Gresham

Fans and riders not singing off the same hymn sheet. Fans want teams...Riders want to be 'Individuals' Fans want continuity...not team changes every season. Costs to run the sport too high...riders wages, maintenance, track prep etc Facilities poor compared to other sports of similar entrance fee. Overpriced and poor quality food and beverages. Way too many rain offs. Never found a way to run a meeting in the rain or facilitate covers. Poor standard of entertainment before and between heats. Ever increasing priority on having to make the start. Not enough passing or strung out races. Ok in the past, but far more entertainment choices out there for the public these days. Bikes not compatible with many British tracks. Has become sanitised...sound, smell and sight all less than before. Viewing the 'action' in the pits should be visable to all fans. BSPA run like an amateur organisation. Should have a independent body. Riders and Promoters delusional...trying to run and impersonate a high end motorcycle sport, on a garden shed income. Speedway should have gone 'standardised' many years ago...instead of letting costs spiral on the never ending pursuit by riders to create a faster bike to the point of breaking.

Yes...I have considered why certain people can illustrate with examples...basically they are the 'pedants' of the forum. People who only see one point of the argument, who cannot see the whole picture and refuse to see the reason for the thread and it's other points. Whilst purely statistically, you can come to a figure...but that figure doesn't mean it's for the good of Speedway. The problem with people who enjoy statistics is they are often blinkered and can't/won't see past those numbers. It's an aggressive sport for ruthless men on bikes with no breaks, racing to the limit...A sport that has the same type of following as most team sports in this country. If you think Speedway in this day and age will attract new fans because of it's attractiveness for filling in programmes and working out stat's, then IMO...you are completely deluded, and out of touch with modern society in this country. I've taken various newbies to the speedway. They've all enjoyed the actual racing...but all commented on how funny it was, watching a bunch of old men, with heads like pigeons bobbing up and down in their programmes instantly after the end of a heat. None of them found that a draw to the meeting...just something comical and in fact a turn off. Imo...the 'programme and it's filling in' during a meeting, has been part of the downfall to speedways unpopularity. Whilst past generations might have enjoyed it, I don't think the younger generation do. It's enabled Promotors to be lazy in how they present a meeting....no reason to 'entertain' between heats, just let the public read their programmes and fill them in. Imo...the infatuation with stats in team building by the BSPA, and the way it's done, and it's reasons, pretty much destroys continuity with riders at teams each season. Whether 'statistically' it is correct...is by the by...it is wrong in so many ways for the good of speedway and what fans want from a team. In the same way...the same for programme filling in by the public. Something that speedway has done over the years...but is it right for Speedway now? Older generations used to sit at County cricket games filling in score books. County games have similar crowds to speedway. Cricket...a game of stats...saw the need to move on and modernise. 50-50, 20-20...entertainment and razzmatazz...and scoreboards showing you all you need to know. People watching the game, being entertained...not doing something they could be doing in their own homes. Sat filling in books. For all the reasons mentioned in this post...that's why I think the team building average should be higher...not purely down to pure maths.

The usual post by those missing the point completely...always thinking they are right...saying people don't understand, when they do....and can't except, and refuse to except others may have a different opinion...just because they think they are right and everyone has to agree with them. Same old, same old...you can illustrate all you want with past examples. Perhaps take your head out from your stats, take a deep breath, and think maybe over all these years, it's this infatuation with stats and averages, that has contributed to the downfall of speedway over the years. Just maybe...something so ingrained is hard to remove for some people.

Perhaps a 'logical monitor' should be introduced instead...as imo, it is this fixation with 'statistics' that has ruined Speedway over the years. Rules, amount of rides, amount of races, amount of points awarded etc, etc have changed frequently over the years, as do the average limits. It's a complete joke, and has had a negative effect on the sport for many. Speedway should be about the racing and continuity of riders at a club. Fans getting accustomed to that team and feeling affiliated to them. It isn't. The sport is fixated with stats...it has become so dominant in the sport that it has had a negative effect. It feels more like Trainspotters convention mixed with Countdown ;-) Whilst everyone can sit around with their calculators, working out averages, coming to whatever we think it should be....perhaps we should get our heads out of these stats, stop being so pedantic and get the sport back to what it should be all about.

