BOBBATH

Don't wanna push my luck here-but the next second half race was Matt Mattocks, Bob Pawson, , Derek Timms and Barry Chandler-do you know the result of that one and then who met Errol Brook and Ron Cooper in the second half junior final. BL 65 is correct- it wasn't in the Dudley Wood bar that I bought him a beer, but there was pub outside the stadium- I think you turned right out of the stadium walked a little way along the road then turned left onto a road which I seem to recall was on a slight rise-the pub was on the left as you went up the slight hill-it was packed that night. Does anybody remember the name of the pub, is it still there?. CH was a great place to visit (wot great sarnies)and its a goddam shame the stadium has gone. I have to remind BL65 that it was in that pub after the meeting that I bought him a beer- maybe two (although because Newport won I may have bought several people a beer). I also note in the program that there was a match race between the top scorers of CH and Newport after the KO Cup Final and before the second half. I think it was between Ivor Brown and Peter Vandenberg but don't know who won. So BL65-you never know I may one day come over and collect the beer or three that you owe me!! Wonderful days weren't they!!

BL65, that is amazing that you know the finishing order of that second half race and you will be glad to know that I have in front of me the actual program and have ceremoniously entered the finishing order in the blank spaces. Who would have thought that 53 years later I could enter the result of this race in the actual program. I bet the four guys in the race would be tickled to know that all these years later their race is being discussed-hope they are all still with us!! One question for BL 65-how did you manage to see that race as I remember you being in the bar with the rest of us-I think I may have even bought you a drink and you still owe me one.!!!!!.

I was sorry to hear that Graham died so young. As regards Errol Brook, a look thru my old programs for the meetings I attended (all of which I kept, eat your heart out all ye who didn't), I notice Errol was in a second half of the 1964 Prov. league Cup Final at good old Dudley Wood. He was in the first heat of the second half with Fred Priest, Ron Cooper and Dai Evans-Dai of course had quite a good career in the late sixties-I also recall Ron Cooper riding in second halves for a couple of seasons, and maybe appearing a few times for CH-don't know what happened to Fred Priest though. Sadly I didn't fill out the race result- I know why , I was celebrating in a bar with other Newport fans after winning the Cup by a couple of points on aggregate-wot a night!!!

I was looking at one of my old Speedway Stars from 1966. Two things caught my eye- an article by Robin Martakies on Graham Coombes predicting great things for him in 1967- does anybody know whether and where Graham is? While the prediction was incorrect as Graham never progressed from a good mid order guy-nothing wrong with , always a great trier. Think he was with Newcastle and CH maybe? Other name that popped up was Doug Dearden of Exeter- I recall him as a slightly built guy but I think he dropped out of speedway pretty soon-did he go to jail for a while? Anybody in forumland recall either or both of these gents??

Roy Trigg, Ivor Brown, Les Owen, Nigel Boocock, ,George Hunter, Charlie Monk, Martin Ashby, Chris Blewett, Chris Julian, Clive Featherby. This list may be meaningful only to those of us 65+ !!!!

Thanx BL65 for reminding me of this. Needless to say I woz there and still have the program to prove it-thank God I kept them all and my mum (RIP) shipped 'em all over to me in Canada- God bless her.. Ron How was not troubled in his 15 point max , won his first second half ride and in the final was second to Jack Biggs(who knows what arrangements were made to give the crowd a thrilling race. Wonderful memories. Great thread this-keep up the good work mate!!!

Great response BL65, was very interested re the introduction of guest riders. As they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions and while the initial restrictions made sense it developed into a total curse on the sport and I detested its use. It did nothing for the credibility of the sport. Thanks also for the discussion re the 1957 table. I guess that was the lowest time in the sport, but does anybody out there think its in even worse shape now?

Thanks BL65-didn't realise the guest rider situation was around in 1957-was that the first year they were used in the League? Maybe you were watching speedway that famous season where the NL collapsed into just one division. I know that Swindon of the second division surprisingly won it breaking the dominance of Wimbledon-if you were a spectator then assume you would have been as surprised as anyone else-what are your thoughts on how this team of Div 2 riders were able to pull it off-although I guess to be fair Halifax achieved a similar feat in 66 with a group of PL products (excepting Eric Boothroyd of course.)

Is the Bradley referred to the great Dick Bradley- I think he was riding for Soton then-was he guesting for Leicester, didn't realise they had guests in 57??

Interestingly in the 5 World Finals in which Fundin met Knutsson- BK beat Fundin 3 of those times(-one of the two he lost was when he fell trying to overtake Ove)-don't know what that signifies if anything!! In answer to Norbold I would have to give the nod to Gladstone over Rosebery. At his peak Gladstone was superfit. One of his hobbies( apart-ahem- from saving young girls from sin) was cutting down trees on his estate at Hawarden, he also had super self confidence since he knew God was on his side. Now if you matched him up against Disraeli there could be a different outcome. Disraeli had a super smooth style and was good on slippery tracks-he was also a better gater!!!

Besides my previous arcane comparison to Lord Rosebery, another reference point might be to compare Bjorn to Brian Crutcher-another rider who suffered from nerves and retired very young. As regards Bjorn, in 1965 the year he won the WF, he was not riding in UK speedway and thus was a bit off the radar compared to previous years,in fact the 1965 WF was the one and only time I saw Bjorn ride. His Swedish team was Vargarna. They toured the UK in 1966 and I saw their meeting in August at Somerton Park-but checking my program BK wasn't in that meeting. BTW-that was the only home defeat for Newport in 1965. The favourite for the 1965 title was Briggo (according to Eric Linden anyway), although Danny Carter(was he a real person BTW or one of Eric's other nom de plumes??) did pick BK. I reckon Bjorn having become World Champ. thought who needs this pressure and after one more year said "that's it for me" . he did get to the 66 WF but was troubled by machine problems and won only his final race on a bike he borrowed from Briggo who had already won the title .

