fatface

I wasn't saying Carter was better than PC. Just said that the British Final was bloody hard to win at one time and the great PC winning it only once illustrates that perfectly. As for the rest, well, it's all opinions. If you want to say Ole Olsen was a better rider than Carter you have a fair old case, but Ashby, Crump and Louis. Hmmm, that's dubious.

Easy tiger! I'm not having a dig at anyone. All the very best to you too Rob :-) I'm just saying that around that 81/82 time in particular, Carter was a truly awesome rider. For every promoter he was a "must have" rider at their big annual individual meeting. Meetings that he very often won. Anyone who describes him as "second-rate" clearly did not fully appreciate this guy in his pomp, because he was superb. It'd be like me saying someone like Jack Parker was second rate. As a footnote, from what I've seen of the 81 Overseas, it's difficult to come to any other conclusion than that Penhall did dump Carter in the fence. But, I'm not going to let personal opinions of either rider get in the way. To be honest, I'm fairly negative towards both, but as a rider Carter was top notch, capable of going to any track and beating any rider.

When you list his achievements like that, then no, it doesn't seem like a lot. But I think you had to be watching the sport at that time to truly appreciate the rider he was. The titles you've listed above didn't come easy to anyone during that era. PC only won the British Final once and Mike Lee never won the BLRC. The latter in particular was a tough, tough meeting with serious prestige. Kenny was superb in winning that, especially in 1981. But I don't think he can be defined statistically. I know that as a young Belle Vue fan he was the opposition rider you always feared most, more so than Penhall, Lee, Olsen, Gundersen etc. Not many could come to Hyde Road beat Mort and PC and race to a maximum. He could. He was cocky, arrogant, selfish, but most of all, just a brilliantly talented racer. I don't think it's just Aces fans that felt that way either.

I used to have the first three tests from England v USA in 1983 from Wimbledon, Swindon and Poole from KM Video on Betamax! There was some cracking racing, particularly from Blunsdon. I think it was a christmas present for this wee lad. I must have been a good boy that year. I gave that tape some serious airtime! If ever any Hyde Road action ever becomes available on DVD, please let me know, I'd be dead keen to get my hands on it.

A tricky one to call is that. There would've been a fair few GP winners that year. Chris Morton started the year like a train. Dennis Sigalos and Hans Nielsen were the top riders during the summer and Kenny Carter finally got back his top form by the year's end. But my pick would have been Mike Lee. He was in excellent form all year, he was mentally refreshed by his move to Poole and - unlike his main rivals - he had ample experience of competing at the very top end of the sport.

Interesting reading is that Rob. I tend to think you've included some rather redundant stats though. For me, the key one is that Hans lost three run-offs out of three to win the title, Erik won two out of two. For me, Gundersen was THE MAN when it came to the crunch. I'd be interested in knowing their head-to-head record in finals from 81 to 89. My feeling is that Erik once again has the edge. As a footnote, yep I remember that BLRC run-off well. Gundersen was notorious for tape touching that year. It was the first year of the new exclusion rule being brought in and he found it harder than most to adjust to it. In the re-run, Nielsen stopped and tried to claim foul when Chris Morton surprised him by nipping inside him on the second bend. Hans hardly demonstrated a head for the occasion that night too.

Thought Mauger was just shy of 40 when he won in 1979? I think Gollob's a contender, but I would also be very surprised if he won it. I don't think he's getting better with age, but I would say his attitude has noticeably improved. There's little sign now of the petulance which caused him to simply give up when he didn't like the track at some GPs.

Czech - Prague is always a pleasure to visit, the track itself is so-so Italy - Lonigo is very quiet, but fun and friendly Latvia - Daugavpils was possibly one of the worst towns I have every been to and a swine to get to. Pity because Riga is cracking. Poland - Bydgoszcz has a great track, great atmosphere and the town is lively enough to enjoy yourself Slovenia - Lljubljana was a joy of a place to visit, the only problem was getting to Krsko, all in all, though a smashing trip My personal fave would be Bydgoszcz. You camn get direct flights (so no messing about once you arrive, as in Latvia, Slovenia and Italy) there's fun to be had in the town and you are virtually guaranteed a superb atmosphere and great racing

Ok, you've misquoted me to make your point. So be it. I said there is no-one left out who is CLEARLY superior to anyone in next year's series. That's CLEARLY. Some would say Lindback, Zagar are superior to Harris. Others would argue the other way. On the other point, I'm looking forward to your list of more exciting moments in Grand Prix history than Chris Harris' 2007 British GP win. Seems like I am CLEARLY wrong there too...

What a bunch of over the top whingers on this topic! The four picks are debatable, but by no means ridiculous. Those who are suggesting that the ommission of Lee Richardson is somehow the last thread of the sport's credibility are just being plain silly. Why do people feel the need to exaggerate their views to have a greater effect on-line? Never understood that. Lindgren and Andersen are definitely amongst the world's elite and deserve a spot. Both are prospective World Champs of the future. Tai is one of the world's top prospects and has proven he can mix it at the SWC, so why not? Chris Harris is probably the luckiest of the three, but although he has struggled this season, he still has the ability to perform at this level and is one of the most exciting riders in the series. He's also responsible for probably the most dramatic 60 seconds of racing in the history the SGP. He's a rider I - and many others - would pay to see. Yes, there is an element of leniency towards the Brits, but the series needs a good mix otherwise it will be seriously stale. No-one can say that one of the world's very top riders has been left out. Zagar, Lindback are on the cusp, but not clearly superior to anyone in next year's series.