I fully understand how averages are made up. However...I see it from not just a statistical stance. A team put together with a combined average of 40.9, would mean that they would be no where near the realistic strength to draw, let alone win a meeting...45, 46 points being the minimum required. If you were to take the combined average of the top four teams each season, it would give every team a fighting chance to strengthen, and for those that made the top four, a good chance of keeping the riders they already have and some continuity for the fans. The latter being the most important part for me. The way the averages are combined every year, make it hard for teams to keep together...no continuity. All they encourage is teams to be torn apart each season...which imo, is one of the reasons fans struggle to keep interested in going.

....Can someone explain to me how the BSPA decide on the limit each year. Imo...it should be set at 45.00 The points needed to draw a meeting. I totalled up the final issue averages of the top 4 sides from last season. Combined they averaged 45.18 Seems logical to me.

lol...yes, I've been in the pits during meetings, both in the past and recently. I wouldn't expect ex riders to go bending present riders ears, but would expect present riders, to seek out as much advice as possible from ex riders. Whilst bikes and tracks may not be the same, a lot can still be learnt from riders of the past imo. I coach in another sport, and tell all my youngsters to listen to what ex pro's have to say.

I think it would be a good idea if promoters of all Clubs, allowed ex riders in for free. How many ex riders actually go and pay these days? It's not like all the tracks are rammed to the rafters and there is no space for them. For the paying public, how great to see ex riders and have a chat with them. Surely it's a pull to know favourite ex riders could be in attendance. Wouldn't present riders want to bend their ear and get tips and guidance as well? I'd get it, if Speedway was like football, with thousands attending each week...but it's not. So why not open the gates to ex riders for free? What harm would it do? Are the promotion going to lose revenue in what they were expecting? Get em on the centre green for an interview, get them in the clubhouse etc. If it meant ex riders would attend....do it. The paying public love meeting and chatting to ex riders.

Woah their cowboy...don't let one frustrated rant by the promoter make you think Somerset is badly run...far from it. It's still a great racing track, run well and with passion. I get the impression that the move up has been frustrating...not just for fans but the promotion as well. Little Somerset has no say in any matters of importance is the message I'm getting. You can have all the passion in the world for a sport, but once the politics gets a hols, it can kill any passion and frustrate the hell out of you. Been there in another sport. I'd completely understand if they dropped down or even walked away.

I think a few are missing the point of this. Promotor having a go at fans for not attending and being ungrateful. Riders not wanting to attend, or wanting to be paid to attend. Promotor...saying 'fans can't be bothered to attend' Promotor blaming the fixture list for a rider not attending....and that it's a meaningless fixture. I'm sure the Glasgow fans will disagree....and isn't it the promotors who arrange the fixture list? Go figure... Promotor only thanking fans who bought tickets....what about all those that attended during the season, and many did so through gritted teeth because of the amount of guests and RR's in place. Then Lawson only thanking the Promotor and not the fans who voted for him. I've always respected what the Somerset Promotors have done in the past, but in this instance I find it embarrassing. This season at Somerset has been one of the worst since I started watching them. Some fine racing no doubt...but the teams put out, irregular fixtures, so many guests and RR's has made it one to forget as far as I'm concerned. I heard many grumbles this season there, unlike before. Perhaps the fans are making a statement of displeasure with their feet. Why would you want to celebrate with riders who don't want to be there anyway?

The ‘Cases’ Somerset Rebels have been forced to cancel their end of season dinner and rider presentation night due to take place on Friday night, the evening having already having been postponed from earlier in the month, an exasperated Debbie Hancock explaining the reasons behind the decision; “For the second, and final time, the ‘Cases’ Somerset Rebels will cancel their end of season party due to take place this Friday (27th October). “I am very disappointed to have to do this, it being the first ever year we’ve had had to cancel the event, but once again several things have contributed to this decision.” “Ticket sales have been well down compared to previous years, something I am pretty unhappy about as fans have moaned in the past that tickets over the last few years have been expensive, albeit that the meal has consisted of a two-course dinner, so having listened to the fans feedback, we decided to give the them what they had been asking for, namely a buffet with a disco and we reduced the tickets to just £10, but despite this, the fans have still not supported the event, so I fail to see what else we can do.” “Then, for one reason or another, you get riders who either do not want to attend, want to be paid to attend, or cannot attend due having to ride in to meaningless fixtures which are still being run at this late in the season!” “So, in short, things have just got to the stage where it has become stupid to carry on with the evening; a lot of effort into planning and arranging this event, but if the fans cannot be bothered to attend, then why should the club and its promotion bother to arrange it, it is just something else fans will lose.” “In saying all that, I would, however, like to say a personal congratulation to Richard Lawson who was voted as the fans’ Rider of the Year. He has been a great person to work with and he is the victim of Friday night’s meaningless fixture as he has to ride for Glasgow, so well-done Richard, a well-deserved accolade.” “Finally, I would like to thank the few fans who did buy tickets to support Friday’s event, and would ask that they contact Di Phillips, and not the Oaktree, for a full refund.” Then the comments from fans followed...as you can guess, they weren't amused. Even better was Richard Lawson commenting...Quote.. Richard Lawson Debbie Hancock Thanks for my award 😬... I don't think you were having a pop at me I get your point about it being meaningless. I don't think there is any need for these comments. Would of been a good night anyway.. Don't worry Aussie soon for you Thanking the promoter for the award...voted for by the fans. No mention of thanks to the fans. And then to rub it in...'Off to Oz soon, so not to worry'... You really couldn't make it up. Perhaps the promotors should work out why the fans don't want to attend. Perhaps they've had enough of such a poorly run season with poor fixture planning, guests, rr's etc...and have sussed that the riders don't actually care about the fans. Paid to attend...really? Give something back to the fans that pay the wages surely?

