Gresham

With respect....this is not pointed at just you, but anybody...but what has anybody's views or opinion got to do with what he wants to do with his life? No body knows exactly what goes on his life. What gives anyone the right to go up to a person and tell them what they should be doing? Just because he's a speedway rider, it doesn't give anyone the right to tell him what he can and cannot do. Think about it. In all seriousness...If you went up to Tai and said your feelings...what reaction would you want? What's it got to do with you? Why does he have to explain anything to you...or listen to your views? Isn't that in itself all a bit weird? I'd be highly embarrassed if it were me.

This has got to be one of the most embarrasing threads i've ever read. I'd love to see some of the thoughts said on here, said face to face in person. Easy behind a keyboard, telling others what they should be doing isn't it.

Agreed...Unfortunately it seems the forum is focusing purely on the idea of Promotion and Relegation. At least, in my eye's, the Promotors are trying to do something. I can see positives in other ideas that have been 'planned'. A few have come out recently and said they have made mistakes and things need to be rectified. So i'm all for seeing what they do. The fact they are going to have a trial meeting and ask fans their opinion, to me is also a good thing. Some of the questions being asked here, could also be raised then. I agree...Promotion of the sport by some clubs could be improved. Interestingly I posted a race on a social media page yesterday. A friend commented on it, how good it was. I asked whether he's been to Speedway before. His reply...'Yes, when I was ten...I went to Swindon Robins and loved it'. I told him they still race. He found their Website. His response...quote...' Found it. Will check out the fixtures. Don't seem to be milking the visuals. What a shame. That would really sell it.' I looked...he's right...great if you are a fan and just want to read info...but are Club websites 'Selling' the sport to any newcomer?

The reason I say it's for the better...is because all the Promotors are involved in the process. If they didn't want 'change' then they would stay as it is. The fact they are approaching this, shows that they are open to change...and would only do so, to make things better. You are looking at budgets and race nights now...perhaps this is also being looked at. Perhaps the clubs are seeing that they need to cut their cloth to suit and will budget without Top riders competing in our leagues. I'd be all for it. I don't see the point of only having just a handful of top riders competing here. I'd rather see Premier league standard across the board, than a handful of GP riders that can't be arsed and see Poland, Sweden and the GP's as their main concern.

So take away the promotion and relegation...you would be ok with the other proposed plans? If you look it another way...isn't it madness that a team/club sport like speedway, can't run two leagues with promotion and relegation? You may as well make the whole sport just Individual events...which tbh...I can see it eventually ending up like that. It seems so many want change...but when they try for the better...people find a million reasons not too. Catch 22.

And this is where Speedway again is a farce...how do you as a club sign up to something then refuse to go up or down? What other sport would allow this? If you are signed up and contracted to run in a formulated league system....then you should abide by it. If not...then do one. If it is because of costs...then here in lies the problem. Surely some sort of Financial fair play rules should be brought in, like they do in other sports. Where by you are only allowed to spend in wages a percentage of your total income. If Owners want to put into the club their own money towards other running costs then fine...but wages should reflect the incoming gate receipts imo.

If that's the case, why are all the promotors going to the trials and giving feedback? Why are they going to the next trial as well? If promotors don't wish their team to go up...then why not say now, and stop wasting time and energy and money? Perhaps the new system will be tried before they introduce Promotion and relegation. Or as Phillip said above...the Leagues made more in conjunction with one another? Lets face it...it's not that far off now.

This is something that crossed my mind...are we going to have doubling up still? Between EL and PL with 12 teams in each...that's 144 riders needed. I'm guessing you are going to get at least 3 to 4 riders from many PL teams moving up to teams in the EL...and heat leaders from the NL riding at No. 6 for PL sides. It is one of the things that annoys me...and I presume many fans...but I guess riders need to race and make a living. Not enough fixtures to ride for just one team. As Rosco recently said...the 'Elite' league...is just a name, that doesn't reflect the quality in it.

