fatface

I don't think anyone is hammering him at all, so I don't know why you are being so precious. People are simply stating that he didn't have the desire to make it to the very top. Which is something he (presumably based on above), you and everyone else agree upon. Where there is disagreement is that he is among the very best Americans of all time. That suggestion - without any significant international achievements at all - is preposterous.

I think you have to understand the vantage point to understand this fan-cum-reporter's high ranking of Mike Bast. He's a passionate fan of the Californian Speedway scene and if he were to rank all those Yanks that actually did have the ambition to come to Europe and succeed above Bast, that would be a tacit admission of the inferiority of American Speedway. Admitting Mike Bast is way below the likes of Penhall, Ermolenko, Autrey, Sigalos would effectively admit that American speedway is way below the standard in Europe. He's a fan! A biased fan who hasn't properly taken into account the bigger picture! He wouldn't be the first American either...but I digress. I'm (fairly) sure Mike Bast might have been a success in Europe, given the success of his peers. But he didn't have the motivation or hunger to prove it. That's what separates the real champions from the talented. As it is, all we really have to go on in international terms is a really poor performance at White City which puts his World Championship record on a par with Rob Pfetzing at best.

seems plain weird to put such credence on a fan-cum-reporter with little experience or knowledge of the sport outside of a few tracks on the west coast of the US. But hey, there's nowt funnier than folk. Here's mine: Penhall Hancock Ermolenko Hamill S Moran

Funny how four great speedway nations - Denmark, Sweden, USA and Australia - are all tied on five World Champions each. I do think this one writes itself. I agree with a lot of the above... 1 Nielsen 2 Olsen 3 Gundersen 4 N Pedersen 5 J O Pedersen and yet...if I had to put my life on a one-off race between Nielsen and Gundersen, I'd go for Gundersen. Though Hans undoubtedly achieved the most and I'd probably rank him as the most skilled speedway rider of all time. Technically, he was excellent.

He would have also contended at the 1978 Final had his fuel not been spiked at the British Final.

I won't pretend to be the world's foremost expert on the mechanics of the sport (not the sharpest tool in the box?!). But the reduced impact of the Poles - and Czechs for that matter - coincided with the peak of the Weslake in the late 70s and early 80s. Weren't all the Eastern Europeans exclusively on board the Czech Jawas at the time and as such were a little disadvantaged?

Interesting stuff. The Bruce Cribb/Ice Final is a bit of a segway. But I'll happily jump on board. It got me thinking about teams with World Speedway, World Long-Track and World Ice Speedway Champions all in the same team. From my dusty brain, I got Poole 1983 with Lee, Ermolenko, Stenlund. Can anyone match or beat that?

Yep, I agree with a lot of that. It's not provable that Per Jonsson would have won more titles. BUT, the fact that he had already won one makes it much more credible that he would have won again, having already climbed the mountain once. Something that cannot be said of the rest who sadly had their careers cut short. Although if backed into a corner, I'd say Ward would have won it one day. The rest? Hmmm, probably not.

We're all guilty of being biased towards the eras we spectated most frequently. I'm no different. But I am still surprised to see any debate around Per Jonsson being in the top five Swedes ever. He was a full deserving World Champion, achieved with some spectacular overtaking too. I'd also say he was the best in the world during 1992. I wouldn't begrudge Gary Havelock, he took his chance when it came. If not for an untimely thunderstorm in Wroclaw, then the outcome may have been different that day. I also saw him pick off Havvy in the semi-final at Bradford that showed incredible expertise and left me in no doubt as to who was the better rider that year. I thought he was such a technically excellent rider, he had a tremendous ability to 'carry speed' like few others. He was one of those who truly had it in him to overtake the very best riders in the world. I'm not sure you can say that of all the world's best ever riders. At the time of his career-ending accident, he was at his peak and I think he had another World Title or two well within his range. For me, it's less about the debate between Jonsson, Sjosten, Nygren and the rest. I'd say Per Jonsson should be debated alongside Michanek and Knutsson as the third best ever Swede.

I'm sure you are right that the Fundin-Briggs-Craven-Moore era was one of the strongest in history. But it is funny when you look back how strong some years can look in retrospect. It is interesting to note that the 1999 GP series featured seven World Champions who have since totalled 20 World Championships! But would anyone then or now regard 1999 as the best year ever?

Interesting thread and it's not always the best teams that have a load of world finalists. Exeter 1979 is a good example - Autrey, Verner, Verner, Kudrna, Dryml and no8 Boocock all had at least one WF appearance. Koppe and Prinsloo were the exceptions. On the other hand, a top team like Reading 1990 were stacked - Jonsson, Doncaster, Wiltshire, Andersson, Olsson, Castagna all got through to the big night. Think that was also probably the only year where an eligible World Champion failed to qualify for the BLRC or ELRC or whatever it has been called. Jonsson was third in the Racers averages that year. Quirky stuff for all anoraks out there 😀 Another interesting one... Cradley 1982 had eight riders don the Heathens' bib who reached at least one WF. Penhall, Gundersen, King, Collins, Cross, Wigg, Verner, Grahame (res).

