Gresham

Like I said...'it might'...not 'it definitely does'...plus I'm not arguing, just debating on a forum with you. Christ...so many on here gets so friggin aggressive if you debate points. Perhaps Philip would be able to give a better insight into the benefits or not of a weekly race card. Perhaps Programmes, a printed race card on A4, and the SS with race card could all sit happily together...as well an updated club app etc.

How much actual profit do they make, compared to printing an A4 race card? That would still generate income and would be far less outlay. You can still sell advertising space on them. Would save outlay costs and time in printing, but still provide the necessary service of a race card. Why do the SS print a race card for the GP's then if it's such a problem? I had a family at the British GP filling in their SS instead of programme to save costs. Surely the SS would be doing the GP circuit a disservice if it was such a problem? Less and less programmes in all sports are sold, because it's old news. Speedway just needs a race card imo.

Yep...totally agree. Would be absolutely farcical for the SS to print a race card. Like you say...SS can't live without speedway. Wouldn't it be a shame if SS were to print a race card and British speedway to close...just because of printing a race card. Just goes to show the small margins speedway runs on...the difference between a club running and the non sales of a programme. Said with tongue firmly in cheek.... God forbid fans have an option, and buying the SS with race card and spending the saved money on a pint instead. No profit in that at all. Do fans buy a programme out of habit, for the info or the race card? Habit and card I'd guess. Why do fans buy SS? Habit, info? Bit a both I'd guess. Wonder what makes more profit for a club...food and drink or programme sales? I'd guess food and drink...open to correction. I'd get rid of programmes altogether, just provide an A4 printed race card if needs be at a £1. I'd have a Club App that you paid for, that automatically updated scores for you as the meeting progressed. Sponsors can still pay to advertise and news can be kept up to the minute. At least it would keep the younger generation interested between heats. Have a treasure hunt for the kids giving clues between heats. Comps and updates and offers between heats for the adults. Make it interactive so fans can voice their feelings from the terraces etc. You've only got to see peoples heads in their phones between heats. Not for the older generation...but maybe a solution for the new to keep them occupied. Still think the SS should print a race card though.

Shame about BWD...was thinking about sponsoring him this season, but heard through the grapevine he wasn't going to be riding for Somerset. Whether this transpires to be true or not, is another thing. Certainly put me off the idea though. Must be the case for a lot of riders chasing sponsorship...not easy when you don't know where you'll be riding each season. Should imagine it puts off a lot of local potential sponsors if a rider is going elsewhere.

Agreed...but if programme sales are the difference between a Club running or not, then I'd say British Club Speedway is totally broke. If people want to save money, they can already print out race cards online. Printing a race card in the SS wouldn't have an influence on programme sales substantially, as the option is already out there. However...it might increase SS sales if it was printed. I'd rather spend the money I've saved on a programme, on an extra beer. I wonder what earns the biggest profit...the beer or the programme?

A possible way of maybe increasing sales in SS, would be to print a generic race 'programme' on the centre pages. They do it for GP's...so why not club meetings? It'll probably piss the Clubs off, but tbh, £2.50 for a programme is a complete waste of money imo, unless you like reading adverts and old news. Sell advertising space around the edge of the printed generic race programme as well. I've stopped buying programmes, print my own out instead, and buy the SS occasionally. I'd buy the SS weekly if it did this. I'm not tight or skint...but Programmes for most sporting events, are a waste of money these days...unless you are a collector.

I really can't see a problem with this ruling. You can always email the owners and ask to take photographs or video for your own pleasue. You never know, you might get a positive answer. In fact this season past, Somerset had a Photography club present at one meeting. All pretty much new to the sport. It was nice to be able to chat to the guys and give them tips of where good viewing points would be, and a little advise on not blocking peoples views. There were a mass of step ladders on the third bend :-)

Thanks for the reply Philip...and yes you can only judge by those who bother to offer preferences. Those who don't, really can't moan if they have been asked to offer feedback. I guess you can only go on the verdicts of the majority who do bother to give opinion. As you say...a bit like Bexit and Trump.

