norwichkev

Agree with a lot of that in principle Villiers, I took Mildenhall out of the equation to attempt to take tribalism out of the argument. Some like the idea of being Brit only & an NDL my view has always been it is the wrong vehicle we need to start from grass roots up - but at the moment all is fragmented and 12 months on we are no further forwards. Not a smokescreen either, listening to the radio link it would appear the Academy is genuinely under threat - what I, and presumably you, do not know is the details of how this situation has arisen and without apportioning blame presumably there has been a glitch in communication between both parties that needs a resolve ( quite possibly due to the late package rushed through to get Mildenhall running last year - in which the BSPA were a key factor in enabling that to happen and rightly recieved plaudits for ). As for the Academy from memory I think this was on the blueprint and business plan that was part of the reason for acceptance into the NL, so again am assuming that this is honouring the commitment. Have seen nowhere any suggestion that any other club is expected to "mop up" any monies, not sure where that one started from. Lets hope both parties can speedily agree a solution that works for both sides. Again from a non Mildenhall point would you not though agree that BSPA support and funding should be available to develop Acadamies? Kev

June, Always a convert and no change in views but always looking at a wider perspective and current circumstances - one analogy is that if you take Scunny as an example why do they use foreign riders in the PL side? Would you go and watch? I suspect yes you would. Money through the gate is vital for any club and hopefully will not only pay the bills but provide investment for the future, change is a gradual process. The forum carping on about young Aussies coming over and keeping young Brits out is short sightedness, where is Jo Jacobs this winter? In Aussie staying with Cameron Heeps family and getting experience Aussie style - not all one way traffic is it. Instead of internal fighting and point scoring would it not be better to pull together? EL clubs with NO British riders, is that right and "in the best interests of Speedway" Kev

Oh dear, oh dear, Take off those blinkers, last one first have been around the sport since early 60's at Norwich. Montie, John Leslie, Villiers - have you got the wrong end of the stick? No, perhaps you simply choose not to understand - it is easy to pick and choose parts of posts eh. Let me try to explain how I understand it: 1) Fees are owed, what is in question is repayment terms - if they were payable immediately JL then that would have been stated at the time. 2) Academy was part of original plan when Mildenhall were relaunched. Not new. 3) JL get real, you mention in last sentence the CURRENT prime movers - is the current set up working? Why doe we still not have enough youngsters coming through the sport. What appears to be in danger is the launch of the academy - end of. Presumably if the funds are diverted to pay on the loan then the academy may not happen. Lets make this simple. Try and forget your club / anti other club views. For the sake of argument take Mildenhall out of the equation: 1) Is the current development system working 2) Is a British World Champion important? Not a daft question, look at football - some supporters follow club, not country. 3) Do you want more Brits coming into the sport - in a structured, focused environment? 4) In the absence of Malcolms blue sky vision happening in the current environment would you support a new academy? 5) Should the BSPA be part of the support process. 6) Keep the current system. Take out the emotion, keep them to simple YES / NO answers. Kev

Go back to my first post - think British riders and forget tribalism. You obviously do not care which is your prerogative, but let me reply : Your first point on Acadamies is totally irrelevant - was part of the Mildenhall mission statement from day 1 1) Rolls Royce is not British owned 2) You drive any car and unless tax exempt then you pay road tax 3) Mildenhall agree that the fee is due but no payment terms were set - why should any other team pay? It appears that from nowhere there is a request for the fee to be paid immediately. But you make a very good point, if you cannot purchase your Rolls Royce outright then you pay back over a number of years - I think you are getting the hang of it now! 4) Fees were set by BSPA so how does that affect any other team? Show me the part that remotely suggests other teams have to subsidise - of course you cannot because none exists. 4) Buxton have an academy? share with us all. Last time Jane posted there was difficulty in attracting riders for a second half ( not a criticism in any way on Buxton ). Well done you on your well thought out post - the future would surely be safe in your hands. Try the positive approach for a change, if the BSPA support Scunny ( who have done an excellent job over many years in youth development - isn't it about time they had support from the sport? ), Buxton, Mildenhall et al in bringing yougsters into the sport then just maybe we can attract more British youngsters to take up the sport - surely that is where the future should lie. Malcolm brings some excellent thoughts on his personal vision, however, the highest number of unemployed for 17 years and the amount of high profile companies going bust ( and the likes of Comet being sold for £2 ) make it exceptionally unlikely to attract any corporate sponsorship in the foreseeable future. So, does the sport do nothing and hope it's still around in a couple of years. The BSPA now have an excellent opportunity to make the first step to bring the sport forward with people ( ex riders all ) who care about Speedway AND young Brits - everything starts somewhere why not embrace it. Kev