Bristol Bulldogs 1 Scott Nichols 7.47 2 BWD 4.67 3 Richard Lawson 6.43 4 Jake Allen 5.07 5 Charles Wright 6.43 6 James shanes 2.95 7 Tom Perry 2.00

How can a referee in a box, meters from the starting line, obstructed by lights, scaffolding, wires, etc,etc...see what a false start is and is not? A false start 0.05 of a second before the tapes are released is still a false start compared with one 0.50 of a second...but is it recognisable by the eye? Allowing starts to be judged by the eye of a referee is always going to cause conjecture. The same as times of each race...still done with a stop watch....what's the point? The sport has become a joke...it's head in the clouds. Completely cuckoo. A pic today I saw of Kelvin Tatum looking forward to the GP in Melbourne...stood next to some scaffolding and planks. Summed it up for me. Dreamers living on a building site, run by Cowboys.

Then write about it in the SS...no point putting it on a forum...get it out there in print. With respect...I like the way SS has been writing of late, but there comes a point where talking openly and ruffling feathers needs to be done. I get that certain things have to be kept in hand, otherwise no one will speak to you....however, I think there comes a time when you have to say, enough is enough. Get it out there and off your chest....say what the fans feel. If not....soon SS will become what Backtrack is....a magazine about the past.

I'm sure I've read on here this season, that one of the Championship sides oop norf, has been using covers successfully this season, and it's saved a lot of meetings. Redcar maybe? If they can do it....why not others? You do have to ask yourself, how a sport has developed over the years, that's open to the elements, hasn't found a surface or covering arrangement, that would lead to less meetings being cancelled. Imo....it's one of the reasons why crowds are less and less. No one wants to risk going if their is a chance of rain. Once you've travelled a few times and got caught out....enough's enough....you don't bother.

Do the majority of tracks have poor drainage? Tbh...I'm at a loss as to why we have got to 2017, and this sport still hasn't found a way of running a meeting with some rain or a wet track. Especially in Britain where it rains just as much as not.

Why allow the track to get wet in the first place? I've never understood why covers haven't been used more often. Surely sections could be sold as advertising? On the outside of the fence and air fence, you could have sections ( say 10m each section ) of plastic sheeting that's in a roller. Printed with sponsors name or advert. The roll on a roller, being at the bottom. Pulled up say 4 foot and hooked on to show advertising when not in use. But when needed, the whole roll pulled out and over the fence, across the track and hooked onto the centre green. Released before the meeting or before track management. Not rocket science.

I noticed a tweet by Scott Nichols saying he was disappointed his season was over, that he wanted to ride and perhaps he could get some more. From what I understand, SN is on a set wage with his Prem team, not paid by points....so everything else would be extra to this. Open to correction...but that's what I've been told. I guess others are in the same boat. I get the impression that the majority of riders would quiet happily ride every day if they could, regardless of what team it's for. As a rider....it must feel odd being a team mate one meeting, then trying to beat your 'team mate' the next. Tbh....it's probably gone past that, and they feel like individuals racing, just under the banner of a team name.

Surely this 'doubling up' is rider led? They want the extra rides....sighting they can't make a decent living without it?

