fatface

127 - would love to see that race - Grachan?! OK , I'll have a go at the tough ones, even if no-one else won't 128 - Tony Forward/Paul Smith 130 - Its than funny wee man Sam Nicolajsen with Shooey again 124 - not convinced it is Peter Glanz, I think its Jan Andersson

Fantastic stuff. Like Luchy says, even turns 1 & 2 make it a cracker. Juicy Brucey hanging off his bike on the last turn before making that run to the line - got to be one of the sport's finest moments?

Great news. A full house must be guaranteed. Even 20 years on from his retirement, he is still a major attraction. Still makes me think he threw it all away though. If he had become the Hollywood Star he thought he would, do you think he'd bother coming to Telford?

Thanks guys. I'll be able to sleep at night now.

I am actually not going to say where I stayed, cos I don't want everyone else to book it! Top tip though: When looking for accomodation, don't use the Welsh Tourist Board site or other Accomodation/Weekend Breaks sites, in my experience, they only list the hotels with websites and e-mail addresses. Which are quickly snapped up by internet junkies - like myself. Better to try the yellow pages website. That lists all hotels, b&bs, guesthouses whether they have e-mail, website, fax or just a phone. Last year I booked into a cracking little B&B in the centre just a week before the GP.

On another thread I got talking with Evo and neither of us know why the Dukes used an elephant as their symbol. Anyone know why? No saying its because they moved at the same speed now! :evil:

Think I'll take this to a wider audience. Poor old Rudy Muts has got relatively short shrift on this thread about him.

Sounds like a League Cup match in that case Evo. The one I went to was the last match of the season. What I remember most was one race where Chris Morton banged off the fence on the last turn and it propelled him past Ian Cartwright. Also remember a great fireworks display afterwards, which ended with big elephant wagging its tale. Why was an Elephant their symbol? Anyone? :?

Great to see those pics from the Shay, Evo. The first ever "away" match I went to was the end of the season Dukes v Aces match in 1981 - is this the same match the photos are from?

A legend indeed. Some of my favourites Lanningisms: "Poetry on Wheels" - Peter Collins "Heat Seeking Missile" - Kenny Carter "Applecart Merchant" - Egon Muller Sometimes, I didn't know what he was on about, but he always brought colour to every broadcast.

Chris Pusey died fairly recently. I think if you do a search on the Manchester Evening News site - you might get your answer how.

It's a cracker.

Here we go again :roll: Yes, because they were held stadiums with small capacities. I didn't go to the 1994 Final in Vojens, but the 1993 Final in Pocking was a sell-out, and could have sold far more tickets. Could've? Would've? Should've? Try didn't. Who would you say has the biggest viewing figures - Grandstand or Sky Sports? That's bloody obvious. But if you ask me what reaches a greater amount of people. 30 hours of live World Championships SKY coverage over a season at peak viewing times, plus an additional 60 hours of repeats, plus 10 terrestrial hours from Channel 4. I think I'll take that over 30 minutes a year of a week-late coverage on Sunday Grandstand. And at the time the coverage was seen as a bonus - you will have seen nothing from the 90, 91, 92, 93 Finals on BBC or ITV, as I recall only Eurosport covered them. You accuse me of being selective, but then you do exactly the same. Aggregate attendances do not tell the whole story, because many fans will watch multiple rounds of the SGP. I suspect there are still only 40,000 fans that watch World Championship speedway, but a good percentage attend several rounds. I think you are overestimating the wealth of speedway fans. Only 40,000 watch it in total? Using your figures - 30k GB, Scandinavia, Poland GPs, 15k Czech, Danish, Swedish, Poland II GPs, Slovenia 8k, Norway 5k. That's 163,000 overall. So that would mean this wandering band of 40,000 people take in an average of at least 4 GPs per season. Of all the people on this forum, there mught be one or two maximum who a) did that, could afford it. Once again though, you miss my point. I'm not arguing that a handful of the GPs are better attended, or even that they're watched by more viewers, but I dispute that BSI have created that market. I think it was always there, and anyone that had the vision (and financial backing) to rent out a large stadium and do the proper promotion would have got the same crowds. Quite right, cos speedway is a great sport, it will always have a market. Thank God, we have finally got somebody with a little vision to put the sport back on the big stage. As I've said previously, BSI have undoubtedly improved the SGP compared to what it was, but I don't think it's as good as people seem to think, and I also question their economic model. Time will tell I suppose! Time will tell. To be honest, let's look at the worst case scenario. Even if the financial model collapses. BSI discredited, a few promoters out of pocket. But the sport itself of vastly greater interest to thousands more people. Where will we be? Still well ahead of where we were 10 years ago. And light years ahead of where we would have been had we stuck with the untelevised, one-off World Final in crappy stadiums like Pocking-format. Lord knows where we might have been. Maybe the County Ground would have hosted a World Final by now You surely don't believe that the quoted attendance figures are all paying customers? I heard that at one GP, only half the reported number of people actually paid to get in. And I would ask how many of those people have we seen through the turnstiles in Britain? Once again, 23 tracks in Britain before SKY coverage of GPs, now there are 32. The GPs have moved on significantly in recent years and I can only see the number of tracks increasing rather than decreasing.

