lucifer sam

Well not JUST the Speedway Star rankings. But it's a useful guide, just as the Stenners books were. Interestingly Jim Stenner had Vic Duggan as No. 1 for 1946 (or rather, from around April 1946 to March 1947) for his Aussie form before he came back over to the UK. Yes 1956 onwards is going to be Fundin dominated... All the best Rob

Norbold - OK, I bow to your superior knowledge regarding 1935. So I think we need to let other people catch up, but so far we have: 1928 - Frank Arthur 1929 - Frank Arthur 1930 - Vic Huxley 1931 - Vic Huxley 1932 - Vic Huxley 1933 - Tom Farndon 1934 - Tom Farndon 1935 - Bluey Wilkinson 1936 - Eric Langton (ArnieG, Bobbath and Rob) or Bluey Wilkinson (Norbold) 1937 - Jack Milne 1938 - Bluey Wilkinson 1939 - Cordy Milne 1946 - Jack Parker 1947 - Vic Duggan 1948 - Vic Duggan 1949 - Jack Parker 1950 - Graham Warren 1951 - Jack Young (Rob / Norbold) or Aub Lawson (Bobbath) 1952 - Jack Young 1953 - Jack Young 1954 - Ronnie Moore 1955 - Ronnie Moore Any disagreements with any of the above? A lot of Australian winners in the above list. We'll plough on with 1956 onwards after every has had a couple of days to discuss the above!! (which will allow allow me to dig out the Speedway Star rankings of the late 50s / early 60s, an idea of a BSF forum member, our very own speedyguy ) EDIT: 1928 now added after suggestion by Norbold. I think that's as far back as we can go, unless anyone has knowledgle of the 1923-1927 seasons in Australia. All the best Rob

Not Max Grosskreutz? He outscored Wilkinson by 20 points in the 1935 England v Australia tests, and then proved nigh-on unbeatable in the 1935/1936 Australia v England test matches. Interestingly, Bluey Wilkinson's 15-point maximum in the 1936 World Final was onboard a bike borrowed from Grosskreutz, who was flying in the opening part of the 1936 season, but was then injured and missed the World Championship qualifying rounds. As for 1929-1934, I really don't know much about these years. All the best Rob

Don't worry I will. Of course, you need a bit of luck to win a GP series as you do the World Final. I'm sure that one year Ove Fundin would have got all the bad luck, and be the victim of some awful refereeing decisions, and Craven would pip him over the series, just as Loram did to Rickardsson in 2000 (and of course, Craven was a better rider than Loram and would have won some rounds). Now off to find an appropriate year... In the meantime, we'd better let everyone else catch up, as we seem to have sprinted forward and covered all the years to 1955. And it also occurs to me that we've diddled poor Tom Farndon out of his moment of glory. The Star-sponsored event started in 1929, so does that mean we should cover 1929 to 1935 as well? I have very little idea regarding these years, apart from I know Vic Huxley was the first speedway superstar and then Farndon became THE rider to beat sometime around 1933 and 1934, up to his tragic death which would have deprived him of the 1935 series. I also know Max Grosskreutz had a good 1935 season. All the best Rob

Norbold, of course there's also the fact we've happily given Graham Warren the 1950 GP series when he may have not been in it And when we get to 1992... we're probably going to not go for Havvy anyway (IMO it's Jonsson's year), but would the man who won the 1992 World Final have been in the 1992 GP series?? 1936 is a headache - there's 4 very worthy contenders (Langton, Wilkinson, Charles and Van Praag) but none of them stands out from the other three. Anyway, let's assume that Jack Young would have been in the 1951 series - I think if he had been, then he'd have won it? Unless, anyway disagrees, Young also gets 1952 & 1953 (by some margin as well - he may have won the 1952 series with a couple of rounds to spare ). 1954 & 1955 - Ronnie Moore both years? Jack Young wasn't quite the force he was, Craven won the 1955 World Final as a rank outsider and Fundin & Briggs were still on the updward curve. On the other hand, a young Moore was at very the top of his game. But what about Brian Crutcher? (The romantic in me wants Peter Craven as the 1960 World Champion - I'm gathering evidence for that for when we get there ) All the best Rob

Norbold, Jack Young was the 11th best in the world in 1950 according to speedway's leading journalist at that time, Jim Stenner. And it was more common for top riders to be in the second division around this time - Ken Le Breton was another example. Didn't a THIRD division rider qualify for the World Final at one point? Even if Young had missed out in the 1950 GP challenge, I reckon they would have given him a seeded slot for 1951. Hmmm, Frank Charles and Lionel Van Praag were also up there in 1936, weren't they? Very tricky one to call, especially as neither Langton nor Wilkinson performed well in the 1936 England v Australia test match series, which were huge meetings back in those days and a good measure of form at the very top level. As for Freddie Williams, yes it's harsh, but I don't think he'd have won a GP series. I'm more concerned that we still leave Britain's finest, Peter Craven, with a World title somewhere amongst the Fundin dominated years when we get there. All the best Rob

Norbold, surely Jack Young won have qualified through the 1950 GP challenge. 1951 is a debateable one. I don't think Biggs would have had the consistency over a series, so Young's main contenders would have been Split Waterman and maybe Aub Lawson. 1952 & 1953 would have been Jack Young by some margin. Agree? As for 1936, we'll wait for further contributors to the debate. I recognise Wilkinson was a serious class act (his World Final record is almost perfect), but Langton seemed to keep it going right through 1936. Any test averages, etc, from this season? Trust 1936 to prove debatable - if we still can't agree, it may come down to a controversial run-off. All the best Rob

