is 100% their responsibility to follow the rules. Blaming the BSPA for this is like blaming the Iceberg for steering towards the Titanic! From what I am reading they've clearly had this coming.

My understanding is that an employer applies for a Visa. The rules used to be that any job should have been advertised in the appropriate media/geography to attract suitable applicants. This must include the appropriate media in the EU/ UK; if the employer could show that there were no suitable EU/UK applicants they could look at suitable non-UK applicants and if they found someone apply for a visa. The appropriate media obviously varies from industry to industry.

I don't see it that way; the individual clubs are the employer this is their problem. The BSPA is no more than a trade association which happens to provide a structure within which the membership chooses to trade; the membership do not have to do what the BSPA say; there may be consequences if they don't, but there is no collective responsibility each individual promotion does what the devil it likes!

So the issue is quite clearly with the individual clubs concerned (as the employer). Anyone who has a nanoseconds of knowledge on visa rule would know that. Seems like some have been getting it a bit wrong doesn't it? Otherwise they'd be hauling them all in! Any way its been good to read some of the posts where the logic basically boils down to "they are like us; so they should be allowed in"; bad news is that we all originate from Africa so everyone around the world is "like us"; unpalatable for the bigots I know

If you have to ask the question then you don't know how power is wielded in this country!