speedyguy

Tragedy indeed. But we are only viewing the accident site straight on - is there a perspective of it looking down the straights so that we can guage how wide the track was from its inner edge to where the staircase was situated. How wide was the track? I have an idea that this may have been an international event - possibly world championship qualifying - and would besides Austrian recognition of the venue would also probabkly have been FIM sanctioned. On a further cautionary note in regard to safety - is this the track where the Austrian star Fritz Dirtl was killed some years before? And Grachan - I am certain the stadium DID stay open. It was probably an athletics stadium adapted for use as needed to stage speedway meetings.

There were several tracks like this operating in Eastern Europe before and after WW2. In the main they were really athletics tracks with speedway just an added event at them, probably once or twice during the season. I believe they were especially in use at one time in Austria.

Threats! I hope only in jest...

I HOPE THESE POSTS FROM MIDGET CAR PANORAMA PROVIDE THE ANSWER IN REGARD TO WHAT TRACK THE PATHE NEWS CLIP WAS TAKEN AT. MIDGET CAR PANORAMA Author Topic: Any ideas? Is it 1934 (Read 131 times) tobyhalter Junior Member member is offline Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 58 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Thread Started on Dec 4, 2009, 9:00am »  Try this link and come up with some answers. I think the driver in glasses might be Walter Mackereth? http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=50087 Link to Post - Back to Top  86.177.115.21 derek New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 31 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #1 on Dec 4, 2009, 10:23am »  The stadium is obviously Wembley. As for the cars and drivers; I remember reading about this event in one of the several books written about the history of Frazer-Nash cars. I'm afraid I can't remember which book, but apparently the owners of Wembley invited the company to bring along a couple of their works cars to test the viability of car racing at the track. Because Wembley was such a huge venture they would try anything to get the public in and earn a bob or two! I doubt if the driver in the glasses was Walter Mackereth as he was working at Harry Skirrows garage up at Ambleside at the time. Harry and the gang didn't move south until about 36. Derek Bridgett Newcastle-under-Lyme Link to Post - Back to Top  193.25.116.40 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #2 on Dec 4, 2009, 11:54pm »  Can't say for sure if it's '34, but it may be even earlier. I'll tell you why in a moment. But if anyone can identify those particular Frazer Nash cars, that may help to date it. I'm fairly certain it's Wembley before they installed the "roof" section that was there by the 1970's, and the guy in the glasses is H.J Aldington. He is of further interest to us for several reasons. Firstly, he took part in the Greenford meeting of 1928, along with Archie Frazer Nash. Aldington was clearly a lover of F-N cars, because he drove one at Greenford, and later acquired the company (AFN) after Frazer Nash himself lost control of it. Furthermore, Aldington was involved in a car demonstration at Wembley as early as October 1931. This apparently took place during (the second half?) a speedway match involving Wembley, Stamford Bridge and Lea Bridge, supposedly in front of a crowd of 60,000! If this information is correct, I'm assuming this was either a three team tournament or a double header of some kind. Obviously the Pathe News clip is not from this event, as the terraces are empty. But it could be from around that time, (was it, as Derek suggests, a trial to see if cars worked on the track at all perhaps?) making it even earlier than '34. In the absence of further details emerging, it may be that the date all hinges on exactly what models those cars are and the date by which they could/would have been in use.  Attachment: HJAldington1935.jpg (17.7 KB) « Last Edit: Dec 4, 2009, 11:57pm by haflinger121 » Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 administrator Administrator member is online Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 329 Karma: 1 Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #3 on Dec 5, 2009, 9:00am »  Here is a quote from the section UK MIDGET CAR HISTORY, CHAPTER THREE. It may throw light on the Pathe News clip and date the venture as 1931. It reads: "At the old ‘traditional’ Wembley Stadium, then hosting the Wembley Lions speedway team, cars similar to those which had appeared at Greenford were given track time in October 1931. "A crowd of 60,000 turned up at Wembley on October 1 - mainly to see the Lions in action against Stamford Bridge. Three cars went into action after the speedway match. The drivers were Mrs T H Wisdom and respected Brooklands drivers R G Nash an H J Aldington. They all carried passengers. Mrs Wisdom and Aldington in Frazer Nash’s clocked times of 24 seconds for a flying lap start. "Nash then had trouble getting his car started and borrowed Mrs Wisdom’s car. His attempt ended in disaster. He went into a broadside and overturned the car. While Nash held on to the steering wheel, his pasenger F Berry was thrown out and suffered an arm injury." « Last Edit: Dec 5, 2009, 9:03am by administrator » Link to Post - Back to Top  Logged http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi kiwikid34 Junior Member member is offline Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 58 