cyclone

In the circumstances I think Worky should be entitled to a guest as they should not have their KOC chances jeopardised in order that the BSI parasites can use their rider at such short notice.

In view of the farces of riders deliberately not finishing in order to fall 8 pts behind (Stoke vs Glasgow, Eastbourne vs Poole, Newcastle vs Reading), it has been suggested to revert to previous tac sub after 6 pts behind. However lets not kid ourselves, riders still threw points away to fall 6 pts behind also. The only solution to arrest this growing trend, is to scrap all forms of tac subs/tac rides, and revert to only permitting reserves to take additional rides in hts 1 -14, with each rider guaranteed a minimum of 3 rides. It ain't new - this is how it used to work in the good old days when the sport had some credibility.

Ken Last (Norwich late 50s/60s) was an unfortunate name as was Mick Bates (Mildenhall), who no doubt had a torrid time when the school roll was read out

Buggy Fleaman (Cardiff 1929). A perfect pair would have been Merv Salt (Teeside ?) & Adrian Pepper(Peterborough) or Gary Rolls (Hackney) & Paul Bentley PS Recall a rider called Bingley Cree who I rodefor Poole in 1948, is this who Mr # Name Removed # is thinking about ?

I was at this meeting, age 14 and stood right at the starting gate (I was one of the first through the turnstyles having queued from 5.30pm). Merlin's account is accurate. Peter Craven did start off scratch. Willie Templeton took part in the original start, but was unfit for the re-run(believe he fainted) and was replaced by reserve Dudley McKean. Norman Nevitt replaced Peter Craven. I have written notes in my programme at the time, which confirm this. If DD wishes to accept fiction, that is his prerogative, but please do not patronise those who were there, regarding "fading memories"

Well ML interesting that you do not refer to the following utterance from yourself:- "Plenty of snide remarks have gone on on the board Cyclone as well you know seeing as you were part of some of it." Please enlighten everyone as to what hard facts you have to support your allegation, or else do the decent thing and apologise for your unfounded statement. Rest assured I do not suffer from paranoia, nor am I initimidated by wee bully girls

You really should read things more carefully ML before responding. If you like to reread my response re stifling, you will see it refers to John Campbell's actions, not of those running the Chatzone. I'm afraid to disappoint you ML, but I never called Mr C a plonker, though I must admit I am not as sensitive as yourself when this term was used in the context it was. Likewise as my identity on this board should not be known to you, unless you are surreptitiously ferreting Forum members id's (touch of 1984 perhaps ), which is highly improper, how can you accuse me of making snide remarks elsewhere ?

A bit harsh Cyclone. Are you saying we the ordinary speedway fan and joe public should be privy to what actually happens at a closed meeting. As I said on the Monarchs ChatZone it doesn't happen in other businesses so why do you think we would hear about it in speedway. I use the word business because first and foremost whether we like it or not a great deal of people's money is invested in clubs therefore it is run primarily as a business first, sport second. BTW I don't see other promoters coming on to a fans board to answer question like JDC does. Whether we happen to like the answers or not is irrelevant. First of all you seem to have ignored that John Campbell has not answered the question, so we cannot say whether or not we like his reply ! See no reason why John Campbell cannot declare how Edinburgh voted on this issue. After all you could find out through public sources how your MP voted on an important national issue. On the Monarchs Chatzone, John Campbell answers what suits him, and even tried to stifle the guy who wishes to raise a national petition on this subject, as you well know. He even made a snide comment about John Lowe's site being "Official" on the Chatzone, purely because of John's protests on this topic, as you also know. If John Perrin can go public on how he voted on this issue, ask the Edinburgh Co-Promoter what is preventing him from doing likewise ?. As you will now be aware other Promoters keep their fans informed by other means also. At least on this site, informed debate of contrasting opinions is tolerated, instead of being expected to toe the Promotion's party line with sycophantic comments

Well he is being more forthcoming than the Edinburgh Promoter who is hiding behind the "such things are confidential" excuse when asked about how he voted on this issue The way he goes on, you think we were dealing with a Freemasons meeting, but then again the silly handshakes would complement the silly rule changes

According to SS, Uncle Len & El Tel were the main instigators of this change, which they are convinced will make meetings more close, as well as ensuring that all seven riders get a fairer share of available rides. Mention was also made that newcomers to the Sport would be more amenable to this change, since they did not have the fixed mindset of existing supporters who know nothing better than tac subs. Looks like there will be no reverse in their decision before the 2004 starts, I suspect, unless most Promoters experience a severe downturn in advance sales of season tickets.

I must have missed this nationwide survey - certainly never heard any of my friends at various tracks singing the praise of Kingsmead, apart from Dick & Les (aka ZZ Top). Both Ashfield & The Shay(Halifax) have football pitches inside them and both produced far more exciting racing than the tepid stuff I saw at Kingsmead on several occasions. Maybe I was unfortunate in the meetings I went, or should I have purchased rose tinted glasses for watching Canterbury Fair ?

