lucifer sam

Parsloes, for once we are in complete agreement. Woffinden is 100% British. In fact, some would say he's more British than Mark Loram. All the best Rob

Chris, I thought Nicholls had a poor record (qualified 3 times, seeded 5 times) but it's nothing on Harris. Nothing against the bloke, but he shouldn't be in the series next year. This year he finished 14th out of 15. It seems ridiculous that riders of the quality of Lindback and Ward are not in the series, and yet Harris is. EDIT: And Chris, there's no such thing as a permanent wildcard. He's either a seeded rider or a nominated rider. All the best Rob

So, in other words, yet another sickie from Richardson. At least the excuse was novel this time - not like "the van broke down" for the 2007 ELRC. What was the excuse for this year's ELRC? All the best Rob

Steve, well he seems to be listed as one of the four seeded riders. All the best Rob

Can we please change the title of this thread? Harris, Woffinden, Lindgren and Andersen are seeded riders - they are not wildcards. The wildcard is the 16th rider (usually from the home country) nominated for each Grand Prix. All the best Rob

All the W's - Wembley, White City, Wimbledon and West Ham. White City was demolished, Wembley was rebuilt without a speedway track and Wimbledon is still there but with unwilling landlords. What about West Ham? All the best Rob

No, it was a World Final not the Incontinental Final. All the best Rob

Humph, no I missed Katowice, I couldn't persuade my parents to do that one. I did Wembley (1981) and Bradford (1985) and then all the finals between Amsterdam (1987) and Gothenburg (1991). Apart from Wembley, my favourite World Final was Amsterdam in 1987. A much underrated final - with terrific racing on the opening night. Nielsen had clutch problems that evening, missed the start in every race and still scored 12 points. He had to pass everyone from behind, including Henny Kroeze. All the best Rob

Dekker, if flopped means getting off the floor after a horrendous fall (after being sent sprawling by Per Jonsson) and still taking it to a run-off for first place, then yes he did flop. Who was Swindon representative in 1988? And where did he finish? And who was your last World Champion - Briggo in 1966?? Remember a year later in 1989, Oxford had not only the World Champion, but the World No. 1 AND the World No. 2. At which point our "All The Rest Will be Feeling Blue When Hans And Wiggy Finish 1 & 2" banner was produced and displayed proudly as Wiggy beat Jeremy Doncaster in the run-off for second place. It even got mentioned in following week's Speedway Star. I guess success like that is difficult for a Swindon fan to relate to. All the best Rob

Well, I won't be going to any of them. Went to the 1988 World Final and the whole thing was shambolic. We ended up viewing the meeting whilst stood in a puddle because there was nowhere else to stand. All the best Rob

I was definitely not a fan of Kenny Carter (I was firmly in the Penhall camp), but I still couldn't put this book down once I started reading it. It's compulsive reading - I would recommend it. Buy it while you still can. All the best Rob

Because we went off-topic very early on. All the best Rob

Interesting. So there is much more of a correlation between averages and champions from 1965 onwards. Why is that? Is that because the likes of Mauger (who did the double 4 times) and Nielsen (3 times) etc were that much more dominant of was it because the post-war years were that much more competitive? Or was it becuase Wembley produced a big home track advantage, since Jack Parker in 1947 aside, the lowest postioned riders in the averages who triumphed were the Wembley riders. All the best Rob

Salty, whoops, that'll teach me not to read the whole thread. All the best Rob

Salty - Iris was asking for riders who had done the World Championship / top of BL averages double. None of the above did that double. And it was PC who topped the 1980 averages - Nielsen missed out by a fraction (less than 0.01). But Nielsen then topped the averages from 1984 to 1990 inclusive, therefore surpassing Mauger's previous BL record, who topped the averages for 5 sucessvie seasons (plus an extra season in 1975). Prior to 1965, I'm sure Jack Young, Ronnie Moore and Ove Fundin did the double. How many riders did the following treble - World Champion / BLRC winner / top of BL averages. Briggs did in 1966, and Nielsen in 1986 & 1987. Any others? All the best Rob

Since the formation of the British League, it's something like: 1966 - Barry Briggs 1968 - Ivan Mauger 1969 - Ivan Mauger 1970 - Ivan Mauger 1972 - Ivan Mauger 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1993 - Sam Ermolenko 1996 - Billy Hamill 1998 - Tony Rickardsson 2002 - Tony Rickardsson 2004 - Jason Crump 2006 - Jason Crump All the best Rob