The pre-BSI SGP was undoubtedly run into the ground given that nobody had an overall responsibility for it. However, my point was that whilst 30,000 fans at a speedway event might seem impressive today, you were still getting bigger attendances only ten years ago. Hang on there. The 93-94 Finals must have attracted crowds of 15,000 max. Throw in the qualifying rounds - World Semis, Overseas etc. and you'd have say 40,000 max watching the World Championships. As for TV, we had a small highlights package of the 94 Final on Grandstand one week later. Now, even by your conservative estimates, our World Championship is seen by 160,000 paying customers and is broadcast live to hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of others throught Europe and also shown in Australia. Sorry Kevin, but even your own figures don't back up your argument.

Yes, and I still say that this was down to other factors beside the SGP. Unfortunately, none of us can prove it either way, so let's just agree to disagree. TV coverage of the GPs since 95 has increased the overall consciousness of the sport's existence significantly. From say 86-95 if you weren't a speedway fan - you wouldn't even know it existed. And many who have comeback to the sport since SKY's TV coverage of the GPs have been reminded about the sport they once loved. Again, 23 clubs (1994), 32 clubs (2003). You cannot underestimate the interest TV can generate in a sport at all levels. Have you ever tried to get a game of tennis after Wimbledon? You must read the wrong papers, because the Daily Telegraph has always given the sport pretty good coverage. That's why I said EVEN the Guardian. But you won't catch me out - you'll never get me to admit to buying the Torygraph :twisted: I am not for a moment suggesting that the World Championship does not have a higher profile than it did ten years, and yes it's largely held in better stadiums (although not all of them are better - Avesta, Hamar, Krsko to name but a few). Of course BSI have improved things, but you have to look at the bigger picture. If you're only interested in the SGP, then what they're doing is fine. However, I think the vast majority of fans prefer league racing to which the SGP is incredibly disruptive, without actually bringing any extra fans through the turnstiles or otherwise improving revenue. Of course, you might reasonably argue that attendances would have fallen even further without the SGP, but that's something else that no-one can prove either way. SGP does not interupt the PL. And the EL only really have themselves to blame. Over many years the top league has shrunk and shrunk, now they are totally reliant on a very small pool of riders. Poole alone have 4 GP riders. Rewind 20 years. The equivalent of Rickardsson, Adams, Dryml, Pedersen would be something like Lee, Sigalos, Knudsen, Shirra who would have been equally disrupted with World Champs, World Pairs, World Team and World Long Track commitments. BSI have put together a modern World Championship which is exciting and appealling to new and old supporters. The BSPAs top competition ie. the EL has gradually become a laughing stock with guests, rider replacements, doubling up etc. That's their fault, not BSI's. The real issue though, is that what you're currently seeing is a thin veneer. It is the local GP promoters that are taking all the financial risks and often losing money to allow BSI to be profitable. There is nothing wrong with BSI trying to make money, but local promoters will only be willing to take a killing for so long. That's why the Aussie GP didn't happen this season, and why there are question marks over the Slovenian, Norwegian and Polish GPs. Enjoy them while you can! In the meantime, the British leagues have to put-up with all manner of disruption. For all the faults of the BSPA, it still generates most of the income in speedway, and the SGP would not be able to exist without it. A few of the very top riders could possibly survive on the Polish and Swedish leagues alone, but the middle-and-bottom order SGP riders still depend very heavily on British income. I'm not suggesting to do away with the SGP, but BSI needs to recognise that no matter how badly-run the BEL is, it's own success is built on it. The two are co-dependent. TV coverage for GPs opened the door for EL TV coverage, there is no doubt about that. And apart from sharing riders, GPs have little in common with the dreary presentation at most tracks. Anyway, what is you want BSI to do? Step back and let the BSPA host the spectacular that is the EL as the sport's main showcase. Where you can use 50 rider during a season to win the league! As far as I can see, BSI have improved two things. They have taken the competition to a handful of prestigious venues (although at least five of the venues are not an improvement), and have put the competition on television. That's great, but at the same time the series has too many mediocre riders, and a combination of crap tracks and a questionable format have turned it into a lottery. I wouldn't disagree that things are better than they were ten years ago, but I still wouldn't say the competition was in the category of 'very special' yet. It is much easier to promote ten events per year, than the 600+ that the BSPA members do (with less paid staff). Even then, the organisation of the SWC was pretty pathetic, and the Scandinavian GP a complete fiasco. Agreed the Scandinavian GP was bad news. BSI acknowledged it. SWC - that's your opinion, many would disagree. But tens of thousands who attended GPs last year - including me - had a bloody good time. The ELRC in contrast was garbage - will the BSPA acknowledge it. To them it was just another day at the office.

