Gresham

Surely 'Atmosphere' is generated by the racing and not superficial outside influences? It happens at many other sports too...people complain that football has become sterile and plastic in it's atmosphere as well. Loud music being played, a 'Presenter' shouting nonsense for the sake of it, and airhorns...do not make an 'atmosphere'...they just make a barrier of white noise. Also the age demograph of people at Speedway and football is a lot older now. They are less likely to chant...but they will cheer when the riding is good. In fact it's been discussed, that it's the outside influences, like music, and needless talk from a Presenter, that's killing the natural build up of a good atmosphere created by a crowd. Noise for the sake of it....is not an 'atmosphere'. You can feel tension and use all your other senses together, to enjoy a meeting. Sound and it being loud, doesn't mean it's been exciting. Just my opinion...

That can be said of football and Rugby too...saving themselves or dropped for the next 'more important' game. Or not going in hard for a tackle. Must happen in many other sports too. Difference being...they still get paid regardless. Was only talking yesterday about how much riders get paid by their insurance when out injured.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, lest not forget how well documented rides were 'fixed' back in the day. Whilst it was a different system back then, a totally different world, all the riders were driven by the buck to some extent. Owners, Promotors, riders...they were all 'at it'. It's nice to be nostalgic...but times have moved on. Surely it's best to try and find something in Speedway you like and enjoy it now...rather than dwelling on the past. Can't be good for mind or health...surely? Live for now and the future...whilst it may not be to our liking, as is most of the world these days imo, it's no point dwelling on the past. There is still a lot to embrace in Speedway. Salt of the earth fans, still riders trying to earn a buck and ride for there clubs, whilst also doing 'day jobs' like us. Yes you are probably right that Speedway is closer to 'how it used to be' in the lower leagues...but you still see it with certain Prem riders. I try to be philosophical. It's like when you hear people say...'the kids, or world of today!!!!' Well the reason it's like it is because our Generation allowed it. The same for Speedway. Speedway has never in it's truest sense been a 'Team' sport...never. It's always been 7 individuals with their own equipment and engines, masquerading as a team. The powers that be, should have nipped that in the bud back in the day. It would have stopped escalating bills and riders having to pay for expensive servicing and tuning. They 'We' screwed up back in the 'Golden era'. Standardised team engines...club engines...sealed. Low maintenance, low cost...just pure racing. I'm sure half the Clubs that have gone through lack of money would still be running if we had this in place. Our fault...we should have been crying out for this and insisting way before now. In the meantime...try and get to a meeting and embrace what you remembered ;-)

Isn't all sport that involves money and winning at all costs 'corrupt' though? How do you follow Athletics or Cycling as an example? No sport is perfect. Maybe you need to ask yourself what got you interested in speedway in the first place? Was it the rules, the averages, the people? Or was it just being thrilled by watching a bike being ridden at high speed on shale? We can all get embroiled in rules, regs, what riders do or don't etc. It takes over the basic joy of watching a rider power slide a speedway bike. Back in the day...'manipulation' and 'corruption' still happened, if not more. we just see it with rose tinted glasses on. I went to Buxton yesterday. Speedway at it's rawest. My mates nephew rides for Cradley. Seeing some of those youngsters trying to win, and when they did, the joy and exuberance on their faces, made it all worth while. Young Joe Lawlor ecstatic in the pits. The absolute frustration by Danny Ayres of blowing an engine whilst leading...shouting and punching his bike in total despair. Being up close to all the bikes...feeling the buzz. That's what Speedway is about. Forget the GP boys and all the silly rules etc. Just get down to a track again, and see it through clearer less cynical eyes, and try and enjoy again. I have and I'm glad I did. It's not all bad...in fact it's still a very good sport in it's rawest state. ;-)

First time visit to Buxton this afternoon...what a great experience. Total grass roots feel...almost Grasstrack like, being able to watch from your car on the back straight...but what a setting. Definitely a track that takes some getting used to I'd say, especially into bend 2 from 1. Made for some enjoyable watching. Thing that stood out for me also, was the amount of females watching. Wouldn't be far off 50% from what I saw.