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #4 on Dec 5, 2009, 9:29am »   Can the non-driver in the Frazer Nash be the great man himself - Archie Frazer Nash? Newsreel most likely 1931 at the pre-race practice for the race in October. Link to Post - Back to Top  86.179.61.179 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #5 on Dec 5, 2009, 4:18pm »   Whoever that is riding shotgun, it isn't Frazer Nash. I'd guess a journalist or broadcaster. Attachment: Archie Frazer Nash.jpg (26.9 KB) Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #6 on Dec 5, 2009, 4:49pm »  Of course, we don't know who was driving the other car... (Don't bother clicking to enlarge - the close up quality is dreadful, sorry)  Attachment: Nash badge.jpg (18.2 KB) « Last Edit: Dec 5, 2009, 4:50pm by haflinger121 » Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 derek New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 31 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #7 on Dec 7, 2009, 9:36am »   Found these two photos taken from a couple of the many books written about Frazer-Nash. Take a look at the web site www.austiharris.co.uk and enter Greenford in the search box and you should find a few photos from the 28 meeting. Derek Bridgett Newcastle-under-Lyme Attachment: frazer nash.jpg (620.8 KB) Link to Post - Back to Top  193.25.116.40 tobyhalter Junior Member member is offline Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 58 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #8 on Dec 7, 2009, 9:12pm »   Maybe the Frazer Nash cars at Greenford are not recognised as midgets (perhaps because the name had not been coined at the time in 1928 or 1929?) but they look better than some of the cars that appear in photos of races at Crystal Palace and Belle Vue in 1934 and 1935 before the Gnat, Eltos and Skirrows came on the track scene. Link to Post - Back to Top  86.181.13.47 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #9 on Dec 7, 2009, 10:57pm »   If you go back and look at the Pathe News footage again and freeze the action at 0.29.44, you can clearly read the number plate on that car. Guess what - it's MV 158. However, the competition number on the side of the car is different. But I would say (a) that definitely dates this to 1931 and ( that the still picture Derek's posted and the film are both from the same event. My guess: the film is a pre-meeting trial, possibly largely put on for Pathe News's benefit, whereas the still picture is from practice on the actual day of the event, when the car is either wearing its competition number for that meeting, or the number it bore at another event in between the 'trial' and race day. « Last Edit: Dec 7, 2009, 10:59pm by haflinger121 » Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #10 on Dec 7, 2009, 11:20pm »   There are some great pix there Derek, I haven't seen any of those before. That link isn't quite right though - I took a guess that it should actually say 'austin' and this is where I ended up. Well worth the trip! http://www.austinharris.co.uk/photo/1928-j...ck-meeting/3170 Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 administrator Administrator member is online Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 329 Karma: 1 Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #11 on Dec 8, 2009, 9:12am »  Re the latest link:: The photos of Amilcars - great racers. And the name of the colourful Vernon Balls is also mentioned. A great character of the 1920s and 1930s. Link to Post - Back to Top  Logged http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi dirtpilot New Member member is offline Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 15 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #12 on Dec 8, 2009, 11:10am »   The record for 1 lap at Wembley was set by RGJ Nash on the 22/10/1931 in a time of 22.2 secs. this record still stood as of 31/5/1934. All cars that ran on the speedway in England were called "midgets" regardless, but it was not until late 1934/early 1935 that Jean Reville built the first real midgets,prior to this they were "light cars" Link to Post - Back to Top  58.173.148.76 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #13 on Dec 8, 2009, 8:58pm »   By 1937, the benefits of 4WD and a car purpose built for oval racing had enabled Harry Skirrow himself to lower the lap record at Wembley to 19.6 secs, 39.47 mph, recorded on June 17th '37. This record is given in the programme for the meeting of July 16th '38. Does anybody know what Skirrow was actually doing at Wembley in June of '37 - speedway second half appearance or something? Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 dirtpilot New Member member is offline Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 15 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #14 on Dec 9, 2009, 10:01am »   On 10/6/1937 Skirrow & MacKereth had a 25Pd challenge race after the bikes at Wembley,as Wembley was not in the Midget league i can only assume that on the 17th there was some demo or record attempt after the bikes. There is an undated mention of 3 cars appearing at the track after one of the regular meetings but the write-up stated that many of the fans had left & the cars were just a procession,this was in 1937 but i've no idea exactly when.  Author Topic: Any ideas? Is it 1934 (Read 133 times) derek New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 31 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #15 on Dec 9, 2009, 10:03am »  This was a secondhalf appearance. He should have raced there the week before but the meeting was abondoned half awy through due to rain!

