lucifer sam

Not so sure. Fundin seemed to be the more consistent - their respective World Final records certainly suggest that. Between '56 and '63, I think Fundin would have ruled the roost, although I think Briggo may have forced the issue one year and come through - 1958? Briggo, Knutsson, Plechanov and Fundin would have all been trading blows in '64 and '65, while Briggo probably was ahead in '66 and '67, although there is the matter of Briggo's performance in the 1966 WTC FInal (1 point!!), so would he have scored enough points from the Polish GPs? And then Mauger is supreme from '68 to '75. I reckon Briggo would have won somewhere between 2 and 5 Grand Prix championships. All the best Rob

Maybe I should have included 5 pre-war riders instead of just the two (Wilkinson and Parker). Yeah, OK then, add three more riders to next in line: Vic Huxley, Jack Milne and Tom Farndon. All the best Rob

My top ten would vary day-to-day. Today I'm going for: 1. Ove Fundin 2. Ivan Mauger 3. Hans Nielsen 4. Bruce Penhall 5. Erik Gundersen 6. Tony Rickardsson 7. Peter Craven 8. Barry Briggs 9. Ronnie Moore 10. Vic Duggan Next in line... Jack Young, Ole Olsen, Jason Crump, Nicki Pedersen, Bluey Wilkinson, Bjorn Knutson, Peter Collins, Anders Michanek, Jan O Pedersen, Jack Parker, Greg Hancock, Sam Ermolenko, Per Jonsson, Graham Warren and Tai Woffinden. I've probably left someone out. All the best Rob

Sam Ermolenko always seems to get under-rated. Not quite sure why. Do people remember the fading rider of 1997-2005, rather the superstar of 1985 to 1996? He was the nearest challenger to threatening the Danish domination of the late 80s, and remarkably a serious injury only seemed to spur him on even more. There's no doubt he was the best rider in the world in 1993. Yes, he had a bit of luck on the day, when Frank Ebdon bizarrely didn't spot he shed a chain at the start of the re-run in Heat 15 and gave him another go in the re-re-run. But you often needed a little bit of luck to win a one-off World Final. To me, where Sam proved himself a deserving winner was the World Team Cup Final a couple of weeks later, when he beat Hans Nielsen in a last-heat decider at Coventry. Sam was a fully deserving World Champ. In the ranks of recent one-time winners from around that era, I'd rate him just slightly behind Jan O Pedersen, about level with Per Jonsson, but ahead of Gary Havelock, Billy Hamill and Mark Loram. And Shawn Moran? Come on Sid, there's no comparison there. Moran was ridiculously talented, but Sam Ermolenko was the biggest achiever of the two, without doubt. All the best Rob

Knudsen made a hash of the corner, and drifted too wide. It gave Nielsen the gap he needed. You've then got Nielsen (in front) on the inside half of the track, and Knudsen (now behind) on the outside. Knudsen then turns back in (as you say, he had room to continue on his line), and hits Nielsen's back wheel with his front wheel; Knudsen comes down, Nielsen briefly loses control as a result of being hit; the unfortunate Castagna catches TK's bike. I assume you're also watching the Danish (or German?) coverage - it's far superior to the video of the final, which doesn't capture it well at all. The 1993 final is different - Nielsen picks up a bit of drive and goes into Ermolenko's line. But in 1986, it was Knudsen who changed line to cause the contact. He made a mistake, and tried to correct it too late. All the best Rob

That would make sense. Does anyone have the result of the 1957 European Final? All the best Rob So Forsberg replaced the injured Nygren in the final, pushing Westerburg up to reserve. The 1957 final consisted of: defending champion Ove Fundin (seeded to final), top 5 from European Final, top 5 each from two British semi-finals. Crutcher and Geran finished sixth in the two British semi-finals and I assume they would have replaced any injured rider from "their" semi-finals. So three reserves, but the two reserves on the day were the 'locals' rather than the non-UK based European rider. Has a certain logic to it. All the best Rob

I'd probably pick Jan O slightly above the other two for a similar reason - we always seemed to be riding against Cradley, so I saw a lot of him. Jan O was the one rider who could beat Hans from the back around Cowley - well apart from Carl Blackbird, but that was a one-night only event. From around 1988 onwards, Jan O became Hans' toughest opponent at domestic level. I thought Jan O was a brilliant rider - the amount of speed he could generate, even around the smaller tracks, was simply breath-taking. I feel he would have also been World Champion in 1990, but for the freak off-track injury that ruled him out of the final. All the best Rob