Thought that would get your attention forumlanders. Rosebery was a golden boy widely expected to replace Gladstone as P.M. which he duly did in 1894 when the G.O.M. finally retired. He lost an election in1895 which he did not need to call as he chose to treat a vote of censure as a vote of non confidence. He resigned when he lost that election but still had many supporters. He was still young and his followers would say "he'll be back " , then as time went on they said "when is he coming back" and finally in 1901 "he's not coming back". Well Bjorn was the Crown Prince of speedway for so long- 2nd in 1961 WF, 4th in 62 WF 2nd in 63 WF 5th in 64 WF before finally winning in 65. As many know he suffered from nerves and in 1965 was not ,unusually, one of the favourites particularly after he lost his first race to Bengt Jansson. So he finally reached the pinnacle and then retired the following year after another , this time unsuccessful, WF appearance. Many fans, including me, went thru the same set of comments as Rosebery's supporters. Rosebery went on to live a long life now he was under no pressure, and I think the same is occurring for Bjorn. I am a bit of a history buff and have often thought this was a parallel situation albeit in a different sphere and a different century!! Happy new Year everybody.!!.

Re Sidney the Robins' post on Dec 18th-while I appreciate being mentioned in the same breath as for example such luminaries as that young guy Norbold, et al., I must disagree that I am an elder statesman- I'm only 70 FFS-although I will admit to being on the cusp of middle age. I reckon to be considered an elder statesman you have to be 90 at least so I reckon Split Waterman qualifies as does Chuck Berry. Having said that I was in UK enjoying speedway only for the period 1964-68. However- I do agree with comments that Bjorn Knutsson was a giant of that period-I was privileged to see him win the World Title in 65 at my first visit to Wembley. I do miss the excitement of the one-off World Finals , although I accept that there were a few top guys who missed out winning due to engine failure etc. e.g. Dave Jessup, or falls e.g. Graham Warren, and others won only because it was held on their own "home" track e.g. Egon Muller imho Don't follow the current GP system-think its daft that you can become Champ without winning a single Grand Prix e.g. Mark Loram As others have said this is a great thread with interesting lists from all and I have enjoyed reading the various erudite (that word again) postings. I undertake to contact Split and Chuck and ask them what they drink-I will share the findings with forumlanders so that we can all order a case of it!!! P.S. The last WF I attended was in L.A. in 1982-another great one!!

Somebody help me on this but wasn't there an attempt to get League racing going in Canada- e.g. Dundas, Paris, Welland -maybe even in Toronto- an attempt maybe in the mid fifties-with Alan Kidd, Stan Bradbury et al?? Maybe Tiger Tom or Andout would know.

Not sure I know what it means myself.

Yeh, I agree its like Trump v. Clinton. Having said that what is it between these two posters who seem to hate each other-wots the background- I don't get upset if someone disagrees with my erudite (I like that word) posts- not that anybody does of course!!!!!

Glad Henry Long is still with us-reckon he must be number 7 on the oldest surviving World Finalist list now. Here's an idea -how about starting a list of oldest surviving forumland posters- I reckon I gotta be on that list born October 1946-at least I know I'm ahead of Norbold and chunky!!!

With the sad passing of Fred brand and Arthur Wright and maybe others (not Jack Geran though!!) can anybody update the list as of now ?? Not sure if Arthur Payne is still with us for example.

Have to agree re Norman Storer-always a solid guy. I recall he was in the 1964 PLRC Final, but I think he replaced someone who got injured-can anyone remind me who this was? Was also about to mention John Dews but Steve beat me to it-I recall John as a stalwart of the Sheffield side 1964-65, Here's another name or two- Mike Watkin(Newcastle) , Alan Butterfield (Middlesbrough). I have to support the mention of Mike Keen, from the village of Minety-does he still live there?? While I'm at it- Mike Cake as well. So many names come back to me as I'm posting this-e.g. John Poyser of Hackney, Brian Davies etc

God bless you, Fred-another one of the oldest World Finalists has passed away.

Didn't include Nordin in my Newport list as he only spent one season there-a standout in Newport's poor 1966 season however. BTW re Swedish riders-the first World final I attended was 1965 so got to see Knutsson's only win. Glad Chunky's post points out that Newport is not forgotten= "Newport has a Speedway team that is our pride and joy" "They're led by Alby Golden and he's backed by six good boys" etc etc. To the tune of John Brown's Body!!!!

Bob Hughes and Jon Erskine of Newport-also wot about Vic White-great servants of the sport. I'd agree with Mike keen also. BTW who is the David who sadly ended his life as per Steve Roberts post above??

Just realised that I should have included Jack Biggs in the Newport team-thought people like Chunky, BL65, and Norbold would have been on my ass about that but maybe nobody cares about Newport any more

Wot about Newport then? Here's my favorite 7 : Phil Crump, Torbjorn Harrysson, , Sandor Levai, Dick Bradley, Peter Vandenberg, Jimmy Gooch, Alby Golden....

Sorry I pressed the reply thing twice B)