Gresham

Where have I said I don't like it? It's certain people I find weird...like yourself...but not the forum. I decided to change my mind...got a problem with that. I haven't seen one post of yours that's credible, so touche... and I'll say something completely different because you've got it all wrong...again :-) I've posted numerous times about how it could be improved, but never that I didn't like it... and I've started going again...why would I go if I didn't like it? I find it hard to understand, why people like yourself troll others, and make so many flippant comments. Problem is...you and a few on here, read one thing, and then make up in your mind something you want to believe...you don't actually read what people are saying or are getting at. You pick a few points out of a context of a post, then twist them to fit your agenda. Like above...people were getting on chatting, then you turn up and make a flippant comment. You have a very simplistic view on many things...is there a reason for that...I'm guessing there is :-)

4 blokes going round in a circle... 22 blokes kicking a football... Load of F1 cars going around a track... Bunch of guys hitting a ball into 18 holes... Yep...it's definitely all the same...it's never changed... Matron!!! ;-)

Cowley was one of my favourite tracks/stadiums to visit. Everything about it seemed just right. Good view, compact, good track and right size imo...plus the most important thing, generally well prepared that gave good racing. It also came across as very professional and polished. Hans really had an aura about him there. That 1989 team were fantastic...nearly all Brits...Wigg, Dugard and Cox...how exciting were they to watch around Cowley. Funnily my favourite memory of Simon Wigg was when he was a young en at Weymouth racing with Martin Yeates.

I used to enjoy my visits to Cowley when following Swindon...like you say, the crowd for the derbies was always good. The racing was always good and that made for a vociferous crowd and lots of banter :-) Used to love watching Leigh Adams and Andrew Silver give it all against your boys...good times :-) Funnily Bend 3 was always my favoured position at the Abbey...you'd get to see them fly into the corner and see them calculating their next moves...plus any goings on behind the pits. Unfortunately it's too damn cold and windy on bend 3 at Somerset...which is a shame.

Arguably the best rider ever for consistency.

I give up... you are wrong...FACT...because you can't read and can't comprehend posts written by other people. Read the damn posts properly. The Evidence is quiet clear for everyone to see...what I am talking about is completely different to what you are trying to imply. It's like having a conversation with someone from another planet. It's like saying if 50,000 people were stood around watching paint drying, then it would be exciting. 'Ooooh lets all get excited...the paints drying really fast...look there's even a drip...come on the drip!' It's the racing that makes it exciting...not the amount of people there. Whether you've got 50,000 or 500...people aren't going to get excited if the racing is rubbish. Now do you understand? Or do you really believe it's really the size of the crowd that makes a sport exciting, regardless of what going on the track/pitch? Those people in attendance need to get excited about something. How you can't understand that is beyond me. Tiresome you say...kinnel... nail on head...seriously get off the meds or whatever you're taking, no one can seriously be this stupid can they?

Get over yourself, nothing worse than someone being offended for a third party. What are you the forum Police? No abuse given...and none was taken. People can find others infuriating and obnoxious, and say it like it is, without it being abuse...which is a very strong word, I should tread more carefully if I were you, before you go throwing accusations around. Just trying to agree to disagree with someone in an adult fashion without spin being put on posts...perhaps a few of you should take a hard look at yourselves as it's very apparent there is a very small clique on here, that are very vocal and that have made thousands of posts and are very aggressive in their manner to anyone who dare stand up to them. Perhaps that humility and warmth I spoke about, might attract some newcomers...or is it one of those forums where a few sit around congratulating themselves on how high and mighty they think they are. It certainly comes across that way...

That's not abusing anyone...it's stating a fact. I find them obnoxious and infuriating. The fact they spin words to fit their agenda, however much you try to make it simple for them to understand. Them repeating the same words and saying someone is wrong all the time, doesn't make them easy to warm too. I can agree to disagree...but trying to spin words is unacceptable. So it's either spin, not understanding, or complete obnoxiousness and an unwillingness to agree to disagree. It seems there are a small band of people on here with thousands of posts, that seem to think they rule this forum...just because they've been vocal on a forum doesn't mean they know everything. They are easy to spot when reading posts...a vocal minority...yet there are some very warm and intelligent people with no agenda or aggressive behaviour who seem to know their onions who have been around far longer than me on the earth. Some humility by some could go a long way to making this forum a more pleasant place to debate. Anyone would think a lot of meds were being consumed on here.

Wow...you really have lost the plot. It's unbelievable how you write posts with such authority saying someone is wrong, when you clearly haven't understood a word that's been written. I'm writing in plain English, trying to make it simple for you, and still you don't understand. There is no evidence that proves me wrong to what I have said...maybe to what you think...but not to what I have written. I've not said racing is less exciting because of a small crowd...I've said atmosphere is improved when there is good racing. If there is good racing, then crowds return. Put good racing and crowds together and yes, you get a better atmosphere. How much more simpler can I write it....not being funny, but you are either on a wind up, or not able to understand plain English when it's written. Like someone else said...I find you the most infuriating and obnoxious person on this forum...you should take up Politics.

