fatface

Hi Jamie, Welcome to the forum. You are a man of almost impeccable taste. I too would love to get my hands on the sort of footage you are after, but I'd be cheering for the boys in red white and black i'm afraid. The only think I know that is out there is the 1983 Northern Riders from Hyde Road, where you will see Mighty Mort kick Kenny's ***. Good luck in finding something

Hate to say I told you so!

There seeems to be this assumption that Tony came to England with a silver spoon in his mouth. I remember him first arriving here to ride for Ipswich as a young 18/19 year old, he wasn't the best in the world straight away, he battled away and eventually established himself. Just because it took Mauger a lot longer to make it shouldn't reflect badly on Rickardson. If anything it points to the opposite - Tony made it quicker because he was more talented.

Based on pure ability on a speedway machine, I'd go for Tony any day of the week. The guy can gate, overtake (inside/outside), he's fast, he's hard - he's just got it all. Mauger's outstanding talent was his ability to gate under pressure. That is what won him World Titles in years in which he really wasn't the best on the planet (72, 77, 79).

I have no outstanding single memory of him. I just remember that whenever he came to Belle Vue (my hometrack at the time), it just seemed special. He genuinely was a superstar who everyone wanted to see.

They're all big boys and shouldn't be riding in the league if they're that much out of their depth. The reserves already have easier races, what with Heat 2, and then meeting another reserve in at least 2 or their remaining 3 programmed rides. The suggestion to mess around with Heat 8 is just yet more pointless tinkering, that will do nothing to solve the underlying problems in the sport. Totally agree Kevin. When our promoters get together for their once-a-year meeting, is this the sort of pointless drivel they'll be discussing for hours on end? Is this the sort of thing that will draw thousands of people through the gates. "Oooo, the no7 gets an easier ride?" - I'm there! Surely the big issues are: Good Tracks - well prepared and deep Good Competitions - a bigger EL and no mickey mouse BLC Real teams - less rider replacements, guests, doubling-up and other silly "only-in-speedway" rules

Hi WATigerman, i'll go: 119 - Erik Gundersen with Les Collins 120 - Alun Rossiter

127 - would love to see that race - Grachan?! OK , I'll have a go at the tough ones, even if no-one else won't 128 - Tony Forward/Paul Smith 130 - Its than funny wee man Sam Nicolajsen with Shooey again 124 - not convinced it is Peter Glanz, I think its Jan Andersson

Fantastic stuff. Like Luchy says, even turns 1 & 2 make it a cracker. Juicy Brucey hanging off his bike on the last turn before making that run to the line - got to be one of the sport's finest moments?

Great news. A full house must be guaranteed. Even 20 years on from his retirement, he is still a major attraction. Still makes me think he threw it all away though. If he had become the Hollywood Star he thought he would, do you think he'd bother coming to Telford?

Thanks guys. I'll be able to sleep at night now.

I am actually not going to say where I stayed, cos I don't want everyone else to book it! Top tip though: When looking for accomodation, don't use the Welsh Tourist Board site or other Accomodation/Weekend Breaks sites, in my experience, they only list the hotels with websites and e-mail addresses. Which are quickly snapped up by internet junkies - like myself. Better to try the yellow pages website. That lists all hotels, b&bs, guesthouses whether they have e-mail, website, fax or just a phone. Last year I booked into a cracking little B&B in the centre just a week before the GP.

On another thread I got talking with Evo and neither of us know why the Dukes used an elephant as their symbol. Anyone know why? No saying its because they moved at the same speed now! :evil:

Think I'll take this to a wider audience. Poor old Rudy Muts has got relatively short shrift on this thread about him.

Sounds like a League Cup match in that case Evo. The one I went to was the last match of the season. What I remember most was one race where Chris Morton banged off the fence on the last turn and it propelled him past Ian Cartwright. Also remember a great fireworks display afterwards, which ended with big elephant wagging its tale. Why was an Elephant their symbol? Anyone? :?

Great to see those pics from the Shay, Evo. The first ever "away" match I went to was the end of the season Dukes v Aces match in 1981 - is this the same match the photos are from?

A legend indeed. Some of my favourites Lanningisms: "Poetry on Wheels" - Peter Collins "Heat Seeking Missile" - Kenny Carter "Applecart Merchant" - Egon Muller Sometimes, I didn't know what he was on about, but he always brought colour to every broadcast.

