INCOGNITO

A number of tracks already have two different teams like Belle Vue Aces and Colts, Coventry Bees and Storm etc but the problem here is it is two totally different products and if both products were more a like and carrying the same name then it gives more fixtures of interest and more variety of visiting teams. Swindon could use Morris, Tungate, Sedgeman, Wright, Nielsen along with two National League drafts who are replaced by Doyle and Kildemand or Zengota or a new 6.00 rider for Elite Wolves track Masters, Skornicki, Proctor, Musielak, Morris, Clegg (NL), Wiliamson (NL) but use two from Lindgren, Woffinden, Pawlicki or Klindt for the Elite. Belle Vue track Cook, Worrall, Worrall, Jacobs, Toft, Bewdley (NL), xxxx (NL) but use two from Zagar, Vaculik, Smolinski or 6.00 for Elite These are only examples but it gives Swindon possibly 14 plus 36 fixtures (25home) and a squad system and the only ones getting less meetings are the riders with commitments elsewhere but the riders committed to Britain have plenty of fixtures.

Not Berwick Bandits surely !!

Will be more interesting to see if they tell him he has no rides unless he drops one of the other leagues All Polish tracks appear to be standing together on this and like it or not, they tell the riders what to do unlike here where riders dictate. There is a bit of a concession being put forward by the Polish clubs, allowing a rider to ride in two leagues alongside his national league which would mean Polish riders can ride in two other leagues and it helps riders like Iversen, Pedersen, Kildemand etc from Denmark who can still do Sweden and Poland alongside Danish meetings which they would be expected to do by their body. Where that leaves Australian or Slovenian riders like Doyle, Zagar, Masters etc who don't really have a league to ride in, then maybe they will ride on a British ACU licence to make Britain their national choice or a PZM licence to make Poland their home choice ? All contracts are different but Sweden are roughly double what Britain pays and Poland double what Sweden pays and a top rider in Britain can look at three to four grand a night here but the 30k figure you may have heard about also includes the GPs or SEC so a rider can get about one million pounds a season and depending on what sponsors pay for, you have to think of team costs in wages, parts, transportation etc. If they get most of it covered which some have had that luxury then the money is good but it's reaching that level and staying there means they almost certainly deserve it so fair play to those that make the money now while they can. And hopefully get out of the sport in one piece at the end of it.

Perhaps he was in Poland on business and flying back in today

So do seven or eight Elite League on a set race night once every fortnight or three times a month but also run alongside it one big league with ALL tracks competitions on a Premier League level giving you another eighteen to twenty fixtures with your team represented in both leagues. As you are a Poole fan SS, you could track a team of both Kurtz brothers, Jack Holder, Newman and Ellis along with two reserves who ride National League. For the few Elite League meetings, the two lowest are replaced by two of your top riders so you could bring in any two from Maciej Janowski. Chris Holder, Hans Andersen or Bjarne Pedersen with the lowest of these also allowed to cover for Brady Kurtz if injured or unavailable in the big league. Britain won't compete with Poland financially but it should try and put on a top class league like they do and Sweden over 14 or 16 meetings not 28 with most of the team also riding elsewhere and unavailable at times.

The bubble won't burst in Poland for some time as they have lucrative sponsorship deals in place as there isn't the market over there for other sports as there is here. Football has got much bigger in Poland over the last few decades and is much bigger than speedway but while in Poland there is one speedway fan for every four or five football fans, over here it's one in 1,000 at least here. Britain has four professional leagues and numerous semi pro leagues that compete for sponsorship with Rugby, Darts, Boxing, Moto GP, Snooker, Horse Racing, Hockey, Greyhounds, Stock Cars and so many more sports but Poland have Speedway high up on the list and due to the interest from media, sponsors, fans etc they can pay big money but charge little to the fans. A crowd of 5,000 at a Polish match would only get gate recipes for about £25,000 which doesn't cover the wages when a top rider can walk away with a five figure some after a decent night. Here we can get 1,000 in gaining about £12,000 income which also struggles to meet wages and costs and any sponsors and especially the Sky deal has been keeping many clubs going for years. Sweden is roughly in the middle of Poland and Britain with wages and costs but again doesn't have as many other attractions we have in Britain. Yes Britain was the place to be years ago but so many riders now have easy access to other countries and times have moved forward. Look at the NSS at Belle Vue how people are raving about it and being such a great venue. Yes it is for Britain but it's coming at a huge cost to Belle Vue while in Poland you only have to see the investment in Torun, Leszno, Wroclaw, Gorzow etc in much better stadiums and much better tracks with numerous race lines. Britain has to say enough is enough and stop trying to match others or live in the dream that they are still the best. The sport has moved on and Britain hasn't and now comes the time to rebuild and put on a product that is affordable for all. It's still four riders over four laps but not paying the big money it has been for years to riders that fly in and fly out again compared to the riders twenty or thirty years ago that put the bike on the back of a car and went to the bar for last orders.

