lucifer sam

Have passed on that question for you - will let you know the reply.

It is Tom Young at No 13.

It's subscription only - announcement here: http://retro-speedway.com/news.php?extend.93 Sadly, the current state of British Speedway and catastrophic closure of tracks such as Coventry has even had an affect on the retro magazines. I always read Backtrack cover-to-cover (well, apart from the pieces I've contributed - no need to read those!), and I would suggest the £25 subscription price is well worth it. In particular, you don't want to miss the Guglielmi interview, which is candid, revealing and very sad in places.

I realise I'm biased as a contributer to the mag, but what a compelling and candid interview with Gary Guglielmi in the latest Backtrack. Read it tonight - he was completely and open honest about matters when Tony McDonald interviewed him.

No problem. It was just an idea that Wikipedia might accept a link to a website such as the Defunct Speedway website.

Gustix, any chance you could please arrange to add something to the Harringay page of the Defunct Speedway page (the track he was most synonymous with), which could then be used as a reference?

Remember that - that was an absolutely appalling decision by Graham Flint.

Iris. I came to the sport a few years later than you, by which time PC had almost god-like status. What he achieved in speedway was fantastic, and he probably was the best rider in the world circa '76 and '77. For me, Tai slightly edges his achievements, even though Tai hasn't finished yet. There's occasions such as the 2018 Speedway Of Nations where Tai just wasn't simply the best rider in the world - he was on a different planet to every other World Class rider. Also, the following should be pointed out: * PC started 1978 by riding in meetings in US, which gained him a ban that led to his absence to the 1978 World Pairs semi-final (with Berry subsequently deciding to show faith in his semi-final pair and not include PC in the final). * PC gave British Speedway a miss in 1981, riding in continental meetings (mostly West Germany). Partially due to an injury sustained towards the end of '80 at Cradley Heath - partially through choice. Not for a moment do I hold the above against PC, but it's an indication that place him in the same times of Tai and he may well have made the same decisions as Tai.

Wolves looks like it might get on tonight, but Swindon has little chance tomorrow and then it seems to be raining until around Tuesday.

Greg is amazing, but he's go some to catch up Posa Serenius. World Champion for the second time at the age of 54, and eventually kicked out of the series at the age of 61, after needing beta-blockers to keep on going and they're on the banned list. And yes, there is yes less depth in Ice Racing, but to beat the top Russians on their sponsored machinery at the age of 54 is still amazing. So maybe Greg's not quite finished after all I agree the only really contentious wildcard is Lindback. That seems daft based on the 10 Grand Prix from this year. It's not like there isn't already another Swede in the series. I don't think he is amongst the best 15 riders in the world - the Polish averages posted seem to confirm that. Drabik and Michelsen have had more successful seasons and one of them should have been given the opportunity.

The big surprise has to be Lindback, simply because of the 13-point chasm between the riders in the eleventh and twelfth places. In short, Lindback was an also ran for the majority of this year’s series. Excluding Greg (out the whole year) and Woffy (injured and then coming back from injury), Lindback was the second worst rider in this year’s series, ahead of only Kolodziej. Odd that he’s been included, ahead of the likes of Drabik and Michelsen, who clearly showed better form in 2019. With 14 of the same permanent 15 riders as 2019, the GP is in danger of becoming a closed shop. Even “the new face” (Fricke) rode in half of this year’s series as second reserve rider. It needed at least one fresh face. Drabik or Michelsen would have provided that.

I suppose a quite different list would be which of the eight riders had the most potential. Looking at the way that Michael Lee strolled to his first World Championship at the age of 21, he might be No 1 for that one. At the time, it was mentioned that he had to be a contender to go on to match or surpass Mauger. Instead it turned out to be his only title.

It's not about needing another Pole. It's about having the best 15 riders in the world (or as near as possible) in the series. None of the alternatives are as good as Drabik.

Woffinden Hancock Laguta Drabik

I thought the discussion might be more on whether I'd actually placed Jack Parker high enough The winner of the sport's premier event in both 1934 and 1947 (including toppling the "unbeatable" Duggan in the '47 final). One of the top riders for a long, long time. Made the Match-Race Championship his own personal property for a number of years.

