Gresham

Very disappointing...very little rain...decided to grade the track before heat 10 and take all the dirt off...what little there was. The track was then like sheet ice...it actually looked like ice, it was that bare. Right there and then I knew they'd call the meeting off after the next race...started to make my way to the car, and heard the announcer say it was now off as I opened the door. A little bit of damp, and these bikes can't deal with tracks where you get slick on the inside and a little bit of dirt on the outside. I actually took a picture to show how little dirt there was. But unfortunately you can't seem to show pics on here...so little dirt on the track that Brads mate was doing the track inspection in flip flops, and the mascots friend walking around the track in white trainers...not a mark. Only losers here were the fans...heard people around me say...'and this is one of the reasons people have stopped coming'...such a shame.

I agree...like I said in my initial post to which you replied... 'Having worked in groundworks and the construction industry in the past...as a Quantity Surveyor and Architectural Tec, I think I'm quiet qualified to have some degree of knowledge on how things can be constructed.' That degree of knowledge is enough to know how to create a concrete slab for a Speedway track....of which we are talking about...not a multi million pound structure. So yes...let that be an end to it. You know your stuff...I know mine.

A tapered slab of reinforced concrete being put into the different layers of a Speedway track and it's design, is hardly ground breaking is it. Could deal with more difficult situations when constructing roads and motorways. Totally different if it were a highly spec'd building or bridge for example. Having worked as an on site QS for many years, you'll find there are many aspects to being a QS that you obviously don't understand...it's not just counting numbers and dealing with contracts. You have to be able to sit down face to face with engineers and discuss aspects of all builds. If I don't understand what they are talking about, then how does that work? Understanding, stresses, bending moments and numerous other facts when constructing a concrete slab is essential in this type of business. And as an Engineer...yes I would expect you to know how to understand a B of Q's and have a good fist at creating one...it's not that difficult if you know about Construction.

I know...Concrete grids and race jackets and different leathers were all introduced by Speedway promotors, then they decided to change it. Some good ideas...some bad...IMO. Things evolve. I suppose going through the 'Stupid ideas'....you sometimes stumble on better solutions. Some of the best ideas have led from crazy ideas...it's been an interesting debate non the less, and made for good discussion in places.

Sad to hear...my father spoke fondly of watching Johnny race at Knowle. RIP Johnny.

haha...yeah..I'm thinking of becoming a Speedway promotor...as they make stupid up ideas up every season...reckon I'll be good at that. ;-)

Rohan riding tonight after crashing out last night?

The general consensus seems that a concrete/tarmac starting grid would be a total non starter for various reasons given. However...does anyone think there is a way of giving all four riders an equal starting platform from which to gate? Leave it as it is...bring in better controlled rules to stop 'gardening' etc...any other thoughts?

Funny that...I just sat in an office painting pretty pictures and counting bricks...didn't get involved in any Structural engineering at all. All these Contractors used to talk to me about developments...in Groundworks, Housing, roadworks...didn't have a clue what they were talking about. Surprised I was employed at all...Walked around with them talking numbers and how things needed to be done with the Contractors and Site Agents and Engineers...didn't have a clue...nadah... Didn't learn a thing in all my 30 years of doing...learnt nothing at Uni, and learnt nothing whilst out on site....Unbelievable...

What did they do in the past then? Of course the grid wouldn't be completely shale free...but it would still give a fairer start. Clearing too much surplus could be done easily in the time it took to start the next race...and maybe something other than a brush could be used. I've watched and moved shale myself from track corners, when hand grading was common. Yes hard work, and heavy when wet. I'm not saying it could work...just trying to think of ways of making it work, if possible. Just a bit of fun :-)

If a certain person read my posts correctly, they will also see that I've agreed numerous times, that racing nowadays is just the same...as it can be strung out or close. Where we have disagreed, is on other parts of the sport, which I've tried to explain, but seem to go woosh over their head. Racing, as in being strung out...is exactly the same. Tracks, bikes, set up, regs, promotions, teams, clubs, Individual riders and certain aesthetics are different. And for me...that is what makes the difference. It may not be for others...as some seem to think it's purely the crowd that make it exciting. This is purely my preference and for certain others...why some people can't grasp that, and realise, we all find pleasure in speedway in our different ways, is beyond me. Why do I have to be told, why it is that I don't enjoy it, when that's from one persons perspective and not mine? We are all different....

