fatface

I think both Courtney and Blackbird lacked the application...both very able though. Andy Campbell had a really good 1984 with Exeter, but it was a lot different being a big fish in a small pond than riding at no1 for the Aces. On paper all looked good signings....but didn't work out that way. The same year, Aces were in for Sam Ermolenko when he was out of British Speedway, but I think were put off by the terms. We got Eddie Ingels instead!

Yep. Stuart Bamforth is remembered as the man who sold Hyde Road....there are more layers to the story than that of course. But you couldn't accuse him of not trying to win with Belle Vue. He spent big on Mark Courtney, Carl Blackbird, Andy Campbell and Paul Thorp in a short space of time....and they were all the right riders to buy - at that time, they were all really promising English riders. Thorpy worked out the best. Blackbird and Courtney could and should have done better. But Andy Campbell, you could tell he tried really hard, but he just wasn't cut out to make it at the higher level.

Mark Crang... there's a bloke who was thrown in out of his depth. All due to the averages. I think the Aces paid around £5k for him... Mainly because he had a really low average. Only in speedway....

Did you read my full post? Just scroll up and re read if not. It could not be clearer that PC deserves a free pass. My understanding is that is what exactly was offered, but refused on the grounds that every other Belle Vue rider ever gets the same treatment. Finally, yes, I probably do deserve better from Tesco's. Some of those trolley trains I steered are still talked of with great reverence.

In very simple terms, the winner of the F1 World Championship is the world's best driver. The winner of the men's 100m is the world's fastest man. The World Heavyweight Champion is the toughest man in the world. Those things will always cut through because they are meaningful to most people on the planet. Being the best to slide a bike round an oval dirt circuit on machines no-one has heard of, is meaningless to the vast majority of the planet. Excitement is a matter of opinion, I have always found speedway a whole lot more interesting than F1 and always will. It's preaching to the choir on a speedway forum of course. We are obviously in the minority globally and that won't change. Speedway just has to present itself a lot better in the key markets who are interested. Of course the marketing and packaging leaves a lot to be desired. But - in my opinion - BSI are the least guilty party in this area. Most of the SGPs are at least comparable with most other "global" sport series in terms of spectacle. Anything served up by the BSPA is a notable step down from any major domestic events from other sports.

Agreed. Very honest and self-aware. He had a lot in his favour. A speedway family, great role model team mates like Hans Nielsen, talented. He should have joined a big track and got away from Eastbourne. Truth is Dugard, Barker and Norris should all have done better and as three likely lads together, probably held each other back. In all sport though, you can never really say who is going to make it to the top until they actually get in that environment and see how they react. It's not always the most talented who make it. For example, not many of us would have seen Jason Doyle becoming a World Champion.

Joe Screen was dynamite and had the ability Henrik Gustafson looked a stronger prospect than Tony Rickardsson at first

Yep,, as much as I'd like to see Mort in the top 10, I've no great argument with that. A very plausible top 10.

Agree. Still not clear on the criteria used. I can't see how Barry Briggs would qualify for the top 10 either on anything but sentiment. It's got to be a balance between results at the top level and consistency. All that said, one size won't fit all. The BL was the great indicator of a riders standing in the 70s and 80s. Couldn't say that for the last couple of decades.

Class act. I thought his best years were still ahead of him before the accident.

Cheers! It's good work...but I'm still not clear on the criteria? Are British Finals and Swedish Finals given equal "ranking points"? Are Swedish League and British League given equal ranking points? Even to my admittedly biased eyes, this still looks like Mort had a notably better record in the 80s? Also how is Phil Crump no8 in the 80s with just one World Final? Also, if a rider isn't competing at the top level anymore, can other riders catch them up in the latter part of the decade? On the latter for example, I would say at their absolute best Carter and Lee were a better rider than Morton. But over the course of the decade, there are years were he was better than them and other years (for differing reasons) where they were out of the picture with Mort was still at world class level. It's all good knockabout stuff of course. But it's also quite arbitrary. We humans like to think of things in decades, be in sport, music, culture...but it can skew the picture. Again, sticking with Mike Lee and add PC in there too...if you were looking at the 10 years from 1975-84, they would both - I suspect - rank higher.

Ditto. Worth knowing that Mort had more world final appearaces than anyone bar Nielsen and Gundersen in the 80s and won everything else worth winning during the decade... British Final, BLRC, World Pairs, WTC,, Intercontinental Final and in the BL, eight times in the top 10 averages, 5 times averaging over 10. I'd also wager he comfortably scored more test match points than any other England rider during the decade. What's the criteria? I'd be very surprised if some of the other names on the list have a better record than that.

It can be overlooked, but I think its the race where Penhall beats Olsen at Wembley and he gives Nielsen really short shrift on the first turn. And if he hadn't, Olsen could have been gone. It's the sort of move that really lets someone know they are in a World Final. Penhall was quick to learn these lessons...he got similar treatment from Lee the year before. Nielsen took longer to really get to grips with this type of riding in World Finals. But when he did, he started winning.