We will have to agree to disagree...of course you need an atmosphere. But to create a good atmosphere, you need excitement. That excitement is created by good racing. Watching tv, you don't feel the excitement like you would live. Good racing, creates excitement, which contributes to a good atmosphere. Take away good racing and you lose excitement, so you lose the atmosphere...and gradually over time if that's consistent, you lose the crowds. You can create an atmosphere, like you get at Cardiff, because it's once a year. Attend that every week and people would get bored. I've sat watching Man Utd in a crowd of 50,000 and it was like a library...because the game was poor. Get a good game and the excitement and atmosphere return...see where I'm going here. Why do you think people went to Speedway in the first place...because there was an atmosphere or because of the racing? People go to watch racing...if it's good, it creates the atmosphere and excitement. You can get excited watching racing in a small crowd, but people don't show it outwardly so much because they look like some demented freak. Do it in a big group and people tend to join in. I think we are never going to agree though...but please realise some people, in fact a great many, who have walked away, have done so, not because the atmosphere was bad, but because the racing was less exciting. I've not heard one person say to me 'I don't go anymore because the atmosphere is bad'...I do however hear people say they don't go anymore because they find the RACING boring.

Kinnel...it's like banging my head against a brick wall...Have you been sniffing methanol? Read my posts properly...I've explained numerous times why the racing was better...IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT OVERTAKING...LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU? Please read my posts again before you reply. I've GIVEN NUMEROUS REASONS ABOUT TRACKS, BIKES, THROTTLE CONTROL, RACING LINES ETC. Unreal...no wonder so many people fall out with you.

Watching videos is one thing...actually being at the meeting is another. You say you remember all those meetings from the 80's and 90's and how brilliant the racing was...yet when you watch them again on TV it isn't how you remembered. Now what does that tell you? It tells you that you thoroughly enjoyed all those meetings you attended, you have great memories...not bad. Then you watch them on tv and it doesn't seem the same...what does that tell you? It tells you that watching live speedway is far better than on tv. Watching it on tv doesn't give you the whole perspective, the sound, or noise, or smell...or the different aspects at watching each rider control and race their bike according to the conditions. What you see on tv, is not the same as being there. Your memory tells you it was good...because it was. You don't seem to grasp the difference between racing today and racing in the past...tv doesn't show that clearly enough. How you can say Speedway's lack of success isn't down to excitement and down to poor marketing is beyond me. You can market all you like, and make something look 'cool'...but if people turn up and the product isn't exciting, then people won't come, however cool you've tried to make it look. You can't polish a turd...because people soon see through it. Fans are walking away in their droves...not because it isn't cool, speedway has never been 'cool'...people are walking away for many reasons, and one of them is a very basic....tracks that are able to be ridden with various racing lines and at least a chance to pass. Bring back the basics, and people will return...you would also have to market it well again to get people back. But once there...if the racing is good...then they will keep going. Now try and read that Witcher...and try to understand it before you reply with some drivel about watching videos...it's totally different...and your brain told you that it was good for a reason....because it was.

I wasn't going to bother anymore...but these last few posts have really annoyed me. A few posters on here who are very vocal and aggressive in their posts, get in a right pickle because they actually don't read posts properly and seem to just pick bits to suit their blinkered agenda. For example...these vocal minority seem to have a go at anybody who questions the racing of today. They are adamant, because they've seen videos, that racing is exactly the same as how it used to be. They couldn't be further from the truth. Yes...it wasn't overtaking on every race and yes, often races were strung out like so often today. However...that's all they focus on. The tracks and bikes were completely different. The tracks had to be ridden differently. The riders had to use different skills and different throttle control to now. It was more exciting...even 10 years ago it was exciting. The fact people are walking away because, like other people on this thread, because they find Speedway less exciting, speaks volumes. It's not just about the outcome of the race...it's the race itself, the bikes and track set up, whether it's got grip, a little dirt, various racing lines, and at least a chance for a rider to try and overtake on different lines. That's the difference to Speedway as it sits today. Now watch someone come back and say the opposite, because they've seen some videos on youtube....yet people who were actually there say it was different...beggars belief sometimes.

