lucifer sam

So Rangers and Celtic reaching the final of the UEFA Cup (as both have done in recent years) are humiliating themselves? Bad example Hatcham. How many Grand Prix finals did Chris Harris reach this season?? All the best Rob

Colin, I'm proud of them when they give us something to be proud of. Like Harris at Cardiff in 2007. Sadly, since then he just hasn't cut it and do you really think a rider who has finished 13th and 14th in the last two series deserves a place in 2010, especially when the GP Challenge was on his home track and he still blew it. I have nothing against Chris Harris, in fact I think he's a brilliant rider to watch, but he doesn't deserve to be in the 2010 GP series. All the best Rob

You seriously think "Sicknote" should be in the GP series? Has April 1 come early?? And I think Gary Havelock (an active British rider) has a slightly more impressive World Chamionship medal than "Sicknote". Will you be calling for Havvy to be put into the GP series next? All the best Rob

No it doesn't. Harris is only the World No. 14 because there are only 15 permanent riders in the GP series. The likes of Lindback, Iversen and Ward would all finish ahead of him, if there were in the GP series. Harris hasn't looked remotely like finishing in the top 8 in the last two seasons - he doesn't deserve yet another chance. It's pathetic when the rider who finished 14th in the series is put back in. It means there are riders finished ABOVE Harris in the 2009 GP standings and yet Harris is back in and they are not. Seb Ulamek and Greg Walasek both should be well pissed off that a lesser rider (Harris) has been put in before them. All the best Rob

Chris, well I know he didn't and so do you. Oxford won both meetings he rode in by 20 points or more and would have would them just as easily using R/R for Chris Mills at No.1 (Millsy was a designated heat leader for the Academy in August, replaced by Ben Barker from September) as Jamie Robertson. The highly suspect introduction of Grant MacDonald at Wimbledon on a false grade (when Oxford signed Grant in 2007 he was on his proper Grade 11, so why not at Wimbledon in 2005?) nearly had far more impact on the title race. I'm sure Parsloes agrees as well. Anyway, back to topic. I agree with those who can't understand why there has to be two Brits in the series. I don't see how if would effect the attendance at Cardiff. If there was one permanent Brit in the series (e.g Woffinden) plus one wildcard (e.g. Harris), that would be more than enough and more than we deserve. What have we done to deserve to get two Brits seeded into the 2010 GP series? And when was the last time the highest ranked Brit in the world was the World No. 14? All the best Rob

Parsloes, for once we are in complete agreement. Woffinden is 100% British. In fact, some would say he's more British than Mark Loram. All the best Rob

Chris, I thought Nicholls had a poor record (qualified 3 times, seeded 5 times) but it's nothing on Harris. Nothing against the bloke, but he shouldn't be in the series next year. This year he finished 14th out of 15. It seems ridiculous that riders of the quality of Lindback and Ward are not in the series, and yet Harris is. EDIT: And Chris, there's no such thing as a permanent wildcard. He's either a seeded rider or a nominated rider. All the best Rob

So, in other words, yet another sickie from Richardson. At least the excuse was novel this time - not like "the van broke down" for the 2007 ELRC. What was the excuse for this year's ELRC? All the best Rob

Steve, well he seems to be listed as one of the four seeded riders. All the best Rob

Can we please change the title of this thread? Harris, Woffinden, Lindgren and Andersen are seeded riders - they are not wildcards. The wildcard is the 16th rider (usually from the home country) nominated for each Grand Prix. All the best Rob

All the W's - Wembley, White City, Wimbledon and West Ham. White City was demolished, Wembley was rebuilt without a speedway track and Wimbledon is still there but with unwilling landlords. What about West Ham? All the best Rob

No, it was a World Final not the Incontinental Final. All the best Rob

Humph, no I missed Katowice, I couldn't persuade my parents to do that one. I did Wembley (1981) and Bradford (1985) and then all the finals between Amsterdam (1987) and Gothenburg (1991). Apart from Wembley, my favourite World Final was Amsterdam in 1987. A much underrated final - with terrific racing on the opening night. Nielsen had clutch problems that evening, missed the start in every race and still scored 12 points. He had to pass everyone from behind, including Henny Kroeze. All the best Rob

Dekker, if flopped means getting off the floor after a horrendous fall (after being sent sprawling by Per Jonsson) and still taking it to a run-off for first place, then yes he did flop. Who was Swindon representative in 1988? And where did he finish? And who was your last World Champion - Briggo in 1966?? Remember a year later in 1989, Oxford had not only the World Champion, but the World No. 1 AND the World No. 2. At which point our "All The Rest Will be Feeling Blue When Hans And Wiggy Finish 1 & 2" banner was produced and displayed proudly as Wiggy beat Jeremy Doncaster in the run-off for second place. It even got mentioned in following week's Speedway Star. I guess success like that is difficult for a Swindon fan to relate to. All the best Rob