You have a point. Which is why I must stop myself getting too involved in looking at averages and team set ups. Note to self...just enjoy the racing. ;-) Which is hard to do, if you think a rider in particular is not riding to his potential, so as to manipulate his average. The same can be said when discussing the pro's and con's of a riders ability and what he scored on the night. We all know how good a rider is when his engine is at it's best...so how can fans discuss the probability of a meeting result, or how a rider performed on the night, if we don't know how his engines were, or whether he was tinkering or trying new things etc. Tungate comes to mind of late...As did Craig Cook last night only scoring 6 trying out a new engine. It's hard to get your head around, even after so many years following the sport. It's between a rock and hard place tbh. Last night I witnessed Richard Lawson on a slower engine to that of Nichols and Harris...but he gated and used superb track craft to block the moves of those riders when he faced them. On other occasions, you see talented riders purely beaten by another's engine and not their skill on a bike. For me, because of that, it's hard to take Team Speedway seriously. As it's all down to averages, which can be manipulated at a cost of losing, and whether you have fast engines or not. I love the spectacle and good honest racing...but sometimes when you have these thoughts lingering in your head it takes the gloss off the sport. I know it's been done to death, but I can only dream of standardised Club engines. You can't blame the engines then, just the riders skill or not.

Think BWD is selling his GM's and going over to Gerhard.

At the cost of his team losing?

Not sure whether this has been discussed before, but has it been known for riders to do this in recent years? I'm presuming so... Was listening to a rider recently who wants a ride in the Championship as well as the Prem. To double up. When asked if he had one lined up, he said he'd had a few phone calls, but that it's a 'numbers game'. Knowing that...and wanting to get signed up, surely it's too tempting not to drop a few points to earn more in the long run?

Indeed they do...and a few more less 'savoury' songs. Not my thing tbh...I leave that to the section 82 lads. I sit in with the old boys in the Dolman quietly moaning about everything lol ;-) as we do... Used to like playing against Swindon. However...I'll be able to watch you next season with my second team. FGR's in the mighty League 2. Mr Cooper coming back to haunt you ;-) Now if only the electric speedway boys had thought of contacting Dale Vince and his Ecotricity empire that is FGR's, and getting a track around the outside of his new proposed Wooden Stadium near Stroud. :-)

Agreed...and although the cynical amongst us may look through it, as when a footballer kisses the badge after scoring, it does however make for a better atmosphere. I can only judge this from what I witness when a rider makes the effort. The cynic in me thought last night...'is this something Lawson has learnt at Glasgow, or does he actually mean it.' Either way...it worked. Tbh...at Somerset, although it has a naturally 'respectful' crowd, when the racing is good, it creates a natural reaction of jubilance and applause. When trying to create 'war cries' etc, it often ends up on deaf ears and no participation. The action on the track creates the atmosphere. Rider participation with the crowd also helps. I did have to laugh though last night...the 'DJ' was playing some rather good Indie Rock music, that leant itself well to the racing...Stereophonics, Kings of Leon...that type of thing. An old Plymouth Devils fan was complaining the whole time about the music. Then the 'DJ' did a Simon Bates moment, and read out a 'love request' to the music of 'Our Tune'...soothing, calming and Romantic to say the least...his exclamation...'that's more like it'...you can't win lol

'Drink up thy zider, drink up thy zider, For tonight we'll merry be....(merry be) We're going down to Wimborne, to turn the Pirates over And there's still more Zider in the jar'... ;-) 'Hello hello...we are the Rebels boys, Hello hello...we are the Rebels boys, And if you are a Pirates fan, surrender or you die, We all follow the Rebels'... 'Yer sister is yer mother, Yer uncle is yer brother, You only s*ag each other, The Pirates family'... 'Flying high up in the sky, We'll keep the rebs flag flying high, Cider heads until we die, We'll keep the rebs flag flying high'... 'We all follow the Rebels, Over land and sea, (and Pirates), We all follow the Rebels, Onto victory.... (repeated) 'My Ol man, said be a Pirates fan...I said '**** off, B*****X...youre a........ ' hahahaha ;-) Can just hear it now from the banks of the Oaktree lol In all seriousness though, it does need a little more input from the riders as well as the fans imo. I noticed last night, Richard Lawson fist pumping to the Somerset fans after his great rides. Took a lap after the race doing it...such a simple gesture, but it led to applause, increased the atmosphere and led to a better 'feeling' amongst the crowd. A simple gesture, that made a difference imo.