Thanks very much Derek. Naughty drivers - no crash helmets! My guess is that the venue is Wembley in the early 1930s. W ithout being accused of 'lamp posting' I will post this on the third link in my signature. There's some genuine experts on that discussion group who I am sure will identify this. When a reply comes over, I'll get back to you. Great stuff - I really appreciate this.

Sadly, I cannot help in regard to the Dutch Championship results for the years you mention.

QUOTE (Robbie B @ Jan 7 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> According to the Speedway Star 2009 Yearbook, that has a full list of all national championships. 1996 Ralf Strack (Germany) 1997 Roy Verbrugge Was Roy Verbrugge related in any way to the 1950s Dutch rider Piet Verbrugge. I met Piet at the Oldenburg track in north Germany way back in 1957 - in a much happier speedway era! The other Dutch riders there were Gerrit Kops and Nico Van Gorcum. Marian Kaiser (Poland) won the event and I think the other main places were Ray Harris (England) and Hans Jager (Germany).

Former East Coast USA pre-war and early post-war Crocky Wright has died aged 91 years. He has been in hospital for some time. Post-war Crocky turned to midget car racing and was also a member of Putt Mossman's motorcycle stunt team in the mid-1940s. He was an author and journalist on most forms of motor sport. His passing leaves Putty Mills as the only other living pre-war USA rider. It now means that only three pre-war speedway riders are living - Mills, Cyril Romaine (Australia) and Jack 'Riskit' Riley (UK). If I receive more information about Crocky Wright's passing I will post it on here.

Yes Keith Farnam is the main subject. But I went through all this stock car stuff a couple of years ago. Not really interested in another debate. I just wondered if you had ever been to a meeting. Getting Yarmouth speedway back would be a fitting tribute to Keith Farman.

Have you ever seen the ultra-expensive non-contact National Hot Rods (very similar to big circuit saloon cars) or the equally expensive Brisca F1 in action?

This been a regular feature to my knowledge for AT LEAST 10 years in the summer months - probably much longer than that. In the winter, there's occasional Sunday meetings.

I should imagine updating Speedway Reseracher is a massive job and what has appeared so far is excellent. Remember it's 80 years of speedway that's being researched. Jim Henry & Co are constantly seeking further information. Like all these history sites it needs co-operation from many quarters to get details collated, then placed them on to a site. I think you can rest assured about the long-term furture of Speedway Researcher.

P1928: Jack Ladd was a pre-war grass track rider who may have also raced speedway at Dagenham before WW2. In 1947 he joined Tamworth in NNL3 and also rode in Holland that year until his fatal accident. Here is some information I have managed to find elsewhere. I hope this helps you - Jack Ladd lived in either Dagenham or Romford.: http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ms&n=4412 Jack Ladd Death date: 30.Aug.1947 Role: rider Circuit: Sportpark Alkmaar Jack Ladd Complete name: Jack Ladd Birth date: ??.???.???? Birth Place: unknown, unknown Death date: 30.Aug.1947 Death Place: unknown, Netherlands Nationality: United Kingdom Gender: male Age at death: ?? Event date: 30.Aug.1947 Series: unknown Race: unknown Event type: race Country: Netherlands Venue: Sportpark Alkmaar Variant: dirt speedway (1946-c. 1965) Role: rider Vehicle type: motorcycle Vehicle sub-type: speedway Vehicle brand/model: unknown Vehicle number: ?? Notes: Jack Ladd, the English dirttrack rider from London was killed on Saturday 30 August 1947 after he had crashed and had been run over by two other competitors Iesberts and Budi on the speedway track of Alkmaar, in the Netherlands. He died when the races were finished the same day. Sources: * Magazine Motor, issue 36 of 05 September 1947. [L] * E-mail by Herman Looman, dated 19 April 2006, citing [L].