You beat me by one fella...unfortunately I've never watched Moore, Fundin or Sczakiel race live...but I've seen all the others and Holder and Woffinden. You didn't get to see Craven then? Shame...would loved to have seen him :-) Hopefully by sneaking down to this part of the forum I can find a civil conversation...bit nuts up top ;-)

Owning other businesses and spreading losses is not 'fiddling the books'...I suggest you look into it. I find it completely weird that someone will spend so much time, trolling people on a forum, just because they don't like what the other person says. Each to their own...now't queer as folk and their little entourage. Think i'll not contribute to this forum anymore...it's all a bit weird for my liking. Have fun with the next poor sod who disagrees with you. Can see you rubbing your hands with glee, and a big smug grin on your face...well done keyboard warrior. It takes a special kind of stupid, to read a post and continually not get the gist of them...You definitely win on that score...

It has crossed my mind that half the problem with Speedway is the travel involved. Not sure there is any remedy for it tbh.

You make a fair point... although I think it's good to give an accurate discussion, rather than a completely one sided one. I speak fondly to people I know about speedway...and am planning to take my loved one and her son to their first speedway meeting soon. They are excited about going. I also took 3 new people last season and they want to return, when it's warmer. I've read some good things recently about Speedway on here and on other media formats...I even watched a Polish meeting that had come up as exciting. I've found forums are generally places where people vent their frustrations and make constructive criticism, as they are generally frequented by fans already into the sport.

Well I'm not old enough to remember those days...but can remember watching Bristol in amongst 10,000 odd on a Friday night and Wembley in 78...and you are correct, attendances have tumbled...they are frighteningly low nowadays. As other threads on this forum have discussed, and there seem to be many reasons for this...I do find it strange that a sport can dwindle to so little crowds, when it was once the second highest attended sport in the country. As the OP said...ALARMING.

Whilst I understand the gist of your post...comparing Wembley in London at the height of attendances, to little ol' IOW, which only has a population of 130 odd thousand is a bit extreme, wouldn't you say?

Reading the thread 'Alarmingly low crowds' got me thinking about my own 'local' tracks and the catchment area they have to work with. My nearest two tracks are both 40 and 42 miles away...both can be reached by motorway, and take an on average an hour to drive to. The former can take up to two hours some Fridays as the motorway is often congested with holiday traffic. Someone posted about Berwick's crowds being slightly up and that the promotors had been pro active. I don't think anyone would know Speedway still exists within an hour of where I live...have never seen it advertised or promoted. How far do you travel, and how far away do promotors advertise and expect people to travel from? It's never really crossed my mind before.

Reading the thread 'Alarmingly low crowds' got me thinking about my own 'local' tracks and the catchment area they have to work with. My nearest two tracks are both 40 and 42 miles away...both can be reached by motorway, and take an on average an hour to drive to. The former can take up to two hours some Fridays as the motorway is often congested with holiday traffic. Someone posted about Berwick's crowds being slightly up and that the promotors had been pro active. I don't think anyone would know Speedway still exists within an hour of where I live...have never seen it advertised or promoted. How far do you travel, and how far away do promotors advertise and expect people to travel from? It's never really crossed my mind before.

Reading the thread 'Alarmingly low crowds' got me thinking about my own 'local' tracks and the catchment area they have to work with. My nearest two tracks are both 40 and 42 miles away...both can be reached by motorway, and take an on average an hour to drive to. The former can take up to two hours some Fridays as the motorway is often congested with holiday traffic. Someone posted about Berwick's crowds being slightly up and that the promotors had been pro active. I don't think anyone would know Speedway still exists within an hour of where I live...have never seen it advertised or promoted. How far do you travel, and how far away do promotors advertise and expect people to travel from? It's never really crossed my mind before.

Perhaps some do not say things directly, but it is a general feeling given, not necessarily on this particular thread, but in general across different topics on this forum. Certain people seem to pick and be pedantic, and pull small parts of a post to bits, instead of seeing a post in it's entirety and how it is meant. I've no interest in talking about 'who said this, who said that', how they said it, pulling apart peoples posts or being pedantic and argumentative, for arguments sake.. I will listen to reasoned debate and will try to see the gist of a post and what someone is trying to say. Shall we just leave at that, and realise we both love speedway in our different ways.

I am interested in peoples opinion...but certain ones don't actually give an opinion. They just slag off posters or moan about them giving constructive criticism. I reacted to a sarcastic quote that some people go because they like it. I've got no problem with people disagreeing...but at least say why and give a reasoned debate. Unfortunately having read through the forum, I've got an underlying feeling, that many feel giving any constructive criticism is like banging your head against a brick wall, and a sense of apathy has taken over...as it's all been said before. The sad thing is...many threads often end up in slanging match's and people having to explain themselves, rather than people reading posts as they are intended. As I said in a previous post...I don't see anyone on here hating Speedway...in fact the opposite. It takes a special kind of stupid and misguided love of a sport, to sign up to a forum and argue points with keyboard warriors...but i'm sure everyone does it because they all love the sport. ;-)