Well, I won't be going to any of them. Went to the 1988 World Final and the whole thing was shambolic. We ended up viewing the meeting whilst stood in a puddle because there was nowhere else to stand. All the best Rob

I was definitely not a fan of Kenny Carter (I was firmly in the Penhall camp), but I still couldn't put this book down once I started reading it. It's compulsive reading - I would recommend it. Buy it while you still can. All the best Rob

Because we went off-topic very early on. All the best Rob

Interesting. So there is much more of a correlation between averages and champions from 1965 onwards. Why is that? Is that because the likes of Mauger (who did the double 4 times) and Nielsen (3 times) etc were that much more dominant of was it because the post-war years were that much more competitive? Or was it becuase Wembley produced a big home track advantage, since Jack Parker in 1947 aside, the lowest postioned riders in the averages who triumphed were the Wembley riders. All the best Rob

Salty, whoops, that'll teach me not to read the whole thread. All the best Rob

Salty - Iris was asking for riders who had done the World Championship / top of BL averages double. None of the above did that double. And it was PC who topped the 1980 averages - Nielsen missed out by a fraction (less than 0.01). But Nielsen then topped the averages from 1984 to 1990 inclusive, therefore surpassing Mauger's previous BL record, who topped the averages for 5 sucessvie seasons (plus an extra season in 1975). Prior to 1965, I'm sure Jack Young, Ronnie Moore and Ove Fundin did the double. How many riders did the following treble - World Champion / BLRC winner / top of BL averages. Briggs did in 1966, and Nielsen in 1986 & 1987. Any others? All the best Rob

Since the formation of the British League, it's something like: 1966 - Barry Briggs 1968 - Ivan Mauger 1969 - Ivan Mauger 1970 - Ivan Mauger 1972 - Ivan Mauger 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1993 - Sam Ermolenko 1996 - Billy Hamill 1998 - Tony Rickardsson 2002 - Tony Rickardsson 2004 - Jason Crump 2006 - Jason Crump All the best Rob

Iris - nice try (and I realise you're being somewhat facetious) but no. Erik Gundersen never once topped the BL averages. I'm someone who considers British racing as the bread & butter of my interest in the sport, so he can't be better than a rider who topped the BL averages a record seven times in succession (1984-1990). All the best Rob

With league averages of 11.83 in 1986 and 11.73 in 1987, he was good everywhere. And he's held the Oxford track record since June 1985 - the last person apart from Hans to hold it was Marvyn Cox, who held the track record for a grand total of 2 days before Hans got it back. The last time he broke it was 1988, on a very wet and very grippy track. Four laps at full pelt without putting a foot down - Hans beat second placed Knudsen by half a lap. All the best Rob

Iris - that shows you're relying on third hand information, rather than first-hand eye witness evidence. Because Hans was actually more vulnerable around Oxford than away tracks. In the season he set his 11.83 league average, all his points were dropped at home. He had a 12.00 away average. There were a few away tracks where Nielsen dropped a point once in a blue moon - and Cradley was one of them. But yes, Gundersen was a much better rider than Gollob, although I did see a few ocassions where Erik became completely unmotivated when things started to go wrong. Gundersen did have bad meetings, and sometimes at world level. Anyway, I still maintain that no-one could have matched Hans Nielsen over an 8-round GP series between 1985 and 1989 (his prime years). We'll see if Tony Mac and John Berry agree. All the best Rob

Erik's most extreme performances at Oxford came in two weeks in 1984. One week he came and beat Hans 2-0 in the Golden Helmet, breaking the track record into the bargain, the next week he came in a league match and scored a frankly rubbish 2 from 5 rides, including a couple of defeats to Hans, also tasting defeat to the likes of Mel Taylor and Jens Rasmussen. Erik was a man for the big occasion and was a great rider. However, Hans was the one with the consistency (sorry that word again). And Hans could also pull off a big win when it mattered - look at Heat 20 of the 1986 World Final or the run-off for first place in the 1986 World Pairs. And plenty of wins over Erik in last heat deciders at Dudley Wood, where Hans was supreme, much to the disgust of the Cradley fans. Looking at the GP series and you've got Gollob. Here's a man for the big ocassion - twice in three years he's pulled it out of the fire for the Poles in the World Cup in the final race, plus he's won the Polish GP in the cauldron of Bydgoszcz countless times. And yet he hasn't been become World Champion, because he's never been able to match the consistency of Crump, Rickardson or Pedersen across a whole series. The key to the GP series is consistency. It's not the man who wins the most GPs who wins the series, it's the rider who consistently piles up the points in each Grand Prix. All the best Rob