Of course everybody agrees we need a controlling independent body. A body that can look after the interests of the sport as a whole and not of the interests of promoters only. The real problem is wrestling the power away from the promoters, who will not give up their power easily. The only way I can conceivably see it happening is if a body such as UK Sport took an interest in speedway - (equally unlikely I know!) But if the sport could be shown to have an important social value then grant aid and lottery money could come our way. But, to get the money the governing body would have to be completely revamped - that means an independent body. So, in short the only way to shift the BSPA out would be with the promise of more money for the sport.

You are not wrong on Colin Hill. I'm sure he'd be even happier to drag it down to 35. Why build a decent team, when you can drag everybody down to your own level? :roll:

I seem to remember that Sky didn't cover the SGP until a few years after it started. I think it was originally on other satellite channels, as was the World Final. It was certainly Sky who covered the inaugral British Grand Prix from Hackney although I can't be certain for the other rounds that year. Regardless of Kevin Meynell's selective memory, yes SKY have covered every GP since it was launched in 95. Be back tomorrow to discuss Kevin M's further points.

94 or 95 - nitpick if you want. :roll: The major point is that since SKY has covered GPs (ie since the series launched in 95) there has been a huge increase in the number of operating speedway tracks in Britain from 23 to 32. And since BSI's involvment, our sport now achieves a much higher profile - even the Guardian have been known to give the sport some good coverage. The sport is back in some of the world's great stadiums - that's cause for celebration surely? Cos ten years ago our showpiece event was in some German backwater called Pocking. Don't get me wrong, all is not rosy and BSI and the BSPA have some issues to sort out. But whilst the BSPA has lurched from disaster to disaster over the past 20 odd years, BSI have taken the World Championship and made it something very special again in a very short space of time. Like it or not, in marketing and promotion terms they leave the BSPA miles behind in their tyre tracks. If the BSPA can't keep up, that's their fault.

Sorry Kevin, if you think it is coincidence that there are now 9 extra clubs since SKY/BSI/GPs all got going in 94, you have your head stuck in the shale. There is no way on earth that prospective promoters and former fans who have come back into the sport with clubs like Rye House, Newport and Workington have done so without having their interest at least partly re-kindled by the TV coverage provided by SKY/BSI/GPs. Please don't tell me they just happen to be interested in the sport again after all these years, at exactly the same time the sport started to receive decent TV coverage. Please... :roll:

I do think this idea that BSI, SKY and the GPs has done nothing to increase interest in Britain really ought to be put to bed. I've done some research, here's what I've come up with: 1994 (pre-GP/BSI/SKY) No of clubs: BL Div 1 - 11 BL Div 2 - 10 Others tracks (Buxton/Linlithgow) - 2 TOTAL - 23 2003 (incl GP/BSI/SKY) No of clubs: EL - 8 PL - 18 CL - 5* Others (Weymouth) - 1 TOTAL - 32 *not counting clubs who also have teams in higher leagues Nine extra clubs now in Britain - that's nearly 50% more - this can't be coincidence, surely?

You are bang on Jeff. The pros of the current format far outweigh the cons. There hasn't even been a year yet where somebody who hasn't been able to qualify for that year's GPs could realistically expect to get in the top 10, never mind win it. It never ceases to amaze me the criticism Sky and BSI recieve on the forum. Even when the sport was in its heyday, live coverage was a rarity. Now we have national live coverage of all World Championship events and weekly league racing. At the start of the 90s, I reckon you would have got bloody long odds on that happening.

It doesn't stop them holding a European Individual Championship, or a European U19 Championship! Certainly doesn't Kevin, and I'm sure you'll agree both are about as important as the Dagenham Ladies Darts Championshipss

Might not be a bad shout. But i'd find it easier if it was every 2. For other sports, there is normally European Championships in between World Championships - which makes the gap more bearable. Of course a Euro Team Championships would be a little pointless in speedway - so we could just do the World thing every couple of years.

Superb stuff that Grachan. Amazing how 60 seconds worth of frantic action can bring so much pleasure after so much time. Talking of that has your wife given birth yet?