OK, we need a few more people's opinions on 1936. Would it have been Eric Langton or Bluey Wilkinson? My argument for Langton is that, with the bonus points system, there was a kind of GP series already taking place, albeit one with a large bias to the final round at Wembley. Langton went into Wembley with 13 bonus points, Wilkinson had 10 - which means Langton would have outscored Wilkinson heavily in the qualifiers. So had there been a full-blown 11-round GP series in 1936, I think Langton would have been the rider with the consistency to take it. And we have gone along with the top bonus point scorer being the champion in 1937, 1938 & 1939. Norbold, what's the argument for Wilkinson? We'll then see what other people think. All the best Rob

Ok, so we have: 1936 - Eric Langton 1937 - Jack Milne 1938 - Bluey Wilkinson 1939 - Cordy Milne 1946 - Jack Parker 1947 - Vic Duggan 1948 - Vic Duggan 1949 - Jack Parker 1950 - Graham Warren Anyone disagree with the above? We now enter the Jack Young era - how many GP titles would have he won? Jim Stenner has him down as the best rider in the world in 1951, 1952 & 1953, would he have held on in 1954 & 1955, or would the new young brigade, headed by Ronnie Moore have caught him up at the some point? All the best Rob

Well 1947 and 1948 are definitely Vic Duggan. What about 1946 though? Jack Parker? And what about 1939 - surely any GP series would have been eight elevenths through before the interruption of Mr. A. Hitler and therefore a result could have been called? All the best Rob

Yes, I would go along with Jack Parker, who had a fabulous season in 1949. Stenner's World Rankings were: 1. Jack Parker 2. Aub Lawson 3. Tommy Price 4. Vic Duggan 5. Wilbur Lamoreux 6. Graham Warren A word for Vic Duggan would won have definitely won a GP series in 1947 or 1948. Duggan crashed out halfway through the 1949 season, then his brother was killed during the 1949-1950 winter and he was never the same again. 1950 = Graham Warren. Agree or diasgree? All the best Rob

So the burning issue is: will Adrian Rymel ride or not? All the best Rob

Norbold, how long was Bluey Wilkinson out injured in 1937? He missed the World Final that year through injury. Surely he would've struggled to finish second in the GP series had he had to miss more than one round? I agree with Jack Milne being 1937 GP champion though - it was definitely "his" year. Top bonus point scorer, 15-point max at Wembley, top of the averages - who could have stopped him? All the best Rob

Who's gonna decide 1937 then?? All the best Rob

So who would have won an 11-round GP series each year from 1936 to 1994? Let's start in 1936. Would it have been Bluey Wilkinson? After all, he was regarded as the best rider in the world. But maybe he wouldn't have won. He was injured at one stage of the season, which is why his bonus points contribution to the World Final was only 10. Eric Langton was the most consistent rider in the qualifiers. Over a GP series without the bias to the Wembley round (Van Praag's home track), it's likely Langton would have triumphed. So that's 1936 dusted. Anybody want to do 1937? All the best Rob

Here Rune Holta's thoughts (in Polish, unfortunately ): http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/2009/08/...zestaje-juz-na/ All the best Rob

Norbold, but a GP system was used in 1936, 1937 & 1938, albeit one with a bias towards the final round at Wembley. All the best Rob

I don't see what people are moaning about. The meeting is cheaper than it was in Zielona Gora in 2008 - which I saw the day after the Polish GP. A poor track at Zielona Gora came close to ruining the meeting, but with only three GP places up for grabs, it still came to a pretty exciting climax. I think the meeting at Brandon will be a cracker. I will certainly be there. The only regret I have is that means I can't attend the Mark Lemon testimonial, but Lemo can blame the organisers of his meeting for shifting the date forward two days as I had the original Sept 20 date down in my diary. All the best Rob

Ermolenko's league form that year was excellent, but could he have beaten Nielsen over a 11-round GP series? - I very much doubt it. Nielsen was a fairly easy winner of the first GP series in 1995, despite being past his prime of 1983-1991. The GP series is all about consistency and Nielsen is the probably most consistent rider of all-time. Ivan Mauger is of the opinion that had a GP series been introduced in 1990 rather than in 1995, then Nielsen would have won at least 7 World titles. I can't disagree with that. All the best Rob

It tends to be kept quiet, but it's quite low. I think the winner of each round receives around USD 10,000, which may not sound that bad, but actually is less than the average rider spends on each round in getting their crew and bikes over there, etc. All the riders lose out on the GP series in terms of prize money vs expenses, although of course the top boys make up for it in terms of sponsorship, which is why a have / have not culture has grown into the GPs. Apart from the top 5 in the world, the rest are left out of pocket by the GP series. I'm sure Humphrey or someone else will have more accurate figures on the prize money for GPs. All the best Rob

No, why bother when there's Cardiff? All the best Rob

Well, next season we'll see if it was Olsen responsible for the ultra-slick tracks for GP rounds. Meanwhile, I can see riders opting out of the GP series if it is expanded to 15 rounds but they are still paid a pittance to compete in the competition. If the GP series is such a roaring success, then the riders should get a fair slice of the cake. Instead we currently have riders trying to make up for their GP shortfall, by demanding high money from their Polish, Swedish and British clubs. Money that the clubs can no longer afford to pay out. The GP needs to stand on its own feet, instead of sponging off domestic clubs. All the best Rob

It was far harder to win a one-off World title. One slip, just one dropped point could mean that was it for another 12 months. In contrast, over a GP series, a rider can drop a lot of points and still be World Champ. I miss the sheer drama of the one-off World Final. All the best Rob

Snyper, it's obviously Ryan Fisher. All the best Rob

Steven, that's honest of you - I did notice how the ref called it wrong but with the three of you passing and repassing on each bend, it was difficult to keep track. The most important thing is that you're all OK - they did announce on Saturday evening before the end of the NL meeting that all three riders plus Adam Portwood's mum were all going to be OK. All the best Rob