Chris Pusey died fairly recently. I think if you do a search on the Manchester Evening News site - you might get your answer how.

It's a cracker.

Here we go again :roll: Yes, because they were held stadiums with small capacities. I didn't go to the 1994 Final in Vojens, but the 1993 Final in Pocking was a sell-out, and could have sold far more tickets. Could've? Would've? Should've? Try didn't. Who would you say has the biggest viewing figures - Grandstand or Sky Sports? That's bloody obvious. But if you ask me what reaches a greater amount of people. 30 hours of live World Championships SKY coverage over a season at peak viewing times, plus an additional 60 hours of repeats, plus 10 terrestrial hours from Channel 4. I think I'll take that over 30 minutes a year of a week-late coverage on Sunday Grandstand. And at the time the coverage was seen as a bonus - you will have seen nothing from the 90, 91, 92, 93 Finals on BBC or ITV, as I recall only Eurosport covered them. You accuse me of being selective, but then you do exactly the same. Aggregate attendances do not tell the whole story, because many fans will watch multiple rounds of the SGP. I suspect there are still only 40,000 fans that watch World Championship speedway, but a good percentage attend several rounds. I think you are overestimating the wealth of speedway fans. Only 40,000 watch it in total? Using your figures - 30k GB, Scandinavia, Poland GPs, 15k Czech, Danish, Swedish, Poland II GPs, Slovenia 8k, Norway 5k. That's 163,000 overall. So that would mean this wandering band of 40,000 people take in an average of at least 4 GPs per season. Of all the people on this forum, there mught be one or two maximum who a) did that, could afford it. Once again though, you miss my point. I'm not arguing that a handful of the GPs are better attended, or even that they're watched by more viewers, but I dispute that BSI have created that market. I think it was always there, and anyone that had the vision (and financial backing) to rent out a large stadium and do the proper promotion would have got the same crowds. Quite right, cos speedway is a great sport, it will always have a market. Thank God, we have finally got somebody with a little vision to put the sport back on the big stage. As I've said previously, BSI have undoubtedly improved the SGP compared to what it was, but I don't think it's as good as people seem to think, and I also question their economic model. Time will tell I suppose! Time will tell. To be honest, let's look at the worst case scenario. Even if the financial model collapses. BSI discredited, a few promoters out of pocket. But the sport itself of vastly greater interest to thousands more people. Where will we be? Still well ahead of where we were 10 years ago. And light years ahead of where we would have been had we stuck with the untelevised, one-off World Final in crappy stadiums like Pocking-format. Lord knows where we might have been. Maybe the County Ground would have hosted a World Final by now You surely don't believe that the quoted attendance figures are all paying customers? I heard that at one GP, only half the reported number of people actually paid to get in. And I would ask how many of those people have we seen through the turnstiles in Britain? Once again, 23 tracks in Britain before SKY coverage of GPs, now there are 32. The GPs have moved on significantly in recent years and I can only see the number of tracks increasing rather than decreasing.

The pre-BSI SGP was undoubtedly run into the ground given that nobody had an overall responsibility for it. However, my point was that whilst 30,000 fans at a speedway event might seem impressive today, you were still getting bigger attendances only ten years ago. Hang on there. The 93-94 Finals must have attracted crowds of 15,000 max. Throw in the qualifying rounds - World Semis, Overseas etc. and you'd have say 40,000 max watching the World Championships. As for TV, we had a small highlights package of the 94 Final on Grandstand one week later. Now, even by your conservative estimates, our World Championship is seen by 160,000 paying customers and is broadcast live to hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of others throught Europe and also shown in Australia. Sorry Kevin, but even your own figures don't back up your argument.