Exeter - Big Bank Holiday crowds enjoying the sun for an 11am dust up with Poole

Belle Vue - Taffy Owen's shop..he had my pocket money every week! Sheffield - the bakery and it's delicious smell on the approach Halifax - end of season fireworks, including an illuminated Elephant

I'm alongside those finding this a bit perplexing. Sure Todd Wiltshire did well in 1990. He scraped through to the final, but did well in his only appearance. And as much as I enjoyed that 1990 final, it was was missing Gundersen, Pedersen, Ermolenko who had all succumbed to injury in the 12 months previous. It's a final Nielsen should have won with his eyes closed, but that's another story. Wiltshire was also well outscored by Craig Boyce, Troy Butler, Leigh Adams and Stephen Davies for the Aussies in that year's World Cup. The following year, he was eliminated at the Overseas Final stage. So, it was shame he missed some of his peak years with the subsequent injury. But a potential multiple World Champion? Hmmm. That's stretching it. Both Phil Crump and Leigh Adams were missing the X factor that makes world champions, but they were both in the world's top 10-20 riders for at least a decade each and belong in the top tier of Aussie riders ever. Wiltshire for me, is more aligned with say, Craig Boyce and Jason Lyons.

It's probably the only year where you could make a case for Scott Autrey. But I'd still say it was unlikely. Having a great year in the league doesn't necessarily translate to success in the World Championships. See Leigh Adams. Autrey probably had his very best year in the UK in 1979 precisely because he didn't take part in and prioritise the World Championships, unlike every other top rider. Would he have been better than the uber-experienced Mauger, Plech on home dirt, a near-peak Lee and even Olsen on a sweeping Polish track? I always thought Autrey better on the narrower and tighter tracks. I couldn't visualise him winning in Poland. Good rider - great that year, but there are certainly many better riders who are much more deserving of the title as "the best rider never to have won the World Championship."

Too young for London's glory days of speedway. But I did enjoy a couple of trips to Hackney, where the racing was great. Also went to Plough Lane in NL days and it had that same quality feel that Brandon used to have. Sorry to say I also went there for Banger World Champs once and the atmosphere far exceeded that of its latter days as a speedway. In the last five years or so, I also went to the dogs there and the whole place seemed a lot more tatty.

Some glum Robins fans on this. This'll cheer you up. Turned up at Blunsdon to watch the Aces in 85, only to discover they were minus Mort and PC. They were away on long track business and as it was LT, we couldn't have any guests. So we just promoted a couple of juniors. Predictably we were absolutely hammered. Swindon got 60 odd, I can recall one of the Chessells having a great night. Long journey for not a lot to shout about.

You must have conveniently forgotten Mort taking Penhall on the last turn then 😉

I am too young (don't get the chance to say that much these days!) to have seen that Aces team, but I certainly got a fair old view of the 83 Cradley team and they were terrific. It was a rare example of everything clicking. It's worth bearing in mind that it was Gundersen's first season as captain and no1. He had to step up to fill the huge void of Bruce Penhall. He'd only been in one World Final up to then too. It was Simon Wigg's first season up from the National League, Lance King was still only in his second season and was a second string at best the previous year. Jan O Pedersen was an unknown. Ravn was out of form. You could argue that only really Collins and Grahame could be looked upon as safe bets to reproduce. But all of them exceeded expectations. They even had Simon Cross at no8! As an Aces fan, the one consolation was getting the better of them in the season-opening Premiership, before they were truly up to speed :-)

Yep, the KO Cup was a big disappointment. It's nicely described in John Berry's book though. The track was a mess and akin to riding on plasticine. It was speedway Jim, but not as we know. I can recall Mort not even sliding into the turns and if he was doing that at Hyde Road, then there was clearly problems. Funny, despite the disappointments, I do recall that season fondly though. Mort and PC winning the World Pairs was a big deal, so too Mort winning the BLRC. But there just seemed to be plenty of sunny Saturdays, when the Aces hammered teams but the racing was still great. Or maybe that's rose-tinted nostalgia for you 😀

Again, the old grey matter could be fading...but I think there were 1 or 2 occasions when Mort and PC were missing on long track or some other international commitment and they simply promoted a no8 and had rider replacement. Even without their spearhead, they had more than enough Aces in hand. See what I did there?

Bit of a segway, but I'd have the Aces team of 84 as the best team ever to win....nothing! Mort, Ross, PC, Peter Carr, Smith, Courtney, McKinna. They hammered teams left right and centre all year at home, but got pipped by Ipswich for the league. I think they also finished 2nd in the KO Cup, League Cup and Premiership.

Jason Lyons was one of the very best visitors to the County Ground when riding there with Glasgow. I recall him overtaking Greeny on the last bend, which took some balls and I don't remember seeing anyone else do that at Exeter. My mistake. There was still a huge contrast between the rising stars of Ipswich and the pretty unfashionable lot we had! :-)

Yes I remember that match. As I recall, Ipswich were a team of rising stars - Louis and Loram I think were also in the team. But they were given a rude awakening from some pretty robust riding from the likes of Greeny and Andy Sell. All very enjoyable from the right side of the fence.

Richard Green deserves a name check. It seemed like there wasn't a week went by at Exeter in the late 80s/early 90s when he either produced a last bend overtake or was involved in a spectacular crash. Plenty of opponents thought him a nutter. They were probably right, but he was a cult hero in Devon.