lucifer sam

Ron, I don't know about Ice Speedway (is that what happens at Telford?), but Ice Racing at Assen is great. I would recommend it to you - you won't be disappointed. PS Why do you post in that aggressive purple colour? All the best Rob

Tony, didn't Ivan throw the run-off for third place? Michael Lee won the 1979 Inter-Continental Final meeting fair and square. The British Final was prestigious at this time, but remember Peter Collins didn't mind giving the meeting a miss in 1977. As for the 1984 and 1985 World Finals, of course we'll never know, but I don't feel Carter would have finished on the rostrum in either meeting. He'd failed to finish in the top three in a very open 1983 World Final and the '84/'85 meetings were, IMO, tougher meetings. Other riders were emerging by this time, whilst Carter was slipping backwards. His peak was 1982. All the best Rob

Tony, but Carter never won a single international round of the World Championship. Not even a single one. During the 1981-1983 period (Carter's prime), British riders who won an international round of the World Championship were: Dave Jessup, Les Collins & Phil Collins. And British riders who finished on the rostrum in a World Final were Les Collins (1982) and Michael Lee (1983). As for Carter being "nailed on" to win at Odsal in 85, was he really? How come he only finished second in the Overseas Final, then? And this was in a meeting lacking the Danes. Shawn Moran, who beat Carter in the Overseas Final, scored 10 points in the World Final. Would Carter have got any more? Remember the Yanks also had Carter's measure in the World Pairs semi-final held at Bradford in 1985. And the Danes proved there were even better around the Odsal bowl during the 1985 World Final. Would Carter have beaten Gundersen and Nielsen? I very much doubt it. All the best Rob

Kaiser, it doesn't really explain what happened at Norden after the interval though, does it? Had Carter gone out and won his final two rides, all he needed was for one rider to beat Muller to force a run-off. And had Nielsen not suffered an e/f whilst leading Muller, then that would have happened. All the best Rob

Carter's World Final record: 1981: 3-2-3-R-3 11pts (2nd at interval - finished 4th=) 1982: 3-3-3-FX-1 10pts (1st at interval - finished 5th) 1983: 2-3-3-1-1 10pts (2nd at interval - finished 4th=) 27 points out of 29 before the interval (93% of points available). 6 points out of 18 after the interval (just 33% of points available). I would place Sigalos as a better rider than either Carter or Shawn Moran. He's possibly the one rider who may have been able to do something about the Danish domination of the later half of the 80s, but for that dreadful injury in the 1984 American Final (although, having said that, Siggy was struggling to qualify from the 1984 American Final when his accident struck). And I agree - the 1983 World Final was there for the taking and Carter didn't take his chance. Look at how other some other riders reacted to World Championship heartache. Nielsen in 1986 after finishing second in 1984 & 1985. Crump in 2004 after being pipped at the post in 2003. Pedersen in 1991 after missing 1989 & 1990 through injury. Etc, etc. They all came back bigger and stronger and won the elusive title they so craved. Carter wasn't able to do that. All the best Rob

Hans Nielsen was plagued by clutch problems on the first day of the 1987 World Final yet still scored 12 points, passing around 7 to 9 opponents (including Henny Kroeze - how did he get behind him ) from the back. Nielsen also transformed the 1985 final with a wide sweep around Jan Andersson in his third ride. Before that, there no been no passing. After that, there was loads. And Nielsen passed riders on a weekly basis whilst riding for Oxford - it's impossible to get a 11.83 league average relying solely on gating. Nielsen was a great gater - but that's certainly not all he was. Hans Nielsen & Kenny Carter didn't get on at all, from what I recall - there was no love lost between those two at all. Of course, Kenny also didn't like the Americans or PC & Mort. And most the other Brits didn't like him either. Did any of the other riders like Carter? He seemed to get on alright with Wiggy (who got on with just about everyone). Was there anybody else? All the best Rob