Cheers Norbold!

An excellent summary, which matches my reckoning as well. Price's overall record was superior to that of Williams, and was a class act over a long career. I do count the 1946 BRC - which was the equivalent to the World Final. Parker, Farndon, Langton and Frank Charles also won such meetings, and also factoring them in: 1. Peter Craven 2. Tai Woffinden 3. Peter Collins 4. Jack Parker 5. Michael Lee 6. Tommy Price 7. Eric Langton 8. Tom Farndon (sorry Norbold, can only judge him on what he won, rather than what he might have won) 9. Mark Loram 10. Freddie Williams 11. Frank Charles 12. Gary Havelock Bottom two are interchangeable.

Lee may well have surpassed Collins, but we'll never know. As it is, PC's accomplishments are above those achieved by ML. I've said PC, PC and Woffy are my "big three", there's a possibility that Lee would be fourth. He's certainly above Havvy and Mark Loram. The latter was a real favourite of mine, but he would have to come towards the bottom of the list. Actually, let's have a go at a list (with the proviso that the top three are interchangeable): 1. Peter Craven 2. Tai Woffinden 3. Peter Collins 4. Michael Lee 5. Tommy Price 6. Mark Loram 7. Freddie Williams 8. Gary Havelock.

Sid, the power of DVD/video is that many of PC's finest moments are captured for posterity. And he was obviously an incredible speedway rider. Plus he won 10 FIM Gold Medals and no other British rider can match that (and he was at the forefront of many of those triumphs e.g. his unique hat-trick of WTC maximums). As I said, PC, PC and Tai stand above the others. Well IMO, anyway.

Again, very interesting. That ties in with one of the reasons I've heard behind the Oxford rumour - that he wanted to sign for Cheetahs because it would be easier to get over to the continent.

Norbold, all very interesting and further evidence that Peter Craven's plans for 1964 were much very up in the air at the time of his tragic accident. Maybe he would have stayed at Belle Vue, maybe he would have made a further attempt to move elsewhere, maybe he would have retired. No-one can know for sure, which is why I used the word "rumour" regarding the Oxford '64 move, because very possibly that's all it was. Although I was very curious when I heard it from a Belle Vue fan at the NSS, in addition from a few of the older fans at Oxford. It might be wishful thinking from Cheetahs' fans. But why would a BV fan also think that? Of course, the Brian Burford book comes down on the side of Craven starting off a handicap in his fateful race - something I just can't agree with. Especially as I have a copy of the tribute booklet published shortly after his death which states unequivocally that he started off scratch, something the Edinburgh Speedway historians agree with. As for rating the British World Champions, I consider the top three to be PC, PC and Woffinden, but can't decide on the order, as I never saw Craven at all, and didn't see Collins at his best. But those three stand above the others IMO - Craven for arguably being the second best (behind Fundin) during a very competitive era, Collins because he was unlucky not to be a multiple champion (especially in '77) and Woffy for obvious reasons (the only British triple champion).

Sid, he placed a transfer request in April 1963. It was reported in the speedway press, and also recorded in the Peter Morrish book.

Sid, first Testimonial was Eric Boocock's in the mid-70s. No such thing in the 60s.

A few of the older supporters at Oxford used to talk about it. From the Belle Vue end, the chap who sells the programmes at the NSS is convinced PC was moving to Oxford in '64. Remember Craven had already put in a transfer request at the start of 1963 (which we later withdrew). To do that, there must have been a track where he was considering to move. Maybe just a rumour, but maybe there was some substance in it.

My dad always reckoned Peter Craven was the best rider of his era around the Oxford track. It took many years for anyone to beat the track record that PC set against Fundin in a Golden Helmet match race in 1963. It was heavily rumoured that Craven was coming to Oxford in 1964. He'd put in a transfer request with Belle Vue at the start of '63, but was persuaded to stay one more season. Craven's main two reasons for wanting to join Oxford were apparently that it would be easier to get across to continental meetings, plus he'd be racing around a track that he loved.