Another great night of Speedway. Can only concur to what some others have said. The track was fantastic. Plenty of dirt, and the rain water over the week kept it bound together and provided many racing lines. What a treat. Producing the fastest times of the season. Josh only half a second off the track record in heat 1. It looked ominous on the way down from Bristol...left in Bright sunshine, to be welcomed by a mass of black cloud and the radio reporting local flooding. However...the wind blew in land off the coast, and the clouds never reached the Oaktree. Was really impressed by Cameron Heeps. Loved his riding style too...the new BWD around the Oaktree? The score doesn't really reflect how well Rye rode. Good close racing again, with plenty of passing. A joy to watch. Eddie Kennet performed like our recent Rohan did...very inconsistent. Granted he did take a tumble. Will be interesting to see how the lads get on at Rye tonight, weather permitting. Can't wait for the next home meeting.

I agree...I have a feeling The Rockets could win this one. Hope not...but like you I can see Ryes top order making a big difference. Looking forward to some close racing.

I only went to watch Swindon when Bristol packed in. Interest dwindled around early mid 90's. Probably not long after Andrew Silver leaving. Loved watching him around Blunsden. Then Somerset came along and the interest reignited. I'm hoping the new track when built at Blunsden will give similar type racing to Somerset. Both are roughly equal distance from where I live. I'd be happy to watch both if it became so. I'd be lost to Speedway if it weren't for Somerset.

Has to be...especially when mentioned it's one of the best Speedway Tracks in the Country. Why would you drive past if that's the case? I'm a 'returnee' to Speedway in recent years, and that's down to the great racing at Somerset. I got bored senseless watching at Blunsden week in week out. Plus there is a real 'togetherness' at Somerset. You feel part of something. Debbie and Gary are fantastic. What they've achieved is nothing short of a miracle. Fantastic promotion and fantastic team manager....along with the facilities and great racing and friendly atmosphere. What's not to like? I love the fact that Gary tried to keep the majority of last seasons team. To let them have a go. Somerset have Knocked Leicester out of the KOC, Beaten Belle Vue away...and had three home meetings go to the last heat. The only 'let down' I've seen this season, was the form of Tungate. Never a number 1, but everyone I'm sure would have expected him to score 2-3 more points a meeting? Done that and the results I'm sure would have been slightly better. Would rather watch the great close racing every week, and be excited at watching it, and finish bottom of the league. Than thump other teams by 15-20 points at home on some 'trick track' with massive home advantage. Still don't think Somerset will finish bottom though. I'd rather support and celebrate good close racing, than winning the league any day of the week.

lol...it's got to be the only sport where the fans who follow it, don't understand how it all works, when it comes to team building and averages. Not their fault...too bloody complicated imo. Sorry to see Starkey leaving...no sentiment I suppose. Left with 3 riders from last season now...shame, I like continuity. Hopefully the quality of racing will continue in it's rich vein.

When you actually analyse Club Speedway, it really isn't what it advertises itself as... is it? A team is made up of seven individuals who provide all their own machinery, with the odd exceptions. The Club/Team is reliant on those individuals to provide decent engines and set up. It really is in all honesty...Individual speedway under a 'false banner' of Club speedway, if you get my drift. Club Speedway shot itself in the foot in it's early stages, when it set out it's stall of having riders provide their own equipment. From the very start...Club standardised machinery should have been the norm. It's too late now to turn back the clock, a precedent has been set...and it is how it is. You can be watching many races...and you know in your heart of hearts, that regardless of how well a rider starts, he will be beat by the rider with the best engines and set up in that race. In the modern day....even more so, with the tracks the way they are and the high revving engines. I watch riders who have tremendous ability on a bike and track craft, yet he won't beat a 'lesser' skilled rider because of the difference in engines. It's often frustrating as a spectator to watch. Too much reliance on who has the best engines in speedway imo. Fine in 'Individual' meetings...but in Club League Speedway it just doesn't make sense to me. Hence my now 'nonchalant' way of enjoying League racing. I avoid the regs, rules, averages, just look at the programme to see the riders names and helmet colours, and enjoy watching them race. I don't even bother filling the programme in now either. It works for me doing it this way now....and I enjoy my Speedway much more for it. It's not a habit anymore...I actually look forward to my weekly fix now. Each to their own of course...others will find other ways of enjoying it. Which is cool.