Tracks need more regular fixtures but that's not the case with the Eoite League. The Elite League needs to be much stronger but to do that you need the big names to return and the only way that will happen is if it's less fixtures and one race night. This could still happen for any track that wishes to compete but they need more fixtures at the track and one big league would give those tracks that also want to run an Elite League enough fixtures to keep the terraces entertained with 19 lower level meetings and seven top level meetings. This offers a variety of visitors and the difference between the teams in the two leagues are just two riders from the lower level replaced by two top riders for the Eoite League. More fixtures yes but more Elite fixtures running with doubling up riders would be suicidal and push the few tracks that are managing start to count their pennies

So which of the current Elite League teams are running without loses and paying riders on time. I would say you have Poole, Wolverhampton and possibly Swindon. Leicester, Belle Vue, Lakeside, Coventry and Kings Lynn have been struggling financially and that's in a weaker league than in years and with draft riders that was supposed to reduce costs. Now they are talking about six rider teams but Britain can't afford a Elite League running over twenty matches and maybe running like Sweden and Poland with just seven or eight matches could work with the main income coming from one big league set at Premier League levels which would be appealing to all Pl tracks to entertain more teams and more local derbies like Belle Vue at Sheffield or Somerset v Swindon etc. A lot will depend on what Poland are planning by stopping riders that sign for a Polish club riding in more than one other league. Riders like Chris Holder or Matej Zagar or NeilsK Iversen would be unable to ride here as they would ride in Poland and Sweden more so one big league would not only be better and more viable for Britain but also stick the fingers up at Poland and Sweden and say we are looking after ourselves than fill in for your big earners.

We have to see where Lindgren finishes but the last place will go to anyone from Bjerre, Hampel or hopefully Sayfutdinov

Next season will be this years top 11 along with Pedersen and qualifiers Dudek and Vaculik.

Sorry but is this thread wrongly named or what ? Surely it should be more like will he be the new Gollob or will it be Zmarzlik, Dudek, Przedpelski, Piesczcek, Drabik or others coming through the ranks and certainly not overrated

There is some serious issues to address the Elite League over the winter and Britain operating one big league would be a good move based more on Premier League averages and Poole could track a great team using Jack Holder, Kyle Newman, Adam Ellis, Brady Kurtz and Todd Kurtz as a foundation.

Depends how or if the Elite League lines up next season but Jack Holder looks destined to ride at Poole and may join as his brother moves on and could be joined by Todd Kurtz to line up with brother Brady and Hans Andersen. If there is an Elite League next year, sadly it can't run without doubling up riders but the gap between the two leagues is getting closer and closer and if more big hitters are out of Britain next season, it would be an ideal time to rebuild in Britain to one big league and drop the big earners who want to ride elsewhere. The fast track riders in the Elite League this season have been very good additions and great strides have been made by Lewis Kerr, Adam Ellis, Max Clegg and Steve Worrall and like many of these, they can't be used again and hopefully the high averages they have obtained won't hamper them next season.

Don't know where you are going with this but Steve Worrall has a 5.95 average, Kyle Newman a 5.52 and the much improved Clegg a 4.15 average so the ANYONE has to be a reserve if anything. Going on the seasons starting averages, the ideal team has to be something like 7.47 Chris Holder 8.58 6.45 Hans Andersen 7.15 6.18 Jacob Thorssell 7.06 6.11 Fredrik Lindgren 7.21 5.60 Sam Masters 7.18 4.11 Steve Worrall EDR 5.95 3.00 Adam Ellis EDR 5.60 Fits in with the rules from day one and all improved averages.