Falcace, I wasn't taking it as a personal dig, it's just that I never liked Kenny Carter and never will. I read the book, and it's clear that he had a tough time of it, but it's still no excuse to turn out the way he did. Carter was the best rider in the British League in 1982. However, the fact he never won an individual international round of the World Championship (by the end of 1983, many of his rivals had, but he hadn't) or finished on the World Final rostrum is telling. Despite his talent, there seems to be a limit to what he could win - probably coming from inside his head. Carter seemed to be very good at beating himself. Looking af Carter's list of major honours, four of them came in this country, two British Finals and two BLRCs. Only one came outside the country - the 1983 World Pairs. And that was a lucky win. Australia were the best pair that day, but lost points, while England received some gift points. I don't subscribe to any of the romantic ideals about Kenny Carter - that he would have eventually had won the World Championship had he not wiped out life and that of his wife. He wouldn't. His career had been on the slide since the beginning of the 1983 season - I couldn't believe how bad he was in the England v Denmark test match at Oxford in 1985. His hopes of becoming World Champion disappeared the day he lost his cool in the race against Penhall in LA. All the best Rob

Falcace, I was watching the sport at the time. And Carter was a huge talent - but also had a huge ego, a nasty temperament and was not a team man at all. I didn't like Carter from the 1981 Overseas Final onwards, when his and Penhall's bike locked together and he acted like a spoilt brat, accusing Penhall of deliberately knocking him off. I'm glad he didn't win more - he didn't deserve to. All the best Rob

Unfortunately it only applied wearing an England racejacket in individual competitions, though. I remember two very contrasting performances from Carter at Oxford in big meetings. One came in 1984, when he rode through the pain barrier to finish third in 11 points in the British Semi-Final, his first meeting since his broken leg. He even got back up after a fall in one race. Very brave and courageous performance. The following year saw an Engand v Denmark test match at Oxford. A fully fit Carter simply couldn't be bothered and scored just one point for his country. All the best Rob

He still didn't win much during those three years though. All the best Rob

Hmmmm... BLRC winner (1981 & 1982) British Champion (1984 & 1985) World Pairs Champion (1983) And that's about it. There's a lot, lot of other riders who have won far more than that, including several Brits from around Carter's era (Peter Collins, Michael Lee, Simon Wigg, etc). Blimey, even Kelvin Tatum won more big time events than Kenny Carter. All the best Rob

On a neutral track, it would be Waterman, with Nygren second. All the best Rob

I assume this meeting would be held at the old Wembley. In which case, Freddie Williams is the likely winner, as he won two World Championships against tougher line-ups than the one listed. All the best Rob

Paulco, I'm not sure if that would be a good idea. I'd probably be paralytic by the time the meeting started. And I think Mrs Paulco might have something to say when you rolled in at 6am the following morning. The GP at Cardiff is already dangerous enough for you, with all those tricky pavements. All the best Rob

I've still got a couple of my Tiger Annuals from the early 80s, in which speedway had a regular strip. All the best Rob

Ok then, Norbold, I'll go and read the report of High Beech in the excellent "Speedway's Classic Meetings" (even if it does miss out Oxford v Ipswich in the KOC Final from 1985 ). I trust that one is 100% accurate. All the best Rob

In run-offs for first place, surely Hans is 2-3 as he beat both Ermolenko & Boyce in such run-offs (and Erik is 3-0 not 2-0). I think you're twisting the stats the way you want them. The way I see it is: in the World Final and World Pairs Finals run-offs, Nielsen's record is 7-3. And the 3 losses all came in meetings where he was the worst for wear by the end of the meeting. In 1985 he walking it until he was brought crashing down in his fourth outing and ended up losing his No.1 bike on which he mullered Gundersen in Heat 4, in 1988 he continued in the meeting despite being injured in his first ride (look at the photos of Hans that day following the fall, he doesn't look quite right - did he contunue in the meeting with concussion?) and in 1994, he had only just returned from injury and was still only semi-fit. Twice the Danes had to pick a man to win a run-off for them in the World Pairs. Twice they picked Nielsen and ignored Gundersen. Twice Nielsen won the run-off for Denmark. Once (1984) the Danish team manager in question was Ole Olsen, who picked Nielsen ahead of Gundersen, the rider he was managing. Nielsen not being any good in run-offs is a myth - and one who seem to be trying to perpuate. And the cold hard facts is that it's just not true. And I don't think anyone could win a record 22 World Championship Gold Medals (Hans actually has 23 FIM Gold Medals as one was also handed out to the winner of the Champion Of Champions) without being good under pressure. Nielsen often came good under pressure, the 1979 World Pairs Final (5-1 with Olsen in final race), the 1986 World Final (final race shootout against Jan O), 1986 World Pairs Final (won in a run-off) and the 1988 & 1990 World Pairs Final (both won with a Danish maximum in the final to break the hearts of England & Australia respectively) are all examples of this. And shall we look at who did better in pressure last-heat deciders between Cradley Heath and Oxford at Dudley Wood, because I recall Nielsen being supreme in those. Gundersen, Pedersen and Cross used to have thier arses kicked on a regular basis by Hans at Dudley Wood. All the best Rob