Yes. And it made him all the more determined to win the following year. The difference between, say Hans Nielsen or Jason Crump, and for example Tommy Knudsen or Kenny Carter, is that Hans and Crumpie took bitter disappointment and came back all the stronger from it. Having lost out narrowly twice, Hans Nielsen had the mental toughness to go into a head-to-head showdown with Jan O Pedersen in Heat 20 in 1986, where he could have missed out yet again, and this time make sure he came out the winner. All the best Rob

What a bunch of sour grapes. Muller was far and away the best rider on the day, which is what counted in a World Final. He fully deserved the title. All the best Rob

SCB, a few points: 1. Szczakiel also won the 1971 World Pairs Final, scoring a paid maximum. The New Zealand pair who finished second were two legends in Mauger and Briggs. You said he only had "one decent meeting in his whole career". I would say he had, at the very least, two utterly outstanding ones and has the FIM certificates to prove that! 2. 1973 World Team Cup Final. Szczakiel had a big crash three days beforehand, which affected his performance. 3. In the following year's Continental Semi-FInal (1974), he crashed out injured in his opening ride. 4. He wasn't a 'favourite' with the Polish authorities. However, they set the criteria for their five representatives for the 1973 final, and Szczakiel went out and made sure he got one of the places. Szczakiel was not consistent, but clearly could beat the very best on his day. It's often forgotten that he didn't just beat Ivan in the run-off for first place - he beat him earlier in the meeting too! Mauger did not consider him a fluke winner at all - he knew what the guy was capable of. All the best Rob

So you're saying Per Jonsson, Jan O Pedersen and Sam Ermolenko were "piss poor" and "pretty mediocre"? I think some Reading, Cradley and Wolves fans might take issue with those statements. My flabber has been gasted!! Personally, I thought they were all terrific riders. Per Jonsson was a rider with real trackcraft, Jan O Pedersen was the best over-taker I've ever seen, and Sam Ermolenko put one of the most consistent speedway seasons in 1993. There's no way that this lot were mediocre. All the best Rob

Had the ref got it wrong and excluded Hans, then the only way Tommy could have won it, would have been for Hans to do him a favour in Heat 20 and defeat Jan O, and also then Tommy to defeat Jan O in the run-off for first place. Given how Knudsen handled the pressure (or rather didn't) in other World Finals, my money would have been on Jan O Pedersen... IF the ref had got it wrong and not excluded Knudsen from Heat 15. Fortunately we had a competent ref for that final, who called it correctly. As for my so-called bias, Sid, have I not already said that I believe that Hans Nielsen's exclusion in the 1993 final was correct? All the best Rob

Sid, you've failed to grasp what Humph has actually said. He's said Knudsen did seem to be able to mix it at times with Nielsen at a domestic level (a big compliment, since Nielsen is one of the best riders, it not the best rider, at a domestic level), but couldn't mix it on the biggest stage. And the facts back that up. After finishing third in 1981 at the age of 19, Knudsen failed to finish in the top three again. He always somehow managed to mess it up. In '86, he did a Carter and left a major rival (Nielsen) with a gap on the inside - fatal error. In 1991, he won the supposed winners-takes-all Heat 1, but then threw other points, and ended up getting passed by Nielsen in the run-off for third. In 1992, he won his opening two rides, then fell apart when it started to rain. He again won his opening two rides in 1994... and again finished off the rostrum. Time and time again, Knudsen blew his chance in the World Championship. Performances such as his maximum in the 1985 World Team Cup Final showed how good he could be on the world stage, but when the pressure was really on in the individual event, he couldn't pull it off. He's in good company, there's a lot of good riders who couldn't quite win a World Final. All the best Rob

I like to be fair. And Sam was exceedingly lucky in the re-run, to say the least. But in 1986, the ref got it spot on. What's hilarious about that one is that some try to prove Hans was at fault, by posting the worst video footage-ever posted from somewhere across the other side of the track, around 100m away. When there's far better Danish TV coverage, shot from almost head on, which shows Hans sticking to the inside and TK cutting back across. Knudsen to blame for his own fall. All the best Rob

