Gresham

Hi H A...Annoying bloke here...out of interest...is there any other sport that pays for travelling to a meeting/game? Can understand individual one off's etc...but weekly games/meetings?

Indeed they would...and let it happen I say. Lets start again. Boom...Oh hang on...lets not rattle any cages here...don't want to upset the establishment ;-) Fingers in pies...using speedway tracks as a tax loss on other businesses...couldn't give a flying about the future or supporters! Not all...but ho hum...lets all stick our heads in the sand. My knowledge of detective series is rather less then my knowledge of speedway and running a club...but let that not get in the way of facts...or that I really want to go there. However...we can agree on one thing...I think you love Speedway as much as me...maybe more...and we all want the best for it. Some want it to change ( that will include me ) others will be quiet happy to go along with it...because they might know someone in the game. Either way...I do know that some bloke coming on to a forum out of the blue for some time, and giving it all, will really piss some people off. ;-)

Ahhh...I used to own an Orion back in the day...had those pepper pot alloy wheels...lovely bright shade of red. Used to fly up to Blunsdon in it regularly :-) Unbelievable amount of posts there fella/lass 21,000 +...I'm honoured to have made your jaw drop. Thing is...you've only read part of it...RR wouldn't exist if I had my way....Nor guests... I'd tear up the book and start again with different rules. These team colours are causing a storm...unbelievable isn't it. I find it fascinating that we rode for years...including the glory years...when we were the second highest average attended sport in the uk...and I didn't once hear, ' this is ridiculous, I can't see who is riding for who...it's a bloody blur'. I have however heard the words regularly voiced...'it's like watching a hurricane taking all the washing off the line, and whipping it down the back straight'...or words to that effect ;-) Out of interest...has anyone ever looked at a Clubs or riders sponsor and thought...'bugger, I must go and buy whatever product they are selling'? I know I haven't...apart from in 1978 when Durex sponsored meetings...was all a bit of a giggle back then asking Dad 'What the hell is Durex'? :-) My jaw is dropping to the fact people are getting up in arms about team race suits... Glad I amused you though Orion...as did your avatar...filmed in Bristol if memory serves me right :-)

There's a children's section...? Fantastic...I bet you're the Headmistress ( although feels more like a Dictatorship )...lead the way ;-) How you can talk for other people, and know how they feel? Almost God like...it's quiet an astonishing quality. God knows ( that'll be you by the way ) how we managed to watch riders race for many years in just black leathers, two different coloured race jackets and really small helmet covers ( I'm not offay with the dimensions, perhaps you can let me know, you seem good at that ). I can't remember any of us saying...'who the hell is leading? I wish we had some flashy team race suits covered in loads of sponsors...that'll do it'. And guess what...you could also see the back of the race jacket...with a big shiny number on it...often in a different colour. Pretty advanced technology I know...but lets not digress here. Next time i'm watching Belle Vue v Swindon I'll think of you ;-) As for the football...I'll remember to tell them to get rid of all the sponsors emblazoned all over their bodies...and damn the away team...how dare they turn up in an away strip of colours not clashing... As for smoking...I don't...but my drink of choice, is a nice bottle of single malt Scotch entitled 'the voice of reason' it has hints of sweetness, subtle undertones of sarcasm and a lingering taste of nuttiness ;-)

God damn you FH...how did you get to use a smillie?...I'm tres jealous. ( Insert laughing happy emotion for effect ) How many fingers are you using in that handshake...I'm obviously doing something wrong ;-)