Iris - nice try (and I realise you're being somewhat facetious) but no. Erik Gundersen never once topped the BL averages. I'm someone who considers British racing as the bread & butter of my interest in the sport, so he can't be better than a rider who topped the BL averages a record seven times in succession (1984-1990). All the best Rob

With league averages of 11.83 in 1986 and 11.73 in 1987, he was good everywhere. And he's held the Oxford track record since June 1985 - the last person apart from Hans to hold it was Marvyn Cox, who held the track record for a grand total of 2 days before Hans got it back. The last time he broke it was 1988, on a very wet and very grippy track. Four laps at full pelt without putting a foot down - Hans beat second placed Knudsen by half a lap. All the best Rob

Iris - that shows you're relying on third hand information, rather than first-hand eye witness evidence. Because Hans was actually more vulnerable around Oxford than away tracks. In the season he set his 11.83 league average, all his points were dropped at home. He had a 12.00 away average. There were a few away tracks where Nielsen dropped a point once in a blue moon - and Cradley was one of them. But yes, Gundersen was a much better rider than Gollob, although I did see a few ocassions where Erik became completely unmotivated when things started to go wrong. Gundersen did have bad meetings, and sometimes at world level. Anyway, I still maintain that no-one could have matched Hans Nielsen over an 8-round GP series between 1985 and 1989 (his prime years). We'll see if Tony Mac and John Berry agree. All the best Rob

Erik's most extreme performances at Oxford came in two weeks in 1984. One week he came and beat Hans 2-0 in the Golden Helmet, breaking the track record into the bargain, the next week he came in a league match and scored a frankly rubbish 2 from 5 rides, including a couple of defeats to Hans, also tasting defeat to the likes of Mel Taylor and Jens Rasmussen. Erik was a man for the big occasion and was a great rider. However, Hans was the one with the consistency (sorry that word again). And Hans could also pull off a big win when it mattered - look at Heat 20 of the 1986 World Final or the run-off for first place in the 1986 World Pairs. And plenty of wins over Erik in last heat deciders at Dudley Wood, where Hans was supreme, much to the disgust of the Cradley fans. Looking at the GP series and you've got Gollob. Here's a man for the big ocassion - twice in three years he's pulled it out of the fire for the Poles in the World Cup in the final race, plus he's won the Polish GP in the cauldron of Bydgoszcz countless times. And yet he hasn't been become World Champion, because he's never been able to match the consistency of Crump, Rickardson or Pedersen across a whole series. The key to the GP series is consistency. It's not the man who wins the most GPs who wins the series, it's the rider who consistently piles up the points in each Grand Prix. All the best Rob

Arnie, I'm considering doing just that. All the best Rob

Salty, don't get me wrong, I think Erik was a great rider. That's why I made sure I gave him at least one GP championship, some people didn't even give him that, but I think that's inconceviable. It's just I saw Hans Nielsen a lot - and he had a bad meeting about once every five years. At his prime, I believe he was the most consistent rider ever seen. From 1985 to 1989, Nielsen in a GP series would have been a very, very hard man to beat over 8 rounds - even for a great rider such as Gundersen. 1982 has to be Penhall or Carter - the question is which one. 1983 is maybe the hardest year to predict of all. There's no outstanding candidate, but arould 6 or 7 riders who could have done it. All the best Rob

Salty, apart from maybe 1984, I can't see how Erik would have triumphed in any other year. I don't think Hans would have missed a final of a GP round between 1985 and 1989. Erik may have won more rounds than Hans some years, but it would have been very difficult for Erik to deal with Hans over the 8-round series that Backtrack stipulated. Erik was a great rider but was not consistent - look at the 1986 World Final (7 points), the 1987 BLRC (4 points) or the 1988 World Paris (in which a paid max from Hans carried a hugely up-and-down performance from Erik) as examples to Erik's inconsistency. Remember in the GP series every point counts - in the World Finals between 1984 and 1989, Erik and Hans won three each, but Hans scored 13 points more than Erik from these finals. I believe there would have been years when Erik would have won 3 or 4 rounds, but still missed out due to Hans's sheer consistency. All the best Rob

Yet it is. But I can't help feeling that they've done Ivan Mauger something of a disservice. Mauger was the dominant rider in world speedway up until around 1975, and I can't see him not winning another championship after either 1971 or 1972, whatever the format of the championship. All the best Rob

Did he? He was born in Britain, his dad is British and his mum is British. So in what way did he "choose" to be British?? He IS British. All the best Rob