My pick would be Bruce Penhall. He cleaned up everything there was to win and did it in style too. And if we were talking about being the complete package, I think he has a stronger case than a few of those in the top 5. Crump, Hancock, Olsen, Gundersen all legitimate claims too....but also a couple of questions over whether they were the best in their own eras. Short as it was, Penhall was unquestionably the best of his. Disastrous it was at the time for the sport, but the timing of his retirement looks smarter and smarter as time goes on. Winning the title at the last ever final at Wembley, including winning two of the sport's most iconic races and defending it in his home city....well, it was never going to get any better than that for him was it? I think he had a few more titles in him, but somehow Norden, Bradford and Vojens just don't seem like the right stage for a rider who was the sport's last superstar.

100%. Great at his job as a promoter, but not a man to bring people together. He was sworn enemies with half of his fellow promoters and his tenures as England boss resulted in multiple fall outs. Just not the right fit. Though, to be honest, I am not sure if there has ever been the right person around..and if there ever was, if they had any brains, they got out of the sport pronto! All true. Sadly. Speedway will never adapt with the times....change will only come to speedway - as it always has - when change is forced upon it. And not in a good way.

Thanks Steve :-)

Thanks Steve. Be interested to see those. I went to the Belle Vue one and I know there were ones at Edinburgh, Poland, Germany, New Zealand...also USA possibly? Be interested to see any record of those.

Interested to know if anyone has the results of this global series in 1985? Can't find any record of it online. Was there an overall winner at all?

England 50 Australia 28 1 Ray Wilson © 2 , 2 , 3 , 1 8 1 Phil Crump 3 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2 13 2 Martin Ashby 1', 1', 1 , 2' 5 + 3 2 Bob Valentine 0 , 1', 2', 1 , 0 4 + 2 3 Peter Collins 3 , 2', 2 , 1 8 + 1 3 John Boulger © 1 , 3 , 0 , 0 , R 4 4 Dave Jessup 2', 0 , 2', 3 7 + 2 4 Phil Herne 0 , 0 , - , - 0 5 John Louis 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 12 5 Billy Sanders 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 6 6 Malcolm Simmons 3 , 2', 3 8 + 1 6 Garry Middleton R , 0 , - 0 7 Terry Betts 2', 0 , 0 2 + 1 7 Bob Humphreys 1 , 0 , - 1 Against possibly the strongest England team of all time, Australia had little chance of victory but often outgated the home country. But Crump received little support from both ex-Leicester rider Boulger and Sanders Saw this on the excellent info site www.internationalspeedway.co.uk with quite a big statement thrown in over this being the strongest England team of all-time at an international match at Leicester in 1975. But you know what, it probably was. All world class and all at - or very near - their peak. Useful reserve pairing too.

Yes....and the point is don't survey the existing crowds...that will tell us nothing. Or worse still pander to a shrinking group with less years in front of them to watch speedway. It's the people NOT attending speedway who are of more interest. How do we get more of them through the gate? I think we are at the stage where promotions like the Isle of Wight should be welcomed and given free rein to experiment with new formats...and properly pilot them. Oh, and please don't be offended on your age. I think we can all recognise that any sport who's fan demographic is 60+ has a problem.

Yes, he has. Guys like Len Silver also deserve a lot of credit for keeping tracks going for a long time. But, this is about the future, not about the past. It's not coincidence that the 60-80 year old men putting on the show are appealing to 60-80 year old men who attend. That's not long-term sustainable. It's need fresh eyes, fresh thinking and fresh blood.

It needs a complete revolution, not fiddling while Rome burns. The reality is the product and package isn't good enough...and people outside of the speedway bubble couldn't give a toss over doubling up or whatever the latest rule tweak is. My vision is for the British speedway to: move to a family-friendly weekend model be part of a multi-motorsport experience including sidecars, quads, flat track etc That's the core offering from any other motor sport experience in the UK road or off road. People of all ages get a full day out and people get to see disciplines they enjoy and others that they may want to grab a burger/pint during. I know I am biased, but I still believe (possibly foolishly) that with its stadium setting, speedway can offer a much more engaging spectacle that other motorsports. So, I still have hope. Faith is another matter. British speedway doesn't have....and never really has had....the leadership or appetite to make wholesale changes to reflect public opinion. Nor, sadly are the remaining hardcore fans blameless, they too will (largely) stubbornly oppose change even whilst their fellow hardcore supporters are slowly dwindling away before their very eyes. It requires a Barry Hearn/Dana White figure...but the potential is ultimately limited, so people of that ilk are never going to come forward. And so, we will trundle on.

The only plan is to make it up as they go along...which every year means cobbling together what's left. And er, that's it.

It is very amateurish...let's stop any pretence it is a professional sport in Britain and cut the cloth accordingly.

Thanks very much