Blimey...keep your knickers on... Like I said, we can agree to disagree. You obviously find it easier...Whilst myself and others find it easier to pick riders out, who aren't adorned in lots of sponsors and a multitude of colours. I've watched Speedway since the mid 70's...and since the introduction of more sponsorship on kevlars, often smaller club emblem and bike and handlebar covers adorned with sponsorship and colour, it has for many I know, been harder to follow a race. So I'm afraid you are wrong PERIOD...very wrong...as you can't speak for everyone. Some obviously prefer it...but not everyone. I like the way you find a word like 'pick' to back up your argument though. 'Pick' was obviously the wrong term to use...perhaps 'STAND OUT' would have been better. I'd love to back up my thoughts with photos...but it seems this forum doesn't let you upload pics or put links to them. I've asked this three times on this forum...with never any reply. Is it like the Masons...do I need some secret handshake to get accepted and allowed to use such features? The options are there...but they won't work for me. A quick question...you don't own the company that supplies kevlars to teams do you? Edit...I tried to add some smilies and emotions...but it won't even let me do that...all very odd.

We will have to agree to disagree then. I'd love to post pictures as evidence...but it seems this forum doesn't allow you to do this...even links to pictures? But look at any picture of riders racing now...and it is 'just too busy' as CH958 implied... look at pictures of racing from the 70's and 80's where Race jackets were simple and defined and not blocked out by handlebar covers...and it was very easy to pick out who was riding for who.

I'd beg to differ...that's my experience and many I have watched speedway with. Visually...there is way too much going on. Combine four riders in multi coloured kevlars, and a flurry of bike covers, that are also different colours...and it is indeed harder to pic out. Four riders in black leathers and just chrome bikes...you could easily pick out the colour of race jacket and helmet colour...because that was the only bright colours. I'm not saying to go back to black leathers...but less is often more. Perhaps if Promotors did start listening to fans rather than riders...we wouldn't have the dwindling crowds. How you think seeing a mass of different colours, covered in sponsors, racing at speed is easier to define, than a bold race jacket on simple contrasting kevlars is beyond me.

Yes it was easier...from a distance, with the amount of advertising on the suits, added to the mass of colours on the bike covers...then it becomes just a blur of different colours. Plain and simple...is both striking and outstanding from a distance. Of course 'results' matter but not at the expense of other parts of the sport. 'The overwhelming majority of fans' left, who care mainly about the result...are the minority of the ones who have walked away from the sport, because results at all costs are a major factor to why attendances are dropping.

Appreciate the response...And you are correct, I had no reason to expect abuse based on how people have responded to me. I based it purely on how other threads on this forum have turned out. And yes...I agree...team suits are the least of Speedways worries. As for Speedway 'dying'...I still believe it is in it's domestic form. Based on ever decreasing numbers attending. Interesting that you say 'speedway needs to continue adjusting to fast moving trends'...can you expand what you mean by this? As for Speedway peaking and troughing...I'd be interested to know what you think could make it peak again.

I've not said anyone has abused me. Just saying I was expecting it because it was a strongly self opinionated post...and it was you who was 'irked' by the wording of some of my post. I asked you whether you thought the sport was doing ok...I didn't say it was. I'm not on a high horse...just chatting about the pros and cons of speedway and how it could be improved. I'm glad you answered your own questions...because I was not referring to anyone on this thread. I'm more interesting in sparking a debate on what could make the sport better...apologies if my post and how it comes across 'irks' you...not my intention...neither is it to get into a twit for tat pedantic conversation. Regarding team suits...It was just my opinion...which I would say was a given based on me posting it. You haven't given your opinion on them...just an opinion on the idea being subjective. Surely the idea of a forum is for everyone to give their own opinion...and for others to give their own? For what it's worth... the idea of team suits and race jacket (or emblem printed into suit)...is for anyone watching, to CLEARLY recognise on the track when racing as to who is who? Plus to give a feeling of racing for a Club/team rather than a bunch of individuals?