Maybe there would be slight tolerances of difference...but at least riders would be relying on their skill, more so, than their bank balance and what engine tuner they have now. Riders are competing every week, to out do one another with their engine tuner. That in itself is a lottery, and an expensive one at that. Only today...it mentions in the SS, that the top four riders in the GP all use PJR tuning and the others need to find a way of catching up. Someone mentioned, that recently Craig Cook bought six new engines, had them tuned by Tuner A....they all came back not to his liking...so bought six more, got them tuned by Tuner B and they were to his liking. He then had to sell the first 6 he bought on again. How mad is that? Riders are constantly trying to find that edge...getting their engines highly tuned to near breaking point. They are all doing it...every week. What's the point, when all they are doing is chasing their tail. It's thankless and never ending. You are fast one week....then someone else is faster because they have found another milli second....so off you go again and spend a fortune trying to find another milli second to get back in the hunt....and so it goes on. Then they bring in a new silencer or new restriction...and so it starts again. It really is madness. If the top boys want to play that game in the GP...let them...the money they have is beyond what most riders have in Britain. When you read about Nicky Pederson being a Millionaire and moving to Monaco next to one of the F1 guys, then you realise, these top racers are on a fortune. They've taken from Britain...moved on and are now bleeding Poland and Sweden dry. I'm sorry...but when you read that the likes of Nicky Pederson have recently come out and said that ' He couldn't give a FU*K about the Danish Championship anymore'...and that he just used it to test things on his bike....then you realise Speedway has become so distant from what it used be like. I'm personally not interested in GP's and Individual events...couldn't give a stuff about them. I'm interested in seeing Club racing, and British Speedway evolving for the better and leagues expanding...not being bled to death.

I'm guessing any proposal worth it's salt, would be put forward showing all the benefits and most points covered and able to be answered. Like I said...it's being tried and tested before implemented. Plus being shown to the public for their input. At least they are trying, which imo, is a good thing.

Like I said in my first post...the trial was with one point...after the trial, the general consensus according to SS, is that it would be more likely 3 or 4 points. It may change again...depending on trials I suppose. At least they are trying it out and it's not something that has been thought out on a whim. Four years planning and a computer programme put in place to sort out any possible scenarios that might be missed.

Apparently in the trial meeting it was only 1 point. They want to keep meeting close apparently. Each sides No.1 will face his oppo 3 times. In heats 1,8 and 15. The number 6 will also meet his oppo 3 times. In the trial meeting...both teams led at one point or another and by no more than 4 points at anyone time. It's good that they are testing and trying it first, before implementing it. Has been thought out via a Newcastle co promotor and a season ticket holder there.

... I know it's been touched on in another thread...but for the life of me I can't find where. However...it seems progress is being made for a big change that may come into fruition next season. It's been four years in the making....and the format run through a computer programme to look for glitches. One trial meeting has taken place with all promotors there. Another is being done again soon...to iron out a few ideas...then a public third meeting will take place to see what the public think and give input. Two equal sized leagues of between 10 and 12 teams. 3 promoted...3 relegated.... Done via a play off system. National league to stay the same, but a chance in future to move up the league ladder. Six rider teams... All have 5 rides. 15 heats. No RR and no double points scores. RR only if rider gets injured in meeting. TS's used most likely if team goes 3 or 4 points behind. With the format... Team managers will need a brain. All this according to Peter Oakes in todays SS. Exciting times ahead :-)

I'm not saying ban it...I'm just pointing out that it's hypocritical imo, to allow sponsorship of something like Monster or Red Bull, that carry's a health warning and can effect your well being if you consume more than two a day, and not allow Tobacco companies to sponsor. Two cans or Monster...two cigarettes...a day...neither will kill you...but it's what they can lead to...an addiction. Like you say though...you take responsibility for yourself and make life choices. I've been sponsored by a Ski Manufacturer...I was asked to wear the products clothing when appropriate and recommend when appropriate and have labelling on bags etc.. I never went waving said skis in the face of camera's like some demented kid....just because I got sponsored to use them. This thread is about product placement and how it's being courted on tv by a prominent speedway rider...not labelling on bikes, clothing etc. It's how you go about things...not what it actually is to be fair.