I remember sitting next to Shane Warne at an Aussie v Bangladesh game in Cardiff...I know him through him playing for Imperial before he was famous before anyone asks. This guy came up to him about a dozen times during the course of the day, asking him for his autograph. I cunningly checked on ebay, and he had already started listing them that morning. You get the same with people outside football training grounds...serial collectors that sell often to overseas fans. I've collected speedway riders signatures when a kid...but never since. But have got Cricket, Golf and F1 when the occasion has arisen. Made a pretty penny when flogging them on in later years. Pays for your day out :-)

Fella...if anyone, be it fan, or BSPA think that is fine, then you know this sport is fecked. I had to explain to someone today that Kyle Newman could be racing against one of his 'teams' in the relegation meetings....how do you explain that keeping a straight face, and expect people to take the 'sport' seriously?

Whilst I understand your sentiment, I think if they don't do something drastic, then Club Speedway in this country will naturally fall to the standard you speak of. The majority of 'Top' riders don't ride in this country as it is. So why keep pandering to the few that are still here? Progress in having finely tuned, fast, high revving engines is all well and good on surfaces that are perfect for those engines, but are useless when the surface is less than perfect. You say Charles would be a better individual rider if he concentrated solely on himself...and here in lies the problem. A team sport that basically funds the Individual urges in a rider. Speedway buggered itself up when it became an individual and team sport. I'd be more than happy to watch riders week in and week out, that solely rode for one Club in this country, and worked in another job. You can only have so many riders competing in the GP's. There are only so many team berths abroad. Not everyone can get a ride. How many Speedway fans follow a rider over there local team? Not a majority I would think. For me...British Club speedway needs to do something drastic, and stop trying to fit around all the other nations and riders preferences. The speedway fan in this country is being short changed. Find riders that will commit to this league...sod em if they don't. They ride over here, use money earnt, to put into engines abroad....where they can earn more money. How ridiculous a situation is that? We are already watching riders on equipment not as good as abroad. I laugh when I read such and such a rider will be better in the play offs, because he's bringing his faster engines over from Poland...what a complete farce. I'd rather watch committed riders to this country and it's clubs....not riders using our league as a bit of bunce or stepping stone. If it means watching riders of the likes of Wright throughout a team, then great...committed and gives everything. 4 riders of that ability and determination in a race any day over a bunch of moaning 'wanna be's' going through the motions. ;-)

With respect....surely it would be better to have British teams made up of riders that were Plumbers (and such like) earning £800-£1000 a week and riding for British Clubs as a second job? As an example Charles Wright is a labourer...yet is a damn fine exciting rider to watch week in week out. What would be wrong with British Clubs made up of riders of this calibre? As for your comment...Quote...' However, considering that most have to fund their own equipment and transport, face increasing insurance, know that every time they go to the tapes it could result in serious or even life-threatening injuries or worse and more often than not for a relative pittance earns my admiration.'.... Go to Amateur Moto X events on a weekend, and you'll see riders risking life and limb, funding their own equipment and transport, with increasing insurance....and they do it for fun...not a living, yet put it all on the line every weekend. Speedway riders aren't any different. They'd be doing some 'adrenalin' addictive sport even if they were doing a 'normal' job. Speedway could be easily made less financially draining, yet the powers that be, riders, tuners etc don't want to go down that route. Speedway doesn't need the tuners and engines that are running today. It's not progress...it's an unsustainable concept. Only idiots keep doing the same things over and over again, and failing.

It has to be value for money every week imo, otherwise fans find other things to do, that are.

I think anyone who frequents this forum is very passionate about Speedway....you have to be, otherwise you wouldn't bother posting or reading. Everyone loves speedway for what it is... I just get the impression everyone is incredibly frustrated, and come on here to vent those frustrations. There are all manner of frustrations in the sport...so many. You've only got to read the threads on here to see them all. I remember the passion I had for speedway in the past. It was a big part of my life. I still have the love for the sport...but the passion has died. For all the reasons mentioned every week on here...those are why that passion has died. For many people, it's become very apparent that many have to travel to watch their speedway these days. It's not like a stroll up the road anymore for so many. Getting to a track these days, and the frustrations, time and effort and expense it takes can have a major influence. Especially with so many rain offs as well. Add these outside influences, to an already frustratingly run sport...then you almost start the evening on a downer, before the actual racing has started. It costs me a minimum of £40 to attend my nearest track. I have to sit in motorway traffic for two hours to attend, and risk it with any chance of rain. Do I ever come away from a meeting thinking I've had a better time, than spending £40 down my local having fun and socialising with friends there instead? No. I think that's the difference to my passionate past....as it clearly was a more entertaining and enjoyable evening. Not so now. Maybe it's different if you live very locally to your clubs track, and don't have all those outside influences as well to deal with?