Indeed...however as I asked Philip, I'm not sure whether they have carried out such market research. Surely it would be advantageous to do so occasionally, to find out what the majority want?

Post number 51 Philip... Quote... PHILIPRISING, on 01 Dec 2016 - 03:59 AM, said: PETER Oakes's new feature is a great read and a fabulous addition to SS ... Peter, as befits a top journalist with his track record, has a terrific eye for a story. Thanks for all the comments. Cannot please all of the people all of the time. As for the cost ... if we sold a few thousand more we could afford a cheaper cover price. Unfortunately in a market that has diminished dramatically in recent years that simply isn't a viable option. Forgive me if you have already done this...but how much market research has been done by the magazine with it's readers and speedway fans online, as to what they would want from the magazine? What is the age demograph of the readers? Are sales decreasing every year? What are the projections each year? Is the magazine looking to the future or doing the same as Speedway and ignoring what people actually want?

Exactly...typical of this forum. There was I happily making posts in line with the topic, and asking questions to you, which you never replied to. Your prerogative. Then up pops some sad old fart, changing the topic, and going over old ground that has no reference to this thread. Fishing for an argument. Then when he gets a reply he can't deal with, he reverts to 'how sad'. Then to top it off...you point the fault at me. Look where the fire started Philip. I've been nothing but complimentary of your magazine...and asked reasonable questions. It's obvious on this forum of a clique...talk about gang mentality out of the playground...Sadly...and i'll use your words...typical of Speedway and those who run it. Amateur, playground and embarrassing to the Sport it represents. Circus clowns come to mind.

Yes you definitely are...typical old fart...starts an argument then resorts to this. Wonder how those Juniors are feeling today...

Wtf are you on about? Why bring up an old discussion that isn't relevant in this thread...unless you are looking to start an argument? I refused to except 'technical' issues as I also have a background in working with concrete and steel. I just didn't agree with what was being said...perhaps you'd like to enlighten me with your knowledge. Have you worked in engineering or groundworks or have an understanding of concrete, steel or how a track is built from the ground up? I started going to Speedway in the 70's and followed it all over the place, religiously to well into the 90's. Then I fell away for a few years and kept coming back every so many. You see it one way...I see it another. All I see from your angle, is someone who's been immersed in the sport for many years, got stuck in the bubble, and who can't see the wood for the trees. Someone who used to dabble...has a few acquaintance's in the sport, and sides with anyone who still has any supposed influence in the sport. Basically a nobody anymore, however well regarded for looking after a few juniors, which I respect, but knows deep down, as we all do, that the only thing you can influence now, is a few fuddy duddies on a speedway forum...Sad...but true. Perhaps if you were to walk away from the Sport for a couple years, and take your head out of the ass of the likes of Phillip, poor bloke, then you might see that speedway isn't working. It has nothing to do with concrete starts, or coloured leathers...more so the old idiots like yourself who have got set in their ways and think they know best. Well you might have many moons ago...but you've all pretty much feck*ed it up from then. Care to continue? I could go on about the charges up in Newcastle...just push me.

Very valid point...I have on occasion uploaded footage of speedway via my phone on to social media. It in turn has raised awareness, and some people have rekindled their love of the sport having not been since they were children. Some not even realising there was Speedway a mere 20 minutes drive away from them. Also a rider I used to sponsor, liked it when I sent him footage of his races from different vantage points.

It's been in the programme and on the website before. Pretty much standard practice at speedway and most sporting events. I have noticed they are pretty lenient with people taking videos with their I phones. Even to the point where one fan regularly takes footage in the VIP area in front of the powers that be. Regularly uploaded to Facebook and liked by the riders.

I have excepted that speedway is full of grumpy old men with a chip on their shoulder if anyone dare cross them. That the majority of them think they know it all because they've been some bit part player in the past. I also except that I like watching the racing...but not the politics, bullrubbish and grumpy old hangers on. Too many people looking to start arguments for the sake of it. That's what boredom and old age does to you...too much time on your hands mate.