I agree entirely. Gundersen had that extra gear to go up to when the crunch really came. I don't think Nielsen had it. You could make a great case for Hans Nielsen being the greatest British League rider ever, but when it come to the big stage, he probably didn't perform to his maximum potential. Having actually won the world championship four times, that does mean he was one hell of a rider. But you could make an argument that his temperament was found a little wanting in 84, 85, 88, 94, 97, when he could - and probably should - have won at least three of those. Has any other rider lost THREE world title run-offs?

It's worth the wait Stargazer. Went to this one a few years ago and really enjoyed it..Ljlubljana and Slovenia generally is a lovely place to spend the weekend. :-)

Erm...possibly because they are being quoted?! Anyway...the sport is organised UK-wide (just cos there isn't a NI-based team doesn't mean the door is closed), Ian Thomas and Eric Boocock managed "England" and Kenny Carter felt "British". Where's the problem? Also, not sure if John Berry deserves much credit for "guiding" England to World Cup success in 1977. At that time the Poles were mechanically not at the races, the Swedes were too old, the Danes were too young, the Yanks didn't even have a team and the Kiwis and Aussies had barely any recognised international riders beyond their top 1 or 2. My granny could have managed Lee, PC, Jessup and Simmons to World Cup gold in 1977. I give much more kudos to Thomas and Boocock for their 1980 Grand Slam, when the Yanks and Danes were pretty tough opposition.

I got a few for the great man: * How many World Championships does he think he might have won under the Grand Prix format? * Apart from winning the World Title in 1976, which single meeting in his career gave him the most satisfaction? * Which opponent did he most enjoy beating? * What caused his split with Joe Screen, who he assisted in his early GP days? * Are the days of one-club loyalty gone? * Did he ever come close to leaving Belle Vue? Thanks Jim

I think a piece on the whole "World of Sport" team that covered speedway so well during the 70s/80s would fit perfectly in Backtrack. I'm sure the likes of Dave Lanning and Gary Newbon would have a tale or two to tell. In fact, if you see this Tony and like it, PM me and I might be up for doing this piece for the mag.

Hopefully I can stop you being overly narked then. Nobody likes being lumbered with some narkiness. God knows I've been stuck with mine for 25 years now... Havelock was making his debut, it was his first season operating at that level, he had very little experience of racing in Poland, so yeah, I'd say it was slightly surprising. However, that doesn't mean to say it wasn't 100% deserved. That particular year he was seriously in form and on the big day he produced it when it mattered. Fair play and bloody well done say I!

For me it was: 1983 - and I am one of the thos that gets narked about it! 1985 - decent bit of drama, Gundersen's Heat 20 win was one of THE greatest 1987 - had all the atmosphere of the Shropshire youth grass-track championships 1990 - cracking night's racing 1992 - so-so racing made very enjoyable by Havelock's surprise win

Perhaps. I guess the switch from the Shay to Odsal and Kenny Carter's death all came at a time when speedway throughout the UK seemed to take a really noticeable dip in popularity. But as a visiting supporter, I certainly much preferred trips to the Shay than Odsal. Odsal had its moments, when it was packed out for World Finals. But by and large, a speedway crowd for a league meeting was a little lost in that vast bowl. For me, it seriously lacked the cracking atmosphere of the Shay. I'm sure WATigerman won't mind me using his great pictures as an example from another thread, which nicely capture a Saturday night at the Shay. I only wish these pics were scratch and sniff!

This is sad news. Shawn was always one of my favourite riders as a kid. Spectacular on track and always ready with a smile, a chat and an autograph for this star-struck young fan. He was also one of the most sporting riders you could ever come across..he was always gracious be it in defeat or victory. I sincerely hope he manages to get himself together...he gave British supporters years of pleasure.

spot on Hazzman. What is this new GP to be called? In previous years we have had the second Swedish GP called the Scandinavian GP and the second Polish GP called the European GP. What's this extra Danish one to be called? Any suggestions?

Seems an odd post. I don't know the numbers behind it, but it's always seemed to me that Nicholls has been one of the more successful riders in terms of team honours in British speedway. He certainly won lots of trophies with Ipswich and Coventry and this year won the KO Cup again with Eastbourne. Or has this all been achieved despite him?!

I think that's a bit unfair. I'm not really one of life's moaners. But I do think if you are forking out £50+ for an evening's entertainment. You expect to get the full monty. Going to Cardiff is not like a regular speedway meeting. My money pays for the pre-meeting entertainment, fireworks, big screens, light show...so if I don't actually get back what I am paying for, isn't it reasonable to expect some sort of rebate? I've been to every Cardiff GP bar one and have always had a great time. But this year, the lack of a big screen did impinge on that enjoyment. Just by going to Cardiff each year, myself and family have stuck around £2k in BSI's coffers. I'm a good customer and when I don't get what I pay for, then surely it's only fair I get some of that money back. No?

I had a bad experience with BSI this year. I wrote a very polite letter to Paul Bellamy complaining about the faulty big screen at this year's British Grand Prix. From our seats we could only see the faulty screen, not the functioning one. So we couldn't see the official results appearing, see the pits activity or see replays on the big screen. To be honest it had an effect on our enjoyment of the evening and I wrote to inform them of this and wondered if there would be a partial refund for our very expensive tickets. No, came the reply (from a secretary, not from the man himself)...simply stating that it wouldn't have taken away from our enjoyment of the evening. It did BSI, it bloody did.

Nielsen & Gundersen had charisma?! They kept them well hidden then. Nicki's got more personality in his missing fingers than either of those ever had. Fantastic riders though they were. Six titles? Hmmm...probably not, I'd say. I'd say Crump has one more in him in the next 1-3 years. I'd also say Hans Andersen will win it one year too, probably in 2-3 years. By my reasoning, that means Nicki will have to win 3 of the next 5. Not impossible, but a big ask. Surely he will succumb to injury at some point too. World Champion he may be, but is there any other GP rider who spends so much time falling on his a**e?

Amen to that!