Such a shame...is there no way an exemption form couldn't be signed? Or would Insurance cost too much? Indeed...never been so scared in all my life...and that includes sky diving and worlds highest bungee jump

I suppose it depends on what entertains you 'Oldtimer'. I'm happy watching the racing, chatting to friends between races, having a beer and listening to any interviews or reading programme notes. The majority of attempted Entertainment I've seen in the past at Speedway and other sporting events is generally poorly executed or cringe worthy. The only one that held my attention was the men in black vintage racing exhibitions. I wonder how many fans of speedway have actually sat on a bike and turned the throttle and felt the power? Always wondered why one couldn't be put on a stand and fans allowed to sit and give it a rev for a small donation...H&S I expect. Having ridden a bike...it certainly gives you far more respect.

haha...I think you maybe right...got my races muddled up. Was a long time ago :-) Obviously two different races ;-)

Disagreeing with rational counter points is fine...no problem with that...and yes, I've seen the 'team' kevlars. they are bloody awful. Too complicated. Great for a close up photograph...but hopeless when watching a meeting from a distance. Fine if you disagree...but do you think the sport is doing ok? What changes if any are needed? The sport is dying...yet people seem quiet happy to let it, and just bicker over how a post is written or other trivia...

I'll post here, instead of replying to every post...but appreciate the replies. The reason I prefer a junior rider or contracted squad rider over a guest or RR, is because I'm not fixated with the result. I'd rather see a Clubs rider given the opportunity to ride against better riders, and challenge himself, and enjoy watching his determination to improve and gradual development. I couldn't give two hoots as to the result...backs to the wall stuff. Having been away from Speedway for a while, although not in the wilderness, I've come back with an open mind and haven't been living in the 'Speedway bubble'...where it is easy to be sucked in. I can see so many faults to Speedway...it will eventually die if it's run the same way. The biggest problem I see with Speedway is it's identity. Speedway really doesn't know what it is. It has an identity crisis. Is it an individual sport or a team sport? It's neither one or the other. As a 'team sport' it's been allowed to develop into a random bunch of riders, changing teams pretty much every season, and racing against one another. Constantly changing clubs. Each rider has his own machinery...his own kevlars, his own sponsors...they all look different...there is no Club identity like you get with other sports. Each season...the powers that be, get together and change the rules constantly to fit these riders into a system that may work. It doesn't. I have a copy of backtrack and speedway star in front of me. Looking at Backtrack...I see pictures of riders and the one thing that jumps out at me, is the Clubs simple but distinctive race jackets. I know exactly who each rider is racing for. I see the Club badge...the Club. Looking at Speedway star...all I see are a myriad of sponsors names...I'm squinting to make out which rider is riding for which club... Speedway needs to concentrate on the Club more...a team...a bonding. Fans can relate to that like they do in other sports. If riders want to ride in Individual meetings then let them. Let them get their own sponsors etc. Go off and race like a Road Racer or Moto X rider. However...for Domestic Club racing to work...imo, it has to collapse and start again. For the long term benefit of speedway as a whole. We need standardised club bikes. Sponsors that sponsor the clubs more, and not individual riders. Simpler distinctive club race jackets. Club kevlars. Club bike covers. Club riders that race for one club...part time. Speedway shouldn't be the sole income for a rider. A first team, second team and academy. Bring costs right down...almost to an amateur status. Let their be an Individual GP circuit and other individual events...but don't let it effect the domestic club scene. From what I can see...Riders are ruling this sport. They are all striving to be like their Road racing and Moto X counterparts...but there isn't the same money floating about. Clubs should take stock...Promotors should rule the roost and make dramatic changes...not fanny about every season. Every season they send a message out to the fans that something isn't right with the sport, because of the constant tinkering. How you also expect to race in Britain with our weather, and think it's ok to keep cancelling events because of some rain is farcical beyond belief. Has anyone worked out how many cancellations there are in a season yet? Like no other weekly club sport I can tell you. The sooner people realise this the better...looking at how many clubs are struggling and closing and people walking away, I can't grasp how promotors just keep doing the same thing over and over again...utter madness. Sod the riders...If they don't like it...walk away. Clubs and promotors have to take the bull by the horn and change things dramatically. If it means almost starting again then so be it. Expecting a pile of abuse and people making excuses saying it could never happen...but they'll be the one's bemoaning speedway being dead at their track soon.