Show me every thread where I've 'slagged off speedway'. Go to the Somerset threads and see what I've posted on them. I've not slagged speedway off at all. I may have raised questions as to how it could be improved or why certain things have changed. I've not dismissed anyone....I may not agree with what they say... that's different. As for concrete starting gates...how do you know people are more technically minded than me? Having worked in groundworks and the construction industry in the past...as a Quantity Surveyor and Architectural Tec, I think I'm quiet qualified to have some degree of knowledge on how things can be constructed. Having also ridden Speedway bikes, Moto X, Road bikes as well...I'd say i'd have a good understanding of how certain bikes work on certain surfaces as well. It seems, like I've said on a previous thread, there are a small element on this forum, who like to tell people...instead of debating. And when I or others don't agree with them, they get in a huff and start attacking the person rather than the post. It seems they can't take it, when they get a reaction they don't like. And don't talk bollox about threads only appearing since I've arrived. Loads of different people have started threads of similar ilk. I think you'll find I am able to discuss...I just won't be told things are fact, when I disagree. That's when the likes of Witch start trolling. I don't want to talk to the idiot...and neither do others it seems...so the forum gives us an option to ignore...which I did, because he refused to 'agree to disagree'. He knows I don't want to talk with him...yet he still trolls me and quotes me, as he does with others. I think you'll find, it's the likes of him that are the problem...not me or others who wish to debate. Threads are fine...until people start on at one another. Maybe realise, that your little clique may have been on here a long time, but it doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about Speedway. You don't know me, my involvement in the sport in the past or now. You have no idea who I am...yet you choose to think you are some type of Lord of the forum. It's the constant 'you said this, you said that'...that ruins this forum...and it's all down to a few trolls, who like to tell people, rather than debate.

Which I acknowledged in my first sentence...where I agreed it could be an issue. I addressed the issue about 'lip' only, which he spoke of in his previous post. I didn't address the issue of 'grip' as I have no answer to that. However...that doesn't mean it couldn't be addressed by an expert. By the way...I don't consider you a bell end...only Witch, who's following me around like some lost troll. Bit of a weirdo apparently.

I can understand your theory before, of a spinning tyre hitting concrete after being on shale, proving difficult. However...as I explained...if a concrete or tarmac slab was built which tapered, you wouldn't get a lip. The shale would sit nicely in balance with the tapered slab. After each race, the four starting marshall's could brush/grade any shale into place if needed to

The biggest problem this Sport has got, is anyone new looking for information, would find this forum and think 'feck that'...bunch of complete bell ends who just argue amongst themselves. As prominent people in the sport have said...the negativity shown on forums is doing this sport no good. Anyone new looking on here, would think Speedway was full of freaks and avoid.

Not a tantrum...just pointing out you and Witch are complete tools...either on a wind up or just plain thick. Like Speedybee said...he's had Witch on ignore for years, yet he still keeps quoting him. Now he's doing it to me...complete bell ends.

Are you thick or what? Witch said... 'You put me on ignore as you were too pig headed to accept that the racing is as it always has been for the most part.' He actually said it... And I alluded to people like Witch who have said this on numerous threads. Read the damn posts properly you idiot. As in 'Alluded to on numerous threads not just this one'. Kinnel, talk about brain dead...got to be on a wind up, no one can be this thick...oh hang on...friends with Witch it all makes sense now haha

You couldn't make it up... Quote... The Mockingjay, on 17 May 2016 - 11:35 AM, said: You wouldn’t mark your neck with a blow torch…you chuck a tantrum every time you are supposedly misquoted or misinterpreted and then proceed to post about people who only concentrate on strung out races…. A person who doesn’t even exist and a comment no one has even made. Witch likes M'jays post...then posts exactly what I alluded too... but according to M'jay, that person doesn't exist. Muppets...obviously on a wind up.

Are you for real? Who's chucking a tantrum? I'm giving an opinion like everyone else. Read through posts on the forum about related topics, and you will see many people say the racing is the same as it's always been. Everyone has different opinions, and reasons as to why the don't go anymore or why they find it not so entertaining. Ramming it down people's throats and telling people they are wrong, is ridiculous...as it's THEIR reason for not enjoying it so much as in the past. You can't tar the whole speedway fan base with the same brush. Everyone has different opinions and reasons. Someone on this thread mentioned they've watched old clips of racing and found it less entertaining...guess what...so do I, as it's not live. I find Speedway on the whole, boring to watch on TV...that's just me. I'd much rather watch sport live.