It's not a case of standing up to Poland as they try and restrict riders moving from league to league as they have the upper hand with some riders earning as much in one race over there as they would in a good night over here. Swedish riders have to ride in their countries league to gain a licence and the same in Denmark however top riders don't appear as much as others and it will be interesting to see how someone like Iversen doing four or five Danish meetings would leave him choosing Poland or Sweden and Britain. Let's not forget also that there was talk in all leagues, including Britain about restricting riders movement as injuries were becoming an every day thing by August and it appeared riders were getting burnt out by then with non stop racing and travelling appearing to affect their reactions on the race track. Riders like Chris Holder for example has been with Torun, Piraterna and Poole for season after season and if Torun said he had to ride in just one other, it would be likely to be Poole that he drops and can easily base himself in Poland or Sweden as he does here just as Lindgren resides in Angola and Hancock in Sweden. Yes it would affect most of the top riders we have left here possibly staying away as most of their sponsors like our own Tai Woffinden are heavily backed by Polish and Swedish firms but maybe this is something that needed Britain to finally do something positive and understand it is no longer the number one league in the sport and no longer the league riders look to in order to earn a living and learn their trade. Most riders in the Elite League either have a Premier League average already or have an average that can easily be converted to a PL average and Britain needs to work together and rebuild into one big league using Premier League averages to get a limit and create more spaces for National Leaguevridersbto gain reserve berths in the league. It also stops the big names coming back in when it suits them or when a rider has a false average due to the format. If Poole, Wolves, Swindon and Belle Vue still wanted to ride at a higher level, they could look at either doing a Elite League between them with a few other clubs doing a short programme and maybe even invite two Polish clubs and two Swedish clubs in to start a Champion League style tournament. Rebuild and forget what they are doing there, let's get British riders moving forwardmonce more insteadbofvstanding still by doubling up here there and everywhere.

Max is a Cradley asset isn't he

I think this year any questions about how teams will line up next season are very much off the mark as British Speedway could be seriously affected by what happens in other countries, especially Poland that seem set on getting riders to commit more, especially with tv deals meaning matches on Fridaysvand Saturdays as well as the regular Sunday's. Polish clubs want any rider that rides in any of their leagues to ride in just one other league. That would mean a rider like Chris Holder could sign for Torun but then have to decide if he wants to also race for Piraterna in Sweden or Poole in Britain. There appears to be money problems in most of the leagues these riders ride in, so given the choice they would pick the most reliable but Sweden pay about twice as much as Britain and Poland roughly three times as much. Riders that will most be affected by this are riders that ride a handful of meetings in their home country as an obligation like Niels K Iversen who rides just a few meetings each season. These riders want to continue to ride there but would feel hard done by having to drop Sweden and Britain to ride in Poland or drop Poland and then ride in Sweden and Britain instead. Therefore they may look at changing the new ruling to one other country than their home league. This remains to be authorised or passed by the powers to be like the PZM or whoever, but if all Polish clubs are in agreement, they can simply stick together and not field any rider that decides to ride in numerous leagues on various days. So if they are determined to put this in place, it would mean a large number of riders would have to choose between leagues if they want to ride in Poland and earn the potential big money deals. Tai Woffinden has already agreed deals in Wroclaw yet again and Marstad in Sweden after leaving Vetlanda and most of his big sponsors are from Poland. Freddie is moving clubs in Sweden and rides in the far out Dugavpils in Poland. Jacob has had a great season in Sweden with Rospigarna and has interest from a number of Polish clubs. Sam Masters obviously isn't a Wolves asset and has been getting more and more bookings abroad. Should Chris Harris sign for Wolves as many seem to think he will end up at Monmore Green, he has found bookings abroad hard to come by and is doing more and more Grasstrack meetings instead so would fit in well but that would be the case if he was to sign forvSwindon, Poole or anywhere else. Let's see what Poland are doing or get away with and then we will know if Britain carries on as normal or rebuilds based on riders that commit to Britain and don't do Sweden and Poland and if so it could push Britain into developing one big league built to more of a current Premier League level and make spaces for National League riders to fill the number seven positions.