Really ! - Agree it was better than Somerton (the worst circuit I have ever watched Speedway at - btw I was a neutral when I saw Ipswich & Belle Vue visit there), but Kingsmead was never anything special, even when I saw the Czechs there in a Test Match.

Will the converse also apply :?: , i.e. PL promoters voting on EL issues :?: Perhaps PL promoters could vote through the same points limit applying to both leagues then :twisted:

If IoW are in the 40 point limit camp, I wonder if this is because Shields & Bird have requested transfers :?: . Under such a scenario it would be cheaper to replace with lower average riders. IoW would not be the first team to have placed self-interest ahead of the common good of the league, so I would not be surprised if this turn out to be their motive for supporting "Stone the Moan" and his stingey cohorts, such as Colin Hill. :evil:

Think this problem relates to the EL structure and the way it runs it's business, which appears to be an unattractive financial proposition for most EL second strings and reserves. You might find that if doubling up was scrapped, this might encourage some PL guys, such as Shields and Bird to move up permanently. By the same token, doubling down should also cease and you wouldn't have those such as Colin White, who ended up unemployed in the PL in 2003 when his former team opted for doubling down. Glad to see that Neil Machin reckons the 45 points limit will remain - sanity prevailing

Agree it should either be 45 including bonus points, or 42 excluding bonus points (thereby reflecting actual match scores). If it were drop to 40, in addition to putting riders out of work (probably 1 heat leader per team), you would probably find there would be an excess demand for riders in the 5 - 7 point range who in turn could raise their demands, thereby defeating the so called cost cutting rationale of a points deduction to 40. Alternatively, I fear that we could end up with top heavy sides which retain their heat leaders and fill positions 4 - 7 with 3 and 4 pointers. Then instead of getting real four man races, in most heats we could also end up with type of racing common in the EL where the big guns slug it out at the front, whilst some way behind, the minnows scrap for 3rd & 4th. In good old rock & roll speak lets keep the Status Quo :!:

Believe the book covering pre-war @ Marine Gardens is out of print. Jim Henry (Clerk of Course) & Ian Moultray(Pits Marshall) were joint authors.

Seems like the ideal opportunity for the British teams affected to claim compensation from the FIM. lol - Gather Lord Lucan is already writing out the cheques on behalf of the FIM in Geneva. I'm sure BSI will invoke their "Send British Speedway to the Taxidermist" clause for next week with the full approval of Terry Russell. :twisted:

Stenners 1950 has an article on BV since start, and list all riders who rode for the club up till then. Unfortunately your grandfather's name does not appear. Perhaps the researchers overlooked him, or perhaps Ronald Hillary rode at Hyde Road, but not in the team.

Danny Lee was a West Ham asset and rode at Edinburgh from 1948 - 50/51. Think that might have been his last team

Kevin & Addict - I see no justification for flippant & humorous remarks in this context. :-( These guys put their lives on the line every time they race and all deserve to be admired for their courage - wonder if you would like to swap places with them in such circumstances :?: . No doubt you will reply with the standard "lighten up" reply to which I would say to you pair : "Grow Up" and think more carefully before considering uttering such insensitive comments :!:

Suggest that any PL to EL moves should be based on final league positions on an invitation by performance merit basis. If any of top 4 PL clubs don't fancy joining the EL, then keep going down the list to see if any wish to join. Who knows you may even have to go the CL, and perhaps Wimbledon and/or Mildenhall might be tempted. Would not be surprised if less than four PL/CL clubs would be enticed up, and perhaps Ipswich might go in the opposite direction also.

To return to the thread, the most distinctive, wide handlebars I've come across where those used by the Aussie World finalist Peter Moore, who came to the UK in 1952 at Long Eaton, and ended his UK career @ Rye House, I think, in the seventies. He was at his peak riding for Wimbledon in the 50's, and Ipswich in the 60's , latterly for Kings Lynne in 1966. Interestingly he was reckoned to be one of the fastest gaters of his time, despite the extravagant cow-horns.

A guy called Dave Robottom was considered the "Coventry Historian" in the 70s and might have produced something. I think he used help compiling the stats for the Coventry prog also.

Charlie Monk started off in the UK in 1962 riding for Trevor Redmond at Neath/St Austell. In 1963 he moved to Long Eaton and in 64 joined TR at Glasgow. IMO his peak season was 1965 when he again imo, closely ran Barry Briggs a close second as top BL rider. Was very unlucky not to qualify for World Final that year (a dubious exclusion in British Final ?) and I think he won the Internationale in 65 also. Eventually moved on to Sheffield & Halifax & rejoined Tigers @ Hampden in between. Rode for Monarchs in Powderhall opening season and seemed to be more comfortable with the fans. Finished his career at Barrow. I think he was unfairly stereotyped as surly - remember he gave me the most carefully written autograph on my prog at Meadowbank in 65. The guy was just shy and introverted at that time.