Some thought provoking posts on this thread. There was a time when I knew every riders name, who they rode for, and studied the averages. It also used to mean something if my team won. Now...all I'm interested in, is watching four blokes race their hearts out, give their all, and to be entertained and exhilarated in the same way I did in my youth. Winning the league or even some meetings means nothing imo...as the rules make everything so hollow. If it were two teams of riders on similar machinery and similar skill, winning races purely from their track craft, then I'd get it. But so often it's not....and over a season it just means less and less. Watered down. It has nothing to do with who has the best team of skilled riders over a season imo. It's all about being clever with averages, RR's, Guests, who has the fastest and best tuned machinery, not so much the skill of the riders at this level. ( for example we all know Tungate is far better than his current average, not because he's lost form, but because of machinery ) Had he had better machinery, it's highly possible that Somerset would have won their last three home meetings. Then you have the farce of coming fourth in a league of 8 teams, and having the chance to win the league and become Champions. Take all those things into consideration, and I'm really not sure how anyone can feel great about being Champions. The same can be said of other motorsports like F1...all the drivers are pretty much the same standard...the same in certain levels of Speedway. It's purely the engine that dictates who wins to much of a degree. Thankfully....the Oak tree gives great racing every week. I'm thankful for that. Give me great racing any day, over rules and regs and what team has won. Hopefully there are likeminded fans at Somerset, who wont leave in their droves if Somerset continue to lose, as they've got used to winning. Seeing Josh, Charles, Jake and Starkey and last season BWD riding with such determination and skill, even if they don't have the very best engines, is worth every penny imo. Just enjoy the racing for what it is and forget about all the silly rules is now my motto ;-)

Such a shame all the talk is about Rules and Guests and who won. All overshadowing what another great meeting this was. Another cracker at the Oak Tree. Some fantastic close racing with every rider giving it their all. If you were a neutral...and didn't know about the rules and guests etc, And you just watched, and enjoyed the racing for what it was, then I'm sure you would be back for more. On a side note...it was great to see so many fans from other teams making the journey to watch. Swindon, Poole, Exeter, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Coventry, just some in my vicinity. Another positive, is how quickly and well run the meetings are this season. Very few delays. All over by 9.20pm. Sod the result and the silly rules...Speedway Racing won tonight.

I'm sure you are right fella, some riders will be on a lot less than others. But SOME riders are on fantastic money from their sponsors. I only mentioned what one rider 'allegedly' earns...and that was from another rider, who's never been wrong with his info before, so I'm not likely to disbelieve him this time. I've heard the spiel first hand to potential sponsors...I'm sure you have too ;-)

Agreed...it's not the prize money, but the sponsorship. One rider mentioned to me, takes approx. £48,000 per GP. £4000 per Polish meeting, £3200 per Swedish and £2800 per British, when here. That's regardless of what they score per meeting....absolutely no incentive to do well here or be committed.

I totally agree. I'd rather see no GP riders racing in this Country. Would much rather watch 'middle order' riders giving 100% commitment, riding for their Club and having their best machinery here. After hearing yesterday what some of the GP riders take home after appearing in each GP, then I understand why some of them have no interest in riding for Clubs in this Country and being committed. You can earn more in one GP, than what you would doing all your home meetings. Said it before...would much rather watch and be entertained by some 'middle order riders', giving it their all, on similar tuned bikes, than watching a GP rider on the very best machinery blast it around at the front. GP's are competitive and entertaining, because the riders all have highly tuned, expensive fast bikes. It even's them out. I really don't see the 'Entertainment' in watching a GP rider roar away from 'middle order' riders, in a Club meeting, just because he has the funds to spend on tuning his bikes and make them faster.

It would be an interesting stat, to work out how many meetings are completed by each team using their own riders. And how many have been completed by either using guests or the RR facility. Speedway as a 'Club' sport, has always been 'loose' when it comes to riders representing a team. Each season it changes...riders representing different teams year after year. It's always seemed so very hollow when following 'your team'. A small amount of riders to choose from...hence it sometimes feels like you are watching the same old riders week after week. I was very pleased when Somerset announced their team this season...only two changes in personnel. It really makes a difference to me. I prefer it when you can make that connection with the same riders representing your club. Would be nice to see BWD and ZACH back next season, and the other 5 of this and last years team improving to make a stronger and more experienced septet for next season....averages allowing.

Funny how everyone enjoys their Speedway differently. I wasn't fussed about seeing Holder blast around the OTA...but I'm gutted I'm going to miss Cookie and Shanes racing there tonight. Having the 'best in the world' win every race emphatically by a country mile is not entertaining imo...if up against similar riders of GP standard, then it can be. I'd much rather watch 'middle order' type riders, like Wrighty, Allen and Starke giving it a go, and getting in the mix with similar standard opposition. Cookie is great to watch around the OTA...been to all the meeting so far this season, and they have all been excellent quality racing. Should be a cracker tonight without Holder...shame I can't make it. COYR Rebels :-)