When did Hoskins first promote in England? Around 1929 / 1930 wasn't it? Must dig out my copy of the excellent Pre-Way Years by Robert Bamford when I get home. All the best Rob

Is that really true? Hans Nielsen's record in run-offs: 1984: Nielsen, King 1985: Gundersen, Nielsen, Ermolenko 1988: Gundersen, Nielsen 1991: Nielsen, Knudsen 1993: Nielsen, Louis 1994: Rickardsson, Nielsen, Boyce A 5-3 record. Compare to Ivan Mauger: 1972: Mauger, Persson 1973: Szczakiel, Mauger 1974: Mauger, Sjosten 1975: Louis, Mauger A 2-2 record. Nielsen also has a better record than Mauger in World Pairs run-offs. So it looks like Hans Nielsen was better under pressure than Ivan Mauger. Of course, Erik's record in run-offs is very good: 1985: Gundersen, Nielsen, Ermolenko 1987: Gundersen, Ermolneko 1988: Gundersen, Nielsen A 4-0 record. But Nielsen normally outperformed Gundersen in the World Pairs and when it came to the Danes selecting a man to contest a run-off, it was Nielsen selected and not Gundersen. And Gundersen did crack under pressure sometimes. Remember the run-off for first place in the 1984 BLRC, when Gundersen shot through the tapes. All the best Rob

Steve, were you the chap I was chatting to, on the train in Poland last year? If so, do you still need the details from that MRC qual round at Oxford? If so, which year was it? All the best Rob

Salty, I don't quite buy that since in Amsterdam in 1987, Erik dropped four points early on Day Two, but plugged away and eventually finished second, beating Ermolenko in a run-off. Interestingly, the two times the Danes needed a rider to win a run-off in the World Pairs (for the 1984 silver medal and the 1986 gold medal), Hans was chosen before Erik on both ocassions and duly delivered each time. All the best Rob

MM, are those the odds for the first GP or for the whole series? If they are for the whole series, it's very poor odds on Zetterstorm, Harris and Woffinden who should be around 1000/1. All the best Rob

Rami, there's a world of difference between Hans Nielsen and Leigh Adams, though. Leigh doesn't want to take the risks in the Grand Prix, whereas Hans was capable of being quite ruthless when it came to gaining even one extra point in a World Final. Hans Nielsen was a much harder rider than Leigh Adams. And Hans was very consistent at world level, while Leigh has always been very up-and-down on the world stage. Erik wouldn't have made it easy for Hans, but even one bad round out of 8 would have been too many. And Erik did have the odd blip, the 1986 World Final being the most noticeable. Looking at the 1984 to 1989 World Finals and Erik and Hans won 3 each. However, in those finals, Hans scored 13 points more than Erik - and remember, in the GP series, EVERY point counts. It shows even if Erik won half of the rounds in a GP series, he'd still struggle to win it overall against a rider who finished first or second every time. The GP series rewards consistency - look at 2008 when Nicki Pedersen was a fairly easy winner, despite winning just one round. Crump & Gollob both won more rounds, but couldn't match Nicki's consistency. All the best Rob

Jacques, however more likely is that he'll finish 13th or 14th in 2010, and then be seeded in again into the 2011 series and this thread will be repeated once more. Can I suggest the thread is retitled "Wildcards - Groundhog Day" as we've been here at least once before All the best Rob

Is Cardiff the best Grand Prix? Good atmosphere, good craic in the pub beforehand, but the track veers from totally awful to just about adequate. All the best Rob