Not sure where you are going with this, as I see it Money agreed owed and there doesn't appear to be any dispute nor complaint - but not tied in to a payment date but then a demand for instant payment not sure any business could operate cash flow like that. I would assume that the figure is the same for all clubs? if so can be no compliants on that score. As for visiting riders etc as far as I know they are always well treated - most even respect and do not abuse the facilities or of course that would be plastered everywhere as bad press. How were the Stoke riders badly treated? When the threat of trouble kicked off one of the promoters took some of the Stoke riders out of the way for protection. After the fiery meeting in which Lambert was the panto villain and tempers got inflamed on both sides then they got on with it. The Promoters then did what they should do - promote the meeting - and I cannot recall any problems at all can you?. As for not knowing what Lambert could do? get out of it he is absolute quality around West Row you cannot seriously believe that the likes of Michael Lee are not aware of that. Kev On this we agree, but can't see it happening as money is involved. Maybe if we can get the Academy up and running others can join in year 2 and we can finally get enough British riders up to NL standard. Interesting on the radio article Chris Louis talking about lads upwards from 12 on smaller bikes that would appear to be supplied by the Academy - that to me is a ground breaking move forwards. Kev

As above, listen to the radio link - doesn't appear to dispute is owed, but no repayment term appears to have been in place and now a demand for a lump sum. Secondly, money is virtually free ( cash flow is the bigger problem in any business ) - look at the interest rates. I have no knowledge but would suspect that with sorting out issues from the previous promotion etc there was a good reason why the fees were not demanded at the time - ask the BSPA the question. Of course there is an option, scrap the academy or even close a track - great post, well thought through. Another positive step forward in developing British riders! Kev I think you've partly answered your own quetion Vog - but who sanctioned it? As most of us from Mildy have said from Day 1 - Cameron either is, or isn't eligible end of story. Have heard a few comments about riders not coming through at Mildy - your club had the opportunity to sign them all, any thoughts as to why? Kev

As I did say - take the "tribal" element out of it. Didn't take long for somebody to try and steer away from the topic did it!, not so sure I would be proud of it, but there you go. Will not ignore your points though. I have no idea on the finances so cannot comment, however, if you want to comment why not take the trouble to listen to the radio report - Chris Louis makes quite clear the money is to be paid - although as I understand it there never was an agreement that it was all to be paid in one lump sum this year. Academy development was always a major part of the vision by the new promotion from Day 1, and as I understood warmly welcomed and embraced by the BSPA. You seem to know a lot about Mildenhall finances 1) Do Mildenhall own Heeps? If not Transfer fee? 2) Brundall was transferred to Rye and then refused by BSPA to double up - that is how Heeps fitted in 3) What has Tungate got to do with Mildenhall? One other question for you, IF making money is the objective then why would he then want to spend it? You not wanting to develop British riders eh? Find the mirror. Remember the old saying, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. I agree with most of what Malcolm says, and he has a far greater understanding of the sport than I - but a) I cannot see the overhaul he suggests taking place in any suitable time frame and surely it is better to make a start now and then fine tune - make Mildenhall the catalyst to structually grow from. The alternative is shut eyes and do nothing, something that Speedway seems to be master of which is perhaps why we are in the current situation. Kev