He's not promoting it or being sponsored by them though.... The point of the thread, is about a Speedway rider who's sponsored by Monster, going way over the top in trying to advertise this product nearly everytime he's on TV. It's in your face and totally unnecessary.

Agreed...and both aren't good for you...but they don't carry a health warning as far as I know. It's the kids that are vulnerable to such intense product placement imo. These type of drinks are addictive...especially with the sweet intensity that kids love. They crave them more and more. I know a family who's young teenager got hooked on them...changed her whole temperament. Loads of kids drink them to help them study...they get a massive hit, become alert and energetic...then get a massive low. It's like a drug...you end up consuming more and more to get the instant high that you first experienced. It is drug like and addictive...that's why they sell so much. I spoke a pro skier once who is sponsored by Red Bull....she said she never drinks the stuff or if she had kids would allow them to drink it...yet she was happy to endorse it and take the money... selling your soul for the $$$$$ Worth watching this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rcY3P2zL28

I just find it odd that the likes of Monster can sponsor sports stars and events...but Tobacco companies are banned. Both carry health warnings...neither are good for you. Both aren't consumed by professional sportsman and women. Every time I see any sports person waving their Monster or Red Bull can at me, I can't help but think it's like waving a packet of fags at the TV. You're better off drinking a double espresso if you want the same effect.

The Wembley clip you mention is also fantastic viewing.

Fantastic post TMC...

I'm not so sure about that... Out of choice in Individual meetings...then yes, a contracted rider to an engine manufacturer couldn't ride another manufacturers bike, for risk of losing contract. If however...he is contracted to ride for a team, who supply the engines, then that is a different type of contract. Think along the lines of a football player who is sponsored by Adidas, but his Club is sponsored by Nike...he still turns out for them. Tbh...I'd rather a rider chose to only ride abroad...if it meant speedway could change to this. There aren't enough places for every rider to ride abroad. There are plenty of riders that would ride, if costs were less. It may need taking a step backwards...but I'd rather see that, than watch Speedway strangle itself with ever increasing costs. Riders imo, have way too much say on how Speedway is run. I'm glad the BSPA have thought about having sealed engines...I hope they try and find a way of making it work. For them to even think about it, means they have concerns about how it is being run now.

I'm sure there would be problems...like anything when things change. However...if a company like for example JAWA were contacted, and a plan of action put in place, where they supply engines to all the clubs in the leagues, to the same bulk standard and sealed, and a payment plan put in operation....then maybe that could be a solution. As for what riders prefer...this is where the mind set would have to change. They would have to get their head around the idea, that they are given an engine, and it produces so much power. They provide the rolling chassis etc...and the only way they can adjust to their liking, is clutch setting and how many teeth they want to run on, length of bike, bars etc. It would be more about riders conforming and adjusting to the new 'philosophy' rather than trying to adjust bikes to exactly how they want it.

The Engines would be off the shelf and 'sealed' basic engines with no high spec tuning. Built to last from a manufacturer like JAWA. Rolling chassis would be owned by the riders...they provide their own. Costs would be kept down, as riders wouldn't be paid the money that they spend on engine tuning or engines. The rider wouldn't have the costs...the money saved being paid to the rider, would still go towards Engines. It's just the club paying it direct, rather than the rider. When you think about it...it's the Clubs paying for the engines and tuning anyway...as they pay the riders, who then pay the tuners, engine manufacturers. It's a crazy situation as it is...you have certain riders racing for teams, who get paid to race for that team. However....that money being paid, often goes towards the maintenance and tuning of engines being used in GP's and Individual events. Why should clubs be paying wages to riders, who then use a great majority of that money to invest in machinery for GP and Individual events? Any money in theory, should be going into machinery being used to race on at Club meetings. Costs would be the same, you are just cutting out the middle man ( the rider ) Pay the rider...the same wages, less the cost of maintaining the engines. It's simple in theory. If a rider wants to be sponsored by companies for individual events, then so be it. Why not have sponsors who wish to sponsor a rider or team, have the money go towards the team engines instead, and have the sponsors name on team kevlars, team bike and handle bar covers? Costs would still be lower than now, as the engines would be sealed and 'Standard' and built to last...rather than highly tuned and on the brink of breaking. That could easily be done. It's just a mindset of how Speedway is run now, that has to be changed. We've got used to it being like it is for many years...change is hard to see, but it could be done. Riders wouldn't like it to start with...but if it was forced, then they would have to. Most other motor sports run this way...it's only Speedway as far as I can see that doesn't. In fact, in many motor sports...drivers/riders have to pay a team or manufacturer up front to race for them in many cases.

