fatface

The pre-BSI SGP was undoubtedly run into the ground given that nobody had an overall responsibility for it. However, my point was that whilst 30,000 fans at a speedway event might seem impressive today, you were still getting bigger attendances only ten years ago. Hang on there. The 93-94 Finals must have attracted crowds of 15,000 max. Throw in the qualifying rounds - World Semis, Overseas etc. and you'd have say 40,000 max watching the World Championships. As for TV, we had a small highlights package of the 94 Final on Grandstand one week later. Now, even by your conservative estimates, our World Championship is seen by 160,000 paying customers and is broadcast live to hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of others throught Europe and also shown in Australia. Sorry Kevin, but even your own figures don't back up your argument.

Yes, and I still say that this was down to other factors beside the SGP. Unfortunately, none of us can prove it either way, so let's just agree to disagree. TV coverage of the GPs since 95 has increased the overall consciousness of the sport's existence significantly. From say 86-95 if you weren't a speedway fan - you wouldn't even know it existed. And many who have comeback to the sport since SKY's TV coverage of the GPs have been reminded about the sport they once loved. Again, 23 clubs (1994), 32 clubs (2003). You cannot underestimate the interest TV can generate in a sport at all levels. Have you ever tried to get a game of tennis after Wimbledon? You must read the wrong papers, because the Daily Telegraph has always given the sport pretty good coverage. That's why I said EVEN the Guardian. But you won't catch me out - you'll never get me to admit to buying the Torygraph :twisted: I am not for a moment suggesting that the World Championship does not have a higher profile than it did ten years, and yes it's largely held in better stadiums (although not all of them are better - Avesta, Hamar, Krsko to name but a few). Of course BSI have improved things, but you have to look at the bigger picture. If you're only interested in the SGP, then what they're doing is fine. However, I think the vast majority of fans prefer league racing to which the SGP is incredibly disruptive, without actually bringing any extra fans through the turnstiles or otherwise improving revenue. Of course, you might reasonably argue that attendances would have fallen even further without the SGP, but that's something else that no-one can prove either way. SGP does not interupt the PL. And the EL only really have themselves to blame. Over many years the top league has shrunk and shrunk, now they are totally reliant on a very small pool of riders. Poole alone have 4 GP riders. Rewind 20 years. The equivalent of Rickardsson, Adams, Dryml, Pedersen would be something like Lee, Sigalos, Knudsen, Shirra who would have been equally disrupted with World Champs, World Pairs, World Team and World Long Track commitments. BSI have put together a modern World Championship which is exciting and appealling to new and old supporters. The BSPAs top competition ie. the EL has gradually become a laughing stock with guests, rider replacements, doubling up etc. That's their fault, not BSI's. The real issue though, is that what you're currently seeing is a thin veneer. It is the local GP promoters that are taking all the financial risks and often losing money to allow BSI to be profitable. There is nothing wrong with BSI trying to make money, but local promoters will only be willing to take a killing for so long. That's why the Aussie GP didn't happen this season, and why there are question marks over the Slovenian, Norwegian and Polish GPs. Enjoy them while you can! In the meantime, the British leagues have to put-up with all manner of disruption. For all the faults of the BSPA, it still generates most of the income in speedway, and the SGP would not be able to exist without it. A few of the very top riders could possibly survive on the Polish and Swedish leagues alone, but the middle-and-bottom order SGP riders still depend very heavily on British income. I'm not suggesting to do away with the SGP, but BSI needs to recognise that no matter how badly-run the BEL is, it's own success is built on it. The two are co-dependent. TV coverage for GPs opened the door for EL TV coverage, there is no doubt about that. And apart from sharing riders, GPs have little in common with the dreary presentation at most tracks. Anyway, what is you want BSI to do? Step back and let the BSPA host the spectacular that is the EL as the sport's main showcase. Where you can use 50 rider during a season to win the league! As far as I can see, BSI have improved two things. They have taken the competition to a handful of prestigious venues (although at least five of the venues are not an improvement), and have put the competition on television. That's great, but at the same time the series has too many mediocre riders, and a combination of crap tracks and a questionable format have turned it into a lottery. I wouldn't disagree that things are better than they were ten years ago, but I still wouldn't say the competition was in the category of 'very special' yet. It is much easier to promote ten events per year, than the 600+ that the BSPA members do (with less paid staff). Even then, the organisation of the SWC was pretty pathetic, and the Scandinavian GP a complete fiasco. Agreed the Scandinavian GP was bad news. BSI acknowledged it. SWC - that's your opinion, many would disagree. But tens of thousands who attended GPs last year - including me - had a bloody good time. The ELRC in contrast was garbage - will the BSPA acknowledge it. To them it was just another day at the office.

Of course everybody agrees we need a controlling independent body. A body that can look after the interests of the sport as a whole and not of the interests of promoters only. The real problem is wrestling the power away from the promoters, who will not give up their power easily. The only way I can conceivably see it happening is if a body such as UK Sport took an interest in speedway - (equally unlikely I know!) But if the sport could be shown to have an important social value then grant aid and lottery money could come our way. But, to get the money the governing body would have to be completely revamped - that means an independent body. So, in short the only way to shift the BSPA out would be with the promise of more money for the sport.

You are not wrong on Colin Hill. I'm sure he'd be even happier to drag it down to 35. Why build a decent team, when you can drag everybody down to your own level? :roll:

I seem to remember that Sky didn't cover the SGP until a few years after it started. I think it was originally on other satellite channels, as was the World Final. It was certainly Sky who covered the inaugral British Grand Prix from Hackney although I can't be certain for the other rounds that year. Regardless of Kevin Meynell's selective memory, yes SKY have covered every GP since it was launched in 95. Be back tomorrow to discuss Kevin M's further points.