Thanks for the link Badge, well worth listening too. PhilK can't disagree with a word that you say. This topic is probably also worth a seperate thread in it's own right to encompass support for other tracks, and take out any tribalistic posts from others. Many contributors on the forum not just fans but including leading lights such as Messrs Godfry and Vasey are continually banging the drum for development for young Brits - and one would assume that Rob Lyons should have the support of the Chapmans - should maybe lobby the BSPA on this issue. However, Mildenhall. What Chris Louis is asking for appears to be support and time, the benefits would appear to be fast tracking young Brits into the sport - interesting to note that the funds committed to date seem to have come from the Promotion without any funding from the BSPA?, as the BSPA hand wring over, and spout the soundbites, about the lack of British riders then where is their support and commitment? The BSPA take a lot of bad press, a large proportion of it probably rightly so, over the way the current system appears to allow local interests to manipulate proceedings for self interest - is this not the ideal time to not only gain itself some good PR but also to forget the weasel words and be shown to put their money where their mouth is and finally launch a focused development of British riders from the age of 12. It is not hard to see the Marketing opportunity for the sport. As a start - Involve SKY from Day 1 to chart the progress from the first days on a bike through the season ( Monday nights on the dead spots , or cancelled meetings = additional opportunities ) include the best as warm up in the British GP etc, etc - maybe bring back the GP only supporters back to British Tracks. If Mildenhall are forced to close the journey for the youngsters due to lack of support before it starts then some on here should take a long hard look at themselves before they pontificate on the reasons why we look unlikely to provide another British World Champion. BSPA put up or shut up! Kev

Fair pointon Richie but think you may have answered your own question there - although he could have been close to the pace despite not getting a point. Scunny have been a shining example in developing young riders the Iast few years but without naming specific examples from 2011 - that would be unfair on the individuals but regular NL attendees could name a few - it could well be that they will be back in 2012 better equipped and more track time under their belt - riders finishing race after race 1/2 a lap behind will learn nothing. Although on the flip side Stefan Nielsen only listed as a number 8 and Ben Reade dropped by Stoke late on do sometimes leave you scratching your head must admit. Second halves last year in the NL COULD have been vastly improved, and if the Midlands League? mentioned on this forum ( although must admit have seen nothing of ) worked then surely would not a league run after NL meetings be the best route to bring on youngsters?

Agree with you and Shadders having seen a number of NL teams try riders way too early and then drop them after a few meetings simply because they are way off the pace does not help riders / clubs / supporters and Double headers are not the best when it is difficult to get good race surfaces for 2 meetings. Here: I'm happy for the Raiders to go to tapes with two untried youngsters at reserve in 2012 my personal preference would be Dan Greenwood and Brandon Freemantle. Now you have added the word "but" it changes the shape of your statement.

Brandon Freemantle untried??? If the Raiders track a competitive side I suspect that their crowds would increase - as they do with the PL side. Think it through Ben under the current racecard your two untried riders have Heat 2 in ntheir own class only - then on they have to race against the likes of number 4's who often are third Heat Leaders. Scunny were excellent last year but with lads maturing in their second / third year of racing, when they needed to strengthen they did not put newbie 3 pointers in. IMO if you want to bring youngsters through across the board one fair way is for the number 7 berth put in a vultures race each meeting for all teams. Standalone or not I believe for the majority of supporters as a paying customer you want 15 competitive races. Kev

Oh dear oh dear another embittered EL fan - having been a few times this year - witnessed the meeting v Poole when even the likes of Ward & Poole couldn't pass & on another occasion having been covered in shale even on the top steps on bends 1 and 2 I think you hardly have room to talk. Yep you must be right, some of the best meetings this season appear to have been at West Row judging by the comments from neutrals etc on this very forum ( including a few from the Norfolk Arena ). Obviously you have been down to a few this season - which ones? Oh and no dust clouds, no blue lines etc, etc In fact it's been so cack that the crowds have been well up week on week. But never let facts get in the way eh! and allegedly with all that extra cash thrown in ( thanks D of S ). You are obviosly a wind up but why not make better use of your time, just maybe read back through the updates and take a note of the amount of passing each meeting and the "several different riders" may be those who get passed or are just gating tarts. As one example Simon Lambert seems to revel on the track either from the back or when in front so can hardly be purely a homers track. Now that the air fence is up what shall we have next? Too many riders getting rubber burns