Yes, and I still say that this was down to other factors beside the SGP. Unfortunately, none of us can prove it either way, so let's just agree to disagree. TV coverage of the GPs since 95 has increased the overall consciousness of the sport's existence significantly. From say 86-95 if you weren't a speedway fan - you wouldn't even know it existed. And many who have comeback to the sport since SKY's TV coverage of the GPs have been reminded about the sport they once loved. Again, 23 clubs (1994), 32 clubs (2003). You cannot underestimate the interest TV can generate in a sport at all levels. Have you ever tried to get a game of tennis after Wimbledon? You must read the wrong papers, because the Daily Telegraph has always given the sport pretty good coverage. That's why I said EVEN the Guardian. But you won't catch me out - you'll never get me to admit to buying the Torygraph :twisted: I am not for a moment suggesting that the World Championship does not have a higher profile than it did ten years, and yes it's largely held in better stadiums (although not all of them are better - Avesta, Hamar, Krsko to name but a few). Of course BSI have improved things, but you have to look at the bigger picture. If you're only interested in the SGP, then what they're doing is fine. However, I think the vast majority of fans prefer league racing to which the SGP is incredibly disruptive, without actually bringing any extra fans through the turnstiles or otherwise improving revenue. Of course, you might reasonably argue that attendances would have fallen even further without the SGP, but that's something else that no-one can prove either way. SGP does not interupt the PL. And the EL only really have themselves to blame. Over many years the top league has shrunk and shrunk, now they are totally reliant on a very small pool of riders. Poole alone have 4 GP riders. Rewind 20 years. The equivalent of Rickardsson, Adams, Dryml, Pedersen would be something like Lee, Sigalos, Knudsen, Shirra who would have been equally disrupted with World Champs, World Pairs, World Team and World Long Track commitments. BSI have put together a modern World Championship which is exciting and appealling to new and old supporters. The BSPAs top competition ie. the EL has gradually become a laughing stock with guests, rider replacements, doubling up etc. That's their fault, not BSI's. The real issue though, is that what you're currently seeing is a thin veneer. It is the local GP promoters that are taking all the financial risks and often losing money to allow BSI to be profitable. There is nothing wrong with BSI trying to make money, but local promoters will only be willing to take a killing for so long. That's why the Aussie GP didn't happen this season, and why there are question marks over the Slovenian, Norwegian and Polish GPs. Enjoy them while you can! In the meantime, the British leagues have to put-up with all manner of disruption. For all the faults of the BSPA, it still generates most of the income in speedway, and the SGP would not be able to exist without it. A few of the very top riders could possibly survive on the Polish and Swedish leagues alone, but the middle-and-bottom order SGP riders still depend very heavily on British income. I'm not suggesting to do away with the SGP, but BSI needs to recognise that no matter how badly-run the BEL is, it's own success is built on it. The two are co-dependent. TV coverage for GPs opened the door for EL TV coverage, there is no doubt about that. And apart from sharing riders, GPs have little in common with the dreary presentation at most tracks. Anyway, what is you want BSI to do? Step back and let the BSPA host the spectacular that is the EL as the sport's main showcase. Where you can use 50 rider during a season to win the league! As far as I can see, BSI have improved two things. They have taken the competition to a handful of prestigious venues (although at least five of the venues are not an improvement), and have put the competition on television. That's great, but at the same time the series has too many mediocre riders, and a combination of crap tracks and a questionable format have turned it into a lottery. I wouldn't disagree that things are better than they were ten years ago, but I still wouldn't say the competition was in the category of 'very special' yet. It is much easier to promote ten events per year, than the 600+ that the BSPA members do (with less paid staff). Even then, the organisation of the SWC was pretty pathetic, and the Scandinavian GP a complete fiasco. Agreed the Scandinavian GP was bad news. BSI acknowledged it. SWC - that's your opinion, many would disagree. But tens of thousands who attended GPs last year - including me - had a bloody good time. The ELRC in contrast was garbage - will the BSPA acknowledge it. To them it was just another day at the office.

Of course everybody agrees we need a controlling independent body. A body that can look after the interests of the sport as a whole and not of the interests of promoters only. The real problem is wrestling the power away from the promoters, who will not give up their power easily. The only way I can conceivably see it happening is if a body such as UK Sport took an interest in speedway - (equally unlikely I know!) But if the sport could be shown to have an important social value then grant aid and lottery money could come our way. But, to get the money the governing body would have to be completely revamped - that means an independent body. So, in short the only way to shift the BSPA out would be with the promise of more money for the sport.

You are not wrong on Colin Hill. I'm sure he'd be even happier to drag it down to 35. Why build a decent team, when you can drag everybody down to your own level? :roll:

I seem to remember that Sky didn't cover the SGP until a few years after it started. I think it was originally on other satellite channels, as was the World Final. It was certainly Sky who covered the inaugral British Grand Prix from Hackney although I can't be certain for the other rounds that year. Regardless of Kevin Meynell's selective memory, yes SKY have covered every GP since it was launched in 95. Be back tomorrow to discuss Kevin M's further points.