lucifer sam

Because we went off-topic very early on. All the best Rob

Interesting. So there is much more of a correlation between averages and champions from 1965 onwards. Why is that? Is that because the likes of Mauger (who did the double 4 times) and Nielsen (3 times) etc were that much more dominant of was it because the post-war years were that much more competitive? Or was it becuase Wembley produced a big home track advantage, since Jack Parker in 1947 aside, the lowest postioned riders in the averages who triumphed were the Wembley riders. All the best Rob

Salty, whoops, that'll teach me not to read the whole thread. All the best Rob

Salty - Iris was asking for riders who had done the World Championship / top of BL averages double. None of the above did that double. And it was PC who topped the 1980 averages - Nielsen missed out by a fraction (less than 0.01). But Nielsen then topped the averages from 1984 to 1990 inclusive, therefore surpassing Mauger's previous BL record, who topped the averages for 5 sucessvie seasons (plus an extra season in 1975). Prior to 1965, I'm sure Jack Young, Ronnie Moore and Ove Fundin did the double. How many riders did the following treble - World Champion / BLRC winner / top of BL averages. Briggs did in 1966, and Nielsen in 1986 & 1987. Any others? All the best Rob

Since the formation of the British League, it's something like: 1966 - Barry Briggs 1968 - Ivan Mauger 1969 - Ivan Mauger 1970 - Ivan Mauger 1972 - Ivan Mauger 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1993 - Sam Ermolenko 1996 - Billy Hamill 1998 - Tony Rickardsson 2002 - Tony Rickardsson 2004 - Jason Crump 2006 - Jason Crump All the best Rob

Iris - nice try (and I realise you're being somewhat facetious) but no. Erik Gundersen never once topped the BL averages. I'm someone who considers British racing as the bread & butter of my interest in the sport, so he can't be better than a rider who topped the BL averages a record seven times in succession (1984-1990). All the best Rob

With league averages of 11.83 in 1986 and 11.73 in 1987, he was good everywhere. And he's held the Oxford track record since June 1985 - the last person apart from Hans to hold it was Marvyn Cox, who held the track record for a grand total of 2 days before Hans got it back. The last time he broke it was 1988, on a very wet and very grippy track. Four laps at full pelt without putting a foot down - Hans beat second placed Knudsen by half a lap. All the best Rob

Iris - that shows you're relying on third hand information, rather than first-hand eye witness evidence. Because Hans was actually more vulnerable around Oxford than away tracks. In the season he set his 11.83 league average, all his points were dropped at home. He had a 12.00 away average. There were a few away tracks where Nielsen dropped a point once in a blue moon - and Cradley was one of them. But yes, Gundersen was a much better rider than Gollob, although I did see a few ocassions where Erik became completely unmotivated when things started to go wrong. Gundersen did have bad meetings, and sometimes at world level. Anyway, I still maintain that no-one could have matched Hans Nielsen over an 8-round GP series between 1985 and 1989 (his prime years). We'll see if Tony Mac and John Berry agree. All the best Rob

Erik's most extreme performances at Oxford came in two weeks in 1984. One week he came and beat Hans 2-0 in the Golden Helmet, breaking the track record into the bargain, the next week he came in a league match and scored a frankly rubbish 2 from 5 rides, including a couple of defeats to Hans, also tasting defeat to the likes of Mel Taylor and Jens Rasmussen. Erik was a man for the big occasion and was a great rider. However, Hans was the one with the consistency (sorry that word again). And Hans could also pull off a big win when it mattered - look at Heat 20 of the 1986 World Final or the run-off for first place in the 1986 World Pairs. And plenty of wins over Erik in last heat deciders at Dudley Wood, where Hans was supreme, much to the disgust of the Cradley fans. Looking at the GP series and you've got Gollob. Here's a man for the big ocassion - twice in three years he's pulled it out of the fire for the Poles in the World Cup in the final race, plus he's won the Polish GP in the cauldron of Bydgoszcz countless times. And yet he hasn't been become World Champion, because he's never been able to match the consistency of Crump, Rickardson or Pedersen across a whole series. The key to the GP series is consistency. It's not the man who wins the most GPs who wins the series, it's the rider who consistently piles up the points in each Grand Prix. All the best Rob

Arnie, I'm considering doing just that. All the best Rob

Salty, don't get me wrong, I think Erik was a great rider. That's why I made sure I gave him at least one GP championship, some people didn't even give him that, but I think that's inconceviable. It's just I saw Hans Nielsen a lot - and he had a bad meeting about once every five years. At his prime, I believe he was the most consistent rider ever seen. From 1985 to 1989, Nielsen in a GP series would have been a very, very hard man to beat over 8 rounds - even for a great rider such as Gundersen. 1982 has to be Penhall or Carter - the question is which one. 1983 is maybe the hardest year to predict of all. There's no outstanding candidate, but arould 6 or 7 riders who could have done it. All the best Rob