There's still a bit more about France t/c. Holland and Belgium early post-war are also interesting - and what about early 1948 action in Madrid, Spain? Meanwhile, before I return to France - on July 27 1948, Dutch riders Jan Bosman and Henk Stemen (senior) rode in the Olympiad at West Ham. There was a run-off between two Harringay riders for the title, Vic Duggan beating fellow Australian Frank Dolan.

There was league racing in Holland just after the war ended, from about 1949 until 1952. They even sent a test team to South Africa in the 1950s. The sport was very strong and well organised for some years. The Dutch even sent a team to ride in a testimonial meeting for England rider Jack Ladd (Tamworth) in 1947. They paid their own exes to Tamworth as a donation for Ladd who died in a crash at Alkmaar earlier that year. For P1928 - he was wll known in the Dagenham-Romford area at one time.

Interesting site. I don't see Otto Holoubek listed! He rode for Ipswich - EXTREMELY briefly - in the late 1950s.

My data indicates that the Buffalo Stadium in Paris last staged speedway in 1948. After that, Arthur Westwood promoted some meetings in Marseilles during 1949 and 1950s when his riders included the Australian Bill Harris who was fairly well known at that time in both NL2 and NL3 racing in UK. Westwood also he used the South Africans Buddy Fuller, Doug Serrurier and Fred Wills, and I'm certain that England's Reg Duval was also briefly linked with the Westwood regime, which also went over the border into Antwerp in Belgium for a few meetings. The French tracks from about 1953 to the late 1960s were at various velodromes with athletics tracks, mainly in Normandy, and the meetings were promoted by Victor Boston. He used the stadiums on a circus-basis with a couple of meetings at each every summer. A well known name in the group for about 10 seasons was the former West Ham, Southampton and Liverpool rider George Bason. Another regular was Jean Landru who was competing in the French-staged world championships as far back as 1930. The main French riders in the 1960s besides Landru were Pierre and Charles Bellisent, Claude Boston, Roger Begasse and Jean du Bardine while Fernand Meynier also rode for the group in the early part of the 1950s. The French championships of the 1950s and 1960s were decided on total points scored by riders during the season.

Ray Liston was an Australian. Records credit him as the 1961 French champion - possibly an ongoing points series event similar to the Speedway GP rounds. Gosh - France again ahead of the rest of the world?

Charles Cullum toured UK with the Putt Mossman team in 1936. In 1949 and 1950 he was a successful member of the Belle Vue team, although in second season was handicapped by a serious knee injury. Charles Bellisent, the French rider, rode for West Ham (handful of matches) in the 1929 Southern League.

France staged its last version of the World Championship in 1937, when the title was won by Martin Scheinweiss (Austria). The previous season it had been won by Charles 'Pee Wee' Cullum (USA).

Further research this morning shows that there were four French riders at the New Cross meeting as the heat details below confirm: the other two were ??? Berthet and Francois Hofecker. Boulard looks fairly impressive with finishing places ahead of such renowned New Cross riders as Stan Greatrex and George Newton. The heat details were: Ht 1: Evans, Boulard, Greatrex, Berthet, 63.8 2 (rerun): Newton, Key, Lemone, Hofecker (ns r/r ), 64.4 3: Key, Boulard, Newton, Berthet, 63.4 4: Greatrex, Evans, Boulard, Lemone, 64.7 My thanks to the Speedway Researcher site for these details.

QUOTE (speedyguy @ Dec 12 2009, 11:22 AM) October 2 1935 New Cross, London LONDON 18 - Nobby Key 5, Ernie Evans 5, Stan Greatrex 4, George Newton 4. PARIS 6 - Leon Boulard 5, Raymond Lemone 1. I have often pondered as to why only two French riders are named for the Paris team. I took the details from the 'South London Press' for the week following match. It's quite likely that there were two other riders in the Paris team, but as they obviously failed to score points were not named in the report. A possibility...if there were two more riders in the Paris team, I wonder who they were?

October 2 1935 New Cross, London LONDON 18 - Nobby Key 5, Ernie Evans 5, Stan Greatrex 4, George Newton 4. PARIS 6 - Leon Boulard 5, Raymond Lemone 1.

Sebastian Roth, another German, also had a spell at Plymouth in the early 1930s.

By the Luftwaffe connection, I assume the rider to be Alfred Rumrich, at Wimbledon in 1937. Maybe the 'German champion' label was given to him in south London when he joined the Dons to add more credence to his reputation. Probably a piece of local journalistic licence?