I think thereby lies the problem. I think you are wrong in generalising, T there are a few very good Brits coming through ( no disrespect, nor picking on you here ) but maybe Brit fans should give them a bit of time before dismissing. At Ippo you had Jerran this year who given a bit of time will progress - yet all too easily criticised by some Witches fans. Have seen Josh Auty a number of time and he has always been value for money, Adam Roynon if he stays injury free can kick on, Scunny @ NL this year had 4 or 5 riders who SHOULD be given a chance next season not forgetting Jason Garrity. Not so much of a gap between Blackbird and Heeps - remember Lewis started this year ( first in the sport )at reserve and ended up a Heat leader. Cameron IS something special and at 16 has already had a number of years in the sport. Maybe the fact that there are few Brits coming through is the upper two Leagues taking the easy option and plundering Europe for riders with experience rather than running with Brits ( who without being given the chance will ever get the experience ). Maybe as a Sport it is about time TV money etc was passed down the Leagues to allow the likes of the Scunnys, Rye House and the excellent management team at Mildenhall ( not only Heeps, Blackbird but the likes of Dan Halsey making massive strides forward this last season - and Aaron Baseby kicking forwards too ) to expand the network of bringing youngsters on ( no problem either with there being a capped amount of young Aussies etc being included, most of them appear to be excellent role models and have the winning mentality we need to start breeding again and also raise the level of the lower tier). Kev

Echo that Phil - Congratulations to Scunny, and what a way to end a season. This one had it all, anybody who did not enjoy that hasn't got a pulse. The NL is a great product, we have had a fantastic first season back and seen some superb racing - and drawn supporters from far and wide, not all Mildenhall supporters but also people who haven't been to speedway in years. A good close season to all ( even Montie ) and hope to have you all and a few more tracks back next year. Kev

Mildenhall Fen Tigers = 52 (103) 1. Cameron Heeps 3, X, 2*, 3 = 8+1 2. Mark Baseby 1, 3, 2, 3, 0 = 9 3. Joe Jacobs 1, 3, 1, 2* = 7+1 4. Lewis Blackbird 3, 1, 3, 3 = 7 5. Jack Hargreaves FX, 2*, 0, 0 = 2+1 6. Dan Halsey 3, 3, 1, 3, 2 = 12 7. Aaron Baseby 1, 1, 0, 2* = 4+1 When you pick up your medicine can you get some for Scribbler - the rider you are thinking of must be one of those above but none really stand out and looks like a pretty solid team effort. Well done Scunny for Friday, missed it but from the updates looked a great meeting (scoreline apart) looks like they wanted it most on the night and we had an off night. Hopefully a good meeting for tomorrow to round the season off, hopefully Stoke & yourselves back next year NL has in the main been excellent value this year. Kev

Montie read the whole post, instead of the sniping at other teams just acknowledge that you are in it to win it rather than the constant harping of how you are the saviour of Young Brits - when actions suggest otherwise. But you can't help yourself. One rider got us into the play-offs - which one? Cameron has done superbly in the handful of meetings and is deservedly number 1 ( Stefan has been excellent and can still ride Number 7? ), Lewis started the season at reserve and is now a Heat Leader whilst the rest have dug in deep and worked as a team. And no, no idea of the Facebook thing all though have seen it on here. As I said on an earlier post IF R.G. had a hand in anything underhand then quite rightly he should be pilloried - as should any other promoter - but I've not seen anything that supports that, and surely Mildenhall promotion would not have been too amenable to changing dates if bad blood did exist?. Kev

He was doing quite well and making sense until I got to: "But I don't believe it will. There are too many teams out to win at all costs and bringing older riders in." May have been a bit of inner reflection - Smethills, Compton and then Oliver very late on - pot, kettle, black maybe? Be honest, you want to win it and will do whatever you can, and leave others to do the same. Coupled with: Monties comments ( usually makes out he is well informed ) on Belle Vue agreeing to extend the deadline "or maybe they were made to extend the deadline!!!!" - maybe you are right, Mildenhall then moved the date when Scunny would have been without a number of riders. Would hate to lose any club from NL but are we looking at the NL Matt Ford?, if so bye, bye would prefer you not there. Maybe you could look at running for most of the season without re-declaring a side and leaving Nielsen as a Number 8 ( better ave than a lot of other teams reserves ) within the rules but in the spiriit of the NL? Of course the question is has this held back Stefan's career this year? would he have made it into the top 5? - but then again is it part of a win at all cost policy - of course not mentioning is it 4 Double up riders? which of course keeps 4 young Brits out of the sport. Would like all clubs in the NL to be in it to win it, but do not rate hypocrisy. Think Scunny have done a superb job and were execellent at West Row last time around, although from this years team how many did Malcolm bring to the club? Maybe when he left the draw also left? and the young talent will emerge elsewhere. As a club you are better than the wording of some press statements, while great to promote a meeting with some provocation taking cheap shots at others possible not showing the club in the best light, although to be fair, the article could have been misquoted. Kev