Now you're talking nonsense, young Sidney. Definite contact in 1986, but it came about because the already passed Knudsen cut back in. There's a camera angle from the Danish TV coverage which shows just how much Knudsen cut back across the track. An attempt to bolt the stable door after the horse had already bolted, with the inevitable consequences. Nielsen's exclusion in the 1993 final was correct, because he drifted across the track and hit Ermolenko. In '86, Hans kept it tight, only for TK to cut back in. All the best Rob

Yes, plus Olsen grabbing Nielsen by the hand at the beginning of the slow-down lap, and the crowd then celebrating. Kittilsen was conned by Ole on that occasion. All the best Rob

The contact I see is right at the end, on the exit of the turn and entry to the straight, when Carter’s front wheel brushes Penhall’s back wheel, as Carter is already on the way down. Are you seeing the knock of the handlebar at the point that Carter says there is contact? (although, as you mention, Carter’s description is somewhat misleading to say the least!). I’ve replayed several times (it’s around halfway around the second bend ) and can’t see a thing that suggests contact at that point, even when watching Carter's handlebar. It’s ironic, they bash into each other several times before that, the last being the entry to the first turn, but Carter comes off without any contact until he’s already on the way down. He really got himself into completely the wrong position. All the best Rob

I’m saying there’s no contact at that point that Kenny Carter says there is contact Watch the slow motion replay as Carter watches it. He says there is contact halfway around the second bend. There isn’t. It’s Carter imagination that there is contact at this point. But there is contact less a second later, on the exit of the bend, as Carter is already coming down. I think his front wheel brushes against Penhall’s back wheel. The referee was never going to exclude Penhall for that. It’s Carter’s decision to stay out there, rather than cut back. Just listen to Briggo – he doesn’t see it remotely as 50/50. What surprises me is that it’s still debated more than 33 years later, when I think there’s only one decision that could have been made. It makes me glad that we had an experienced referee who was handling his seventh or eighth World Final or something like that. The main blot on Tore Kittilsen's record was the 1979 World Paris Final... not the 1982 World Final. All the best Rob

If you're talking about the same bit of contact that I am (I assume so), then it happens when Carter has already charged into no man's land, instead of cutting back in. I think he's already on his way down at that point, even before he brushes Penhall's back wheel with his front wheel. He hits Penhall, rather than the other way around. Although 'hit' is hardly the word - they brush. Not that I think that causes Carter to fall; he's already put himself in the wrong place, and is on the way down. Penhall is a whole bike length in front at this point. Listen to Briggo's comments on the various replays. I don't think Briggo was in either camp, he'd call it the way he sees it anyway (Briggo was always very honest), and he know far more about speedway than either of us. He's of the opinion that Kenny Carter made a big mistake. All the best Rob

Muller was also class in the 1976 World Final. He scored 8 points, should have been 11, but fell off while leading Simmo in his final outing. Egon Muller would have definitely be a GP rider, had a series existed. Might have lacked the consistency to win a series, but would have won rounds. All the best Rob

As Carter falls off, he does brush against Penhall. But that's as he's already coming off. The previous contact is well, well before that. And the next contact is when an already falling Carter brushes into Penhall's back wheel. In no way does that cause Carter to call - he's already on his way down. As Briggo correctly calls (and he knows far more about speedway than either of us), Carter made a big error in giving Penhall the room on the inside. He tries to correct the situation too late, refuses to shut off, runs out of room and comes down, brushing into Penhall's back wheel on the way down. There is no contact from Penhall that causes Carter to fall. The mistake is Carter's. Barry Briggs: "(Carter) clips the back of Penhall's machine". All the best Rob

As evidenced the previous year with Jessup and Ross. The crowd didn't raise a murmur to the orchestrated Heat 20 from 1981. All the best Rob

No, you claimed to see contact, when several other people watching the same coverage, couldn't see any contact. You couldn't see any contact because there was no contact. Not at that point of the bend, in any case. All the best Rob

It's even more impressive than appears on paper. But for a fall while leading his final race in 1956, he would have contested a run-off for first place with Ove Fundin. All the best Rob

And what of Dave Jessup and Larry Ross at the same meeting 12 months previously? Or was that OK, because they were British and Commonwealth riders? Agreed - it was astonishing how much Penhall achieved in such a short period of time. All the best Rob