WTF!...how have I rubbished other peoples conclusions. One can think all they like...but you'd be wrong. I agree with some points...don't with others...I'm not going to go round in circles, trying to prove a point, if others feel differently. They have their views...I have mine. Kinnel...this forum has some right odd people on it. 'You will be told...you will change your mind...If I write it in capitals and say it enough times, it becomes fact. You will conform to our way of thinking...We will tell you what you are thinking...even though we haven't got a clue...you do not belong to the clique...so do not attempt to discuss' Every thread becomes personal attacks... no wonder so many have fecked off to FB. As for time...are you taking the piss? Nearly 25,000 posts...jeezus...I think it's you who needs to get real. By the way...I'd like to add a few 'emotions' to show this post is tongue in cheek...but that's been stopped by the forum police too...feck me, no pics and no emotions...it's like being in the 80's...oh hang on...don't go there...it's the same but different...or is it? Doh!

Fair points from Iris and Vince...may not agree with them all, but thanks for taking the time.

Can you show me documentation of how you came to that conclusion? All I've seen, are some forum members thinking it would be dangerous...no proof. From the link I posted earlier...it say's Riders didn't like the concrete and preferred the tarmac or asphalt. There is nothing in there saying it was scraped because it was deemed dangerous. It ran for many years, from just after the war until the late 50's. If it caused crash's on a regular basis, it would have been scraped immediately. If it was stopped for that reason, then so be it....but I've seen no proof to say it was because it was dangerous.

Whenever there is a conversation about Speedway in the past compared to now, it seems people who say it's the same, only concentrate on the fact that riders were strung out, just as much as they are today in a majority of races. I'd agree...you got races strung out...and you also have/had close racing. It's exciting in different ways. But there is much more to speedway racing, than just how close riders are racing together. No one is looking back through rose tinted glasses. Speedway racing was aesthetically pleasing...it was a completely different animal too today. The same as F1 was different. There are just as many F1 fans who think racing was better in the days of Hunt, Lauda etc...and races were just as strung out as they are now. It's the whole visual package and sensory overload of the past that's different today. Just putting it out there, so certain people realise, it's not just about how close races were and are.

So your saying a strip of concrete a bike and half lengths long, would cause a massive problem on the straight? Regardless of ruts...how are you going to get a 'lip' if the concrete is tapered at say 30%...you may get a small rise, but how is that going to effect the bike, especially when you see how deep the ruts are that the riders are flying over at the moment. Everyone is looking at this idea and finding reasons for it not to work, based on how tracks and bikes are now. How about looking at it from a different angle, and changing how a bike has it's clutch set, and gearing etc. How about making a track more suitable to fit? I've seen riders flip their bikes at the start on normal tracks, numerous times. Mainly in the past though...80's. I've also practiced starts on concrete and tarmac...however it was on Westlake and Jawa uprights. Yes it was different to shale...it just meant different clutch set up and control. The idea to give a better and fairer starting grid and stop 'gardening'...doesn't mean 'it won't work'...sometimes you have to change things to make them work. Tracks and bikes have all evolved...why not consider a fairer starting grid? You are probably right, it would be difficult with tracks that are small, and possibly with how the bikes are set up now...but why just say 'No'...why not find a way of making it work. If it means altering other parts of the sport in it's present state, for the better, then why not? According to the information I found, it only stopped because riders didn't like the lip. That could be remedied. If it could be proved it wouldn't work, then so be it...but why not give it a try?

How do we know...has anyone tried it? A lot of assumptions on here otherwise. The dirt and shale would build up onto the surface during racing...you would only need a strip of concrete a bike and half's length. Whenever any suggestion is made to benefit the sport, it seems people want to find reasons not to do it. Perhaps if tracks were deeper with more shale on, we could go back to bikes with less revs, and a different gearing to stop wheels spinning furiously. If it worked in the past...why not? It seems the only reason it stopped was because of a lip...that could be rectified by creating an angle, and tapering it down to the base. You've only got to watch flat track racing to see dirt and concrete can be worked together. Who knows until you try something...surely it would have to be tested first?