Tough one to call m8, not sure on Malcolm's thoughts on us having a slow start though - I thought 1 - 5's were the norm in the early heats:shock: Both Stoke and Scunny have very strong sides, but we have the solid unit with a great team spirit that up to now has pulled us through against the odds. For Tigers I think Dan Halsey could be the key to winning or losing, last couple of meetings he has been flying and also the real JJ turning up and doing what we know he can do. Big ask for the riders and machinery over three solid days, hopefully the boys stay injury free and we couldn't hope for better people to support the riders in the pits Hopefully great weekend ahead and weather looking good, no matter what we have a had a brilliant season and sure the buys will be giving it 100% - the silverware would be great but most important is the strides forward the club has made that will keep us not just running but also growing in seasons to come. Kev

Hope he doesn't You had a change of heart, as recently you were never going again? Kev

Bit harsh, they gave it their all yesterday and have been excellent value at Mildenhall this year - oh, and by the way they finished top of the league, and you have the home leg of the KO Cup final to come - apart from that I can see where you are coming from Considering they were 3 riders down yesterday ( hope all are O.K. ) they really gave it a go - and coming 1 week after an eventful meeting the first two riders out shaking hands with the Mildenhall riders after Ht 14 were Lambert and Pickard, fair play lads that shows a bit of class. Love him or hate him Malcolm has done a superb job for you this year, stick with him. Kev

Best meeting of the year, thrills, spills, heroes and villains - if all meetings were like this we would have packed stadia evey meeting. Has everone gone soft or something? forget about who did what - 14 young lads ( even include "Tommy" in that for getting on with it after 2 bad spills ) with passion and desire to win. O.K. it spilled over but I am sure respective Team Managers will sort it out "in house" - and hopefully anybody spitting etc at riders will be banned, that goes beyond disgraceful. Credit both sets of Managers for calming things down - e.g. Chris Louis took a couple of the Stoke riders into the tunnel while it was all kicking off and I am sure Malcolm would have done similar. Somewhat overlooked as well was the Stoke fightback from 38 - 20 down, good Team management and tacticals full credit for digging in deep when it would have been easier to cave in. For Mildenhall some gutsy performances too, if the next three meetings are as competitive and close will be a great run out to the end of the season. Hope to see the same amount of Stoke fans back too, the ones that were around me were spot on Speedway people. Kev

Interesting point GC, would be interesting to know the answer. Reading the EL forum the general feeling is that certain Promotors can bend the rules in whatever way they choose - allegedly. Not sure that Malcolm would be in favour of deliberate cheating though, I believe that he has more integrity. Kev

Didn't realise that Stoke were that worried!!!!!! Agree most of your comments TMW although Atkins couldn't "take care" of Camo at West Row so not sure how he has improved that much , also we are far from a one rider team. Still enjoy watching him ride though, long may he serve the sport. Maybe this NL should only be used to support and bring on young Brits regardless that flows out of the potteries ( and Scunny ) on the forum really is that shallow - no problem with that, just be honest and say you are in it to win it. Best of luck to Ben for the future and hope that the new lad will quickly progress like Lewis Blackbird has this season. Not overly worried whether we win the league or not, we have had some great racing this year with the crowds well up - and considering we started behind the rest this year what a great endorsement to the promotion. Hope we have 4 cracking meetings and Lambert finally makes the move up to PL full time in 2012 - if not where does NL go from here.

Better late than never eh! The speedway gods must be shining down on you. Would I be right in thinking that if Stefan had ridden at Buxton then he would now have an ave and not be at reserve for any forthcoming important meetings? After previous protestatations from you guys I am never one to believe that either Scunny or Saint Rob would be part of any sort of manipulation, so I don't want you believing that I won't have it Probably just a miracle foresight when the teams were picked or a dyslexic quack. Kev

Thought you normally whinged about reserves on a "false" average Montie Off now to start a petition that anyone with a Scandanavian sounding name ( or any non-English sounding name ) is not allowed to ride in the NL in 2012.