94 or 95 - nitpick if you want. :roll: The major point is that since SKY has covered GPs (ie since the series launched in 95) there has been a huge increase in the number of operating speedway tracks in Britain from 23 to 32. And since BSI's involvment, our sport now achieves a much higher profile - even the Guardian have been known to give the sport some good coverage. The sport is back in some of the world's great stadiums - that's cause for celebration surely? Cos ten years ago our showpiece event was in some German backwater called Pocking. Don't get me wrong, all is not rosy and BSI and the BSPA have some issues to sort out. But whilst the BSPA has lurched from disaster to disaster over the past 20 odd years, BSI have taken the World Championship and made it something very special again in a very short space of time. Like it or not, in marketing and promotion terms they leave the BSPA miles behind in their tyre tracks. If the BSPA can't keep up, that's their fault.

Sorry Kevin, if you think it is coincidence that there are now 9 extra clubs since SKY/BSI/GPs all got going in 94, you have your head stuck in the shale. There is no way on earth that prospective promoters and former fans who have come back into the sport with clubs like Rye House, Newport and Workington have done so without having their interest at least partly re-kindled by the TV coverage provided by SKY/BSI/GPs. Please don't tell me they just happen to be interested in the sport again after all these years, at exactly the same time the sport started to receive decent TV coverage. Please... :roll:

I do think this idea that BSI, SKY and the GPs has done nothing to increase interest in Britain really ought to be put to bed. I've done some research, here's what I've come up with: 1994 (pre-GP/BSI/SKY) No of clubs: BL Div 1 - 11 BL Div 2 - 10 Others tracks (Buxton/Linlithgow) - 2 TOTAL - 23 2003 (incl GP/BSI/SKY) No of clubs: EL - 8 PL - 18 CL - 5* Others (Weymouth) - 1 TOTAL - 32 *not counting clubs who also have teams in higher leagues Nine extra clubs now in Britain - that's nearly 50% more - this can't be coincidence, surely?

You are bang on Jeff. The pros of the current format far outweigh the cons. There hasn't even been a year yet where somebody who hasn't been able to qualify for that year's GPs could realistically expect to get in the top 10, never mind win it. It never ceases to amaze me the criticism Sky and BSI recieve on the forum. Even when the sport was in its heyday, live coverage was a rarity. Now we have national live coverage of all World Championship events and weekly league racing. At the start of the 90s, I reckon you would have got bloody long odds on that happening.

It doesn't stop them holding a European Individual Championship, or a European U19 Championship! Certainly doesn't Kevin, and I'm sure you'll agree both are about as important as the Dagenham Ladies Darts Championshipss

Might not be a bad shout. But i'd find it easier if it was every 2. For other sports, there is normally European Championships in between World Championships - which makes the gap more bearable. Of course a Euro Team Championships would be a little pointless in speedway - so we could just do the World thing every couple of years.

Superb stuff that Grachan. Amazing how 60 seconds worth of frantic action can bring so much pleasure after so much time. Talking of that has your wife given birth yet?

Where do you go to the toilet then?

I know - sorry about that. No offence to Rudy. In fact I'm sure I read somewhere that he emigrated to Australia? Still wouldn't mind knowing what happened to Larry Ross though....

Well, if he wanted to win something, he just had to head North.

Yeah then they sold him to Halifax/Bradford and he was (errrmm got to be polite!!) not very good home or away Larry Ross - always true to Belle Vue........

Aye right Steve! You'll be there every GP Saturday in front of the TV with your surround sound cranked up. How miserable it must be for you for those 10 or so Saturdays every year.

Would love to know what Larry Ross is up to as well. He was a cracking rider for the Aces for a while.

Chuffed to see Loramski there. Since the GPs started, he truly has been one the most successful and exciting riders in the series. I don't think he's capable of winning the series anymore, but a fully-fit Loram is capable of pinching a rostrum place or two.

I would say that the whole Pre-Main Event is meaningless in the current format. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter what format you use if the event is well promoted, and the racing sufficiently exciting. The 'boring' 16-heat, 20-heat format still managed to attract 100,000 fans to past World Finals, which is three times the number of the best attended GP to date! Don't really agree. Riders from the Pre-Event Main can win the GP - I know Nicki Pedersen is one who has certainly done this. I also think the format does matter - GP organisers have to appeal to people outside the sport not just those within, that means an easy-to-follow system in which every race counts. Also, I do think harping back to "Wembley-100,000-one-off" is nothing more than a pleasant trip down memory lane. Like it or not, those days are gone. We live in a multi-media world where people's choice of entertainment has increased ten-fold. We have to change, the world won't change for us.

113 - Chris Cobby/Darren Boocock 114 - Les Collins 116 - Martin Hagon, Paul Woods, Blue is anyone's guess - Flemming Rasmussen will be my first stab in the dark :?

Or possibly a 16 rider formula in which the first few races see elimination heats which get rid of just one rider (4th), give two another chance (3rd and 2nd) and one goes through? That might be a way of keeping around 20 heats? Or is that too complex?

I remember Tony Forward too. He seemed to leave the speedway scene just as quickly as he had arrived as I recall. Didn't he also have a short stint in the National League with Long Eaton or someone similar??

Its a nice sentiment to be concerned for riders having to travel so far for two rides. But this is our big showcase event, and I think it has to be geared toward spectators. That means every race meaning something. Some Formula one drivers crash at the start of GPs, Some 100m athletes are eliminated in the first round of the Olympics, Some Footballers go to the World Cup and don't get a game. That's sport. Its tough, but as a spectator I wouldn't want it any other way.

On second glance - i think you've nailed this one.