Forgive me if you have already done this...but how much market research has been done by the magazine with it's readers and speedway fans online, as to what they would want from the magazine? What is the age demograph of the readers? Are sales decreasing every year? What are the projections each year? Is the magazine looking to the future or doing the same as Speedway and ignoring what people actually want?

Peter Oakes pages are also my favourite. The rest I can skim through. Anyone remember the magazine 5-1? How long did that go for?

Speedway Star holds a place in my heart. As a kid I would run home from school on a Thursday afternoon, and rush through the door to get my grubby mitts all over it. I was gutted if it was ever a day late...I would cycle up to the Newsagents just to see if it had been delivered late and the paper boy had missed it. Used to read it from cover to cover. Was overjoyed if a favourite rider was featured. Would go through the league tables and averages religiously. Back in those days it was the only way of getting news. Nowadays it's just a click away on the Internet. I still buy it occasionally...but never read it cover to cover like I used too. Maybe it's me...but I really don't like overly fussy presentation. Clean, neat and simple is my preference. It's a bit like Bike covers emblazoned with different colours and sponsors logos...you either love it or hate it. Front and back cover for me....should just have one photograph, Speedway Star as a heading and the price...nothing else...just clean and classy.

My mistake in explaining better...we all miss the good Ol' days and like to reminisce. What I meant, was those in power, have allowed the sport to deteriorate to what it is now. That's why people prefer to reminisce...as Speedway as a whole today, just doesn't cut the mustard. Even when you take the rose tinted glasses off ;-)

I think there is an interest in the sport from the past. People reminiscing about the old days. You've only got to see what comes up on modern social media...all the old stuff. I'm really surprised you say the books on past riders were seen as a relative success, when only 2500+ were sold. My good friend has recently written a book on the rise of Forest Green Rovers...a non league football club, from a small village in the south Cotswolds. His first book has sold more than that since it's release last month. Hardly any publicity and no history to speak of. Speedway is in a terrible state...only kept alive by those who found love of it in bygone years. Of the sides starting in the Premiership this season, I can realistically see only 5 of them racing next season or possibly finishing this coming season. So many people living in the past and not wanting to change for the good of the sport.

Exactly what I've heard. Plus I've also heard another Club not so far away from Coventry has no intention of running next season. So many people involved in this sport are purely in it for personal gain.

All I can think of, is how Nigel Boocock's family must be feeling...knowing his Ashes are being dug up and sold on at £28 per tonne. 56K to be made from selling that shale. So sad.....

I've had this discussion on here before...and many argued that it easy to identify riders these days with team kevlars. Well for me...I couldn't disagree more. At a quick glance up I used to be able to identify riders straight away by their Individual leathers and more bold race jackets. Now, from a distance it isn't so easy, and for me, I have to look at the helmet colours to identify.

Some good points made fella...I did however say many times in this thread, that it wouldn't be easy and there would be questions to be solved. There would be many...however the whole point of the exercise, is to reduce costs and also stop the daily tinkering on engines by riders and tuners, looking to find that little edge. Time and money wasted in the big picture of things. JAWA and GM are pretty much the only manufacturers used regularly in Speedway...neither would suffer as riders would still want to buy engines for Individual events. They won't have the funds coming from Clubs to finance their individual racing, so would have to find ways of supporting their Individual riding career. Why have Club speedway finance Individual gain? As for Clubs affording engines...I've covered that twice in previous posts above. Employ the tuners available now...how many are there? Spread the costs. Your next point I have covered again regarding selling on current equipment...or most likely it would be kept and used for their Individual events. Differences in engines? Of course...but there is now...no one is on equal ground. You draw lots. Riders would sign a liability document, like in many other sports. I have to when ski racing. As for the rest of your post...yes there are some good ideas there...however I don't think the rev limiter is the answer. How will a rev limiter stop riders tinkering with engines trying to make them go faster? How will it stop them putting in materials that are lighter and not as strong? It won't.