Salty, apart from maybe 1984, I can't see how Erik would have triumphed in any other year. I don't think Hans would have missed a final of a GP round between 1985 and 1989. Erik may have won more rounds than Hans some years, but it would have been very difficult for Erik to deal with Hans over the 8-round series that Backtrack stipulated. Erik was a great rider but was not consistent - look at the 1986 World Final (7 points), the 1987 BLRC (4 points) or the 1988 World Paris (in which a paid max from Hans carried a hugely up-and-down performance from Erik) as examples to Erik's inconsistency. Remember in the GP series every point counts - in the World Finals between 1984 and 1989, Erik and Hans won three each, but Hans scored 13 points more than Erik from these finals. I believe there would have been years when Erik would have won 3 or 4 rounds, but still missed out due to Hans's sheer consistency. All the best Rob

Yet it is. But I can't help feeling that they've done Ivan Mauger something of a disservice. Mauger was the dominant rider in world speedway up until around 1975, and I can't see him not winning another championship after either 1971 or 1972, whatever the format of the championship. All the best Rob

Did he? He was born in Britain, his dad is British and his mum is British. So in what way did he "choose" to be British?? He IS British. All the best Rob

I only hope you are right. For once. All the best Rob

Blimey, someone needs to get out more. All the best Rob

As Zorro demonstrated at Coventry, underestimate him at your peril. And he qualified, fair and square However, Kennett has never shown any form at all at world level (he was shocking in the World Cup this year)... or even at domestic level outside of the UK for that matter. He's gonna get slaughtered. All the best Rob

Edward Kennett in the GP series? Please tell me this is some sort of joke - the poor bloke will be massacred. He'll be lucky to get a point per GP. All the best Rob

I think they normally decide at the FIM Autumn Congress, which is normally held (I think) in the final week of October. So probably very soon. All the best Rob

Normally a fortnight before each Grand Prix. Do you mean the four seeded riders as opposed to the one wildcard for each Grand Prix? All the best Rob

Snyper, I think there is a need, simply because it is a multi-round series instead of a one-off. There were a couple of times in the early years of the GP series (before seeding) when riders who would have added a little colour to the series weren't in it - e.g. Gollob in 1996 and Crump in 1997. I would add an extra proviso, though - not only is it only one seeded rider per country, but also a rider could only be seeded in just the once. So you wouldn't have a situation develop where a rider who has never qualified for the series is in it for five years!! All the best Rob

Snyper, I think I'd go for: * Top 6 from GP series qualify for next year's series * Qualifying rounds throughout April and May, culminating in a qualifying final in late May, from which 6 riders qualify * Three seeded riders - maximum of one seeded rider from any one country All the best Rob

Phil, he was on my list which automatically contained all 11 riders who had qualified for the 2010 series (which is why I only named the other four). I believe in the qualifiers - and think that a closed shop without qualifying rounds would diminish the status of the World Championship. I'd actually go further and have qualifying rounds through April & may and then start the series in June - so every rider wakes up on January 1 of that year with a chance of being World Champion. Zorro won at Coventry, so he deserves to be there!! All the best Rob

Yep, watched by 10 million on BBC1, plus millions of others worldwide. Well done Mark Webber. All the best Rob

I've resisted posting until the final GP is done and dusted, because otherwise any answer becomes a bit of a nonsense once the top eight changes - as it did last night. OK, we all know the 11 qualifiers for next year's series - and I believe in the majority of riders qualifying instead of being chosen. So I go with those 11. But how about the other four? I will give two answers - firstly who personally I would put in, and then who I think will be in. My seeded riders would be: 1. Fredrik Lindgren. Improving all the time and only just missed out on the top 8. Only a matter of time before he wins a Grand Prix and climbs the rankings further. 2. Hans Andersen. Something of an enigma in 2009, but far too good not to be in the Grand Prix series. 3. Antonio Lindback. Somewhat inconsistent, but has excelled in his two wildcard appearances during this season. Another enigma, but he's exciting to watch and adds a little colour to the GP series. 4. Ummmm... tricky. However, I am going to plump for World Under-21 Champion Darcy Ward. I know people will stay he's too young, but wasn't exactly the same said about Sayfutdinov 12 months ago? If you're good enough, you're old enough. And Ward is a truly exceptional talent. However, I don't think those will be the 4 riders. I think it probably will be: 1. Fredrik Lindgren 2. Hans Andersen 3. Chris Harris 4. Tai Woffinden There aren't any British riders good enough to be in the GP series, but it appears the GP selection committee, rightly or wrongly, always plump for two Brits. Harris, whilst a also-ran in the GP series in 2009, is our best rider. And Woffinden is our best young rider. So I think they'll be the two Brits seeded into the series. All the best Rob