Actually...yes I would prefer to see a Junior rider move up in to the 7. Like many other sports...injuries take place, and the club have to use a 'squad' member to replace that injured team member. Why does it make it less a spectacle? If anything...it does the opposite. The fans get behind the replacement rider and urge him to do well...knowing it's a struggle. You watch that rider doing his best...hopefully improving, and getting better with each ride and gaining invaluable experience. Plus we have rules in place where tactical rides can be taken from other riders. So I don't see a problem. Your last sentence is very relevant though...and another reason why the rulebook needs to be torn up and started again.

I can't ever remember a football team turning up and starting a game with 10 men. Without being pedantic...it is one thing in Speedway that really irks me and I know from speaking to others in the past, I'm not alone. As someone returning to the sport after a long lay off, I'm trying to see with fresh eyes, ways of improving the sport and thinking of ways to make it more appealing to the public and bring back fans who have left.

Indeed...Speedway needs to go back to when riders didn't see Speedway as their major source of income. Speedway riders seem to want to be the equivalent of their road racing and Moto x counterparts....without the backing. For the average fan or person off the street...are they really going to be more entertained by top riders, on expensive machinery, being paid a fortune, than four riders on 'standard machinery' of Premier league or National league standard? I'll add to this as a form of edit...was really looking forward to watching Somerset v Scunthorpe on Friday...however I am reconsidering going now, as I always feel cheated when a team uses RR. I'd get rid of RR...guests or reserve contracted rider only. I want to see a full team...what other sport turns up with a team member missing?

Thanks for the kind words...I think you are spot on in many ways. Having spent a great part of my younger life revolving around speedway, I find it very difficult to not immerse myself fully into it again. Unfortunately that's my nature...it's all or nothing in most things I do. I think many of us of a certain age are nostalgic, and we often see something from the past with rose tinted glasses...so i'm going in more open minded, as I know it won't be the same. I used to watch regularly with my father, my two pals and their father. He was an ex rider and his knowledge of bikes and tracks was invaluable. He could listen to the tone of an engine and tell whether it was over or under geared...info like that during a race was immense. Unfortunately he passed away last year, so his info will be sadly missed...and my father can no longer see very well...despite that, I'm hoping to take him and get near the start gate, so he can feel the vibration, hear the noise, smell that burnt Castrol R and get some quality time together...plus bring back some great memories and forge new ones. In reply to 'Ommer Mon'...many a fond memory watching at Cradley. Loved it there...even though it seemed to be falling apart...it had character. I have a race imprinted on my brain from the late 80's early 90's of one of my fav riders, Peter Nahlin, winning from being almost half a lap behind after two laps. Memory is a bit hazy...but i'm sure it was Jan o'pederson and Eric Gunderson who he rode down...one of them falling off after the race finished. T'was also my first introduction to pork and apple...what a revelation as a young en...still in the shadow of the cheese and onion crusty rolls they used to serve on the back straight at Blunsdon mind...the simple pleasures in life ;-)

That's a shame...it would be most useful. Maybe a list could be made on here and eventually pinned at the top of the forum?

...getting back into the sport after a long lay off. Is there a list or link to various Speedway websites?

It's a bit of a catch 22 in many ways...indeed the quote 'Speedway is about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes. Anything else is more or less fluff' is most apt. But for me, and i'm sure many others...knowing a little about the riders, their history and circumstances certainly brings a deeper enjoyment from each race. For example...turning up and just watching four blokes racing can be exciting...but each rider is more experienced than the other, and without knowing that, can leave you scratching your head as to why one is half a lap behind. On the meeting I attended...I would never have known about young Henry Atkins, his age and it being only his second meeting after moving up from Club mascot. That little bit of knowledge made the races he was in, even more enjoyable...as it gave you a better understanding. Speedway sucks you in...and you get so much pleasure from knowing more about the sport...unfortunately that also means you hear all about the crap as well, which then tarnish's your enjoyment. In reply to Oldtimer...Gresh was a childhood favourite :-)