.... this for me, is the biggest change needed with Club Speedway. Looking at the way Speedway has developed since it's early days, I think the one thing that should have been introduced many years ago, was the Introduction of Club/team bikes. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another team in motorsport, where it's up to the individual in each team, to supply and service/maintain their own motors/chassis etc. Speedway riders throughout history, spend £££££'s on their engines, tuning them to within inch's of their life. Everyday...every rider is concerned about how much extra speed they can get out of their engines. It's a merry go round, that is fruitless and the only people that really benefit are the engine tuners and manufacturers. Having seen one of the Danish riders interviewed recently, where he quoted he spent over £200,000.00 to race Speedway last season. Let that sink in...200 Grand before he's made profit....absolute madness. As a fan...are we concerned about who's got the fastest bike...who's got the best tuner? Are you not frustrated when you see a talented rider failing to score to his potential, because his bike isn't as fast this week? They spend countless hours travelling, covering many miles and still have to concentrate on getting their engines highly tuned...just to compete. Surely as Speedway fans, all we are interested in, is seeing the talent of a rider on a Speedway bike...rather than who's got the best engine tuner and who owns the fastest bike? I'd love to see Club Speedway make a massive change to how it's run and introduce Club bikes. You may ask who's going to fund this? Well each rider knows how much he spends each season on engines and tuning from their accounts. That could be taken into account when structuring such a new venture. A percentage could be taken off each contracted rider, to go towards the club bikes, instead of into the riders pocket, who would only spend that money on servicing and tuning his own bikes. If Clubs could find a way of having sealed engines, with minimum tuning needed...off the shelf in other words, then I feel Speedway could save massive amounts of money. Granted...Riders would have to have their own rolling chassis, and able to make adjustments to clutch etc...but costs could be massively improved on. I'd only suggest this was done in League meetings. In Individual meetings, I'd say let the riders do whatever they want re their bikes. But simplified...find a way of Clubs providing sealed engines. Each engine being checked before a meeting, then lots chosen as to who gets what engines. Get the engines put in each riders rolling chassis before the meeting...then race...on equal terms. Yes...big adjustments would have to be made...plus a different thought process by the riders on how to approach a meeting. Yes, it's a drastic idea...but it's something I've felt strongly about for many many years. Of course there would be stumbling blocks to start, like anything that is new...but why not. Personally...I'd love to see this introduced. I'd love to see Speedway promotors able to save money and invest in the sport. Tracks have had to invest in Air fences...We also need to start investing in track covers. I don't see enough money coming into the sport to survive as it is...let alone invest for the future. It imo, would also bring a better Club feel to our sport. Can anyone else see this being possible? Find ways of doing it, rather than reasons not to?

....lovely bit of social footage showing how things are so different today... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSOumilHl0U

Maybe....i don't know peoples 'history'....however he is still entitled to his opinion. The sad thing is...nearly every thread is turned on its head by the same people...telling others what they should think. People have opinions...we don't all agree...but its the same old people, same old crap nearly every thread. If people stuck to the subject and ignored forum members, this place would be a whole more pleasant experience.