Britain could have done this years ago when it was the place to be but they all sat down and worked out a deal to ensure no one trod on the others toes. However since then, Sweden have riders riding in both leagues on a Tuesday and Thursday while Poland have televised meetings on Fridays and Saturdays. Let's also not forget that both Sweden and Poland have allowed and helped riders enter other competitions such as the SEC while Britain decided to stop any rider taking part. Yes we all know that riders have been left unpaid in the past by certain clubs in Poland but we also have that in Sweden and here in Britain. Can they legally do it remains to be seen but if all teams stick together and say to the riders, only ride in one more country or league they are really leaving the option with the rider. Most will pick Poland as it does pay much more than the others and riders do mostly get paid most or all of it in the end and the chance to earn three or four times as much there is a small risk they will take and it's on a fixed race night. Then we have Danish and Swedish riders requested to ride in their leagues in order to back their licence. This would mean riders like Iversen, Lindgren, Lindback, Kildemand and even others like Thorssell, Klindt, Bjerre etc would have to miss Britain if the opted to ride in Poland. The Australians, Americans and others don't have their own leagues but can you see riders like Doyle, Holder and Hancock let alone the likes of Fricke or Zagar etc not opting to ride in both Sweden and Poland while most Polish riders would pick Sweden too with some maybe like Czech riders having little option. Yes this will hit Britain hard as it affects ALL Polish teams in all divisions and Britain has to act quickly and right,y to address this issue. Either agree a new deal allowing certain riders to still ride here or most likely say to all riders, ride here for 40 plus meeting, commit and we will back you or shut the door on the way out. This would mean without doubt that all tracks here would have to form one big league again as there would be no Elite League and no big names. This would at least not only give more riders the chance of a team place, mostly from the National League, but also give fans more variety in fixtures. It would however mean no doubling up allowed unless with National League teams. Rebuild British Speedway and if those don't want to.bye bye.

As this once great track is looking to rebuild to its former glories under the new owners of the Gollobs, would it not be good exposure for one or two young British riders to look at riding in this not just for the experience but also to put their name in the shop window ?

It didn't really stop and has had rain or drizzle most of the day Poole have done everything inside the rules just as Wolves did by bringing in a rider with an actual average that was lower than the rider being dropped. The fact that due to a poor race format and the big scores by others actually makes the World Champion fourth in the team averages. Yes Poole did things by the rules but the problem is not with Poole but the fact that rules are put in place by those that own the clubs and the sport needs bringing into the real world and run under the rules set up by an inependant panel just as other sports like Football with the FA or Formula 1 or Rugby etc etc who all report and run to the rules set up by a higher authority.

There isn't much difference between Harris and Thorssell at Monmore Green apart from one is more likely to gate and the other earn points from the back, but both are big scorers. It depends on how well the Poole riders go with Holder and Lindback the real test. Holder has had some poor meetings here and is known to hate the track while Lindback has never ridden this track really as it has changed so much over the years since he last rode here. Will Tungate still be guesting or will the d000ubtful Bjarne be back. At reserve both teams have strong pairings around Monmore so those two heats could be tight. With Tai still as a second string, Wolves could have Bomber and Tai out together a few times and that could be a 10 point advantage just there.

Won't mean much in the end as they are likely to meet up in the play offs with Belle Vue obviously going to pick Swindon. Both teams will look at it as practice on the opponents track more than a battle for three points.

Good track staff and a 20 minute regrade before the second meeting will be fine and the real test will be if there are any mechanical or injury worries with the home team from the first fixture. Tai Woffinden, Fredrik Lindgren and Chris Harris is a virtually unbeatable trio around Monmore and backing them up are Thorssell and Karlsson so it's hard to see anyone getting much when they visit Wolverhampton with that team. Both matches should be comfortable home wins and the play offs secured.

Match winning performance for Wroclaw yesterday from Woffinden saw them sneak into the play offs and should do the same for Wolverhampton with three home meetings in 7 days likely to get nine points. Also makes them stronger away and in heat 15 and starting at number three gives better options for use as a tactical ride if required, especially away. Wolves to win by 10 at least with a very strong top five that will be hard to beat over two legs against any team.

Well Done Belle Vue and a much deserved win on an appalling track which wrecked the home team more than the visitors.