lucifer sam

It wasn't an excuse, I just had a hunch going into that final that Hans wasn't going to win it and I was right. And I hardly need to make excuses for a four-time World Champion. All the best Rob Sidney, Your figures are out. We once researched into this: http://www.speedway-...pic=38689&st=15 Top league averages were: 1. Nielsen 11.83 (1986) 2. Nielsen 11.73 (1987) 3. Fundin 11.60 (1958) 4. Michanek 11.55 (1973) 5. Duggan 11.54 (1947) 6. Mauger 11.53 (1969) It turns out that Mauger's 1969 average was incorreclty reported, as two tape exclusions were not counted. His proper league average for that year is 11.53 - still a superb figure. All the best Rob

Falcace, I never expected Nielsen to win that final. He had been very good at Bradford in the past, but that all changed after Erik's accident. Hans started to have some very mediocre performances for Oxford at Bradford, even failing to hit double figures one or twice, which was almost unheard of. Hans lost some of his edge over Erik's accident (although he was still good enough to finish a point ahead of anyone else in the 1990 British League averages), in particular at Odsal. But he was still the best rider in the world for most of the time between 1990-1996, but not the force of 1985-1989. As for Shawn Moran, it was a farcical situation, especially as he had been completely open at the Overseas Final as to what he'd been taking for his cold. The FIM should have either stopped him from riding that day, or excluded him from the championship shortly afterwards - to leave it until after the final was just crazy. I thought he was going to win it, as he just seemed to get better and better as the night progressed. All the best Rob

Mauger was not far behind Michanek in domestic form in 1973 ahd way ahead of him in international form. It's difficult to look beyond Mauger between 1968 and 1975, only Olsen could have gone the distance and maybe have won one (maybe in 1972?). Collins and Olsen would have then taken over between 1976 and 1978, while Lee would be my favourite for 1979. All the best Rob

I would like to see a slightly different qualitying system to the GP series with more different riders each year (personally I think only the top 6 should automatically qualify for the following year). BUT I can't think of one single year from 1995 to 2011 where there has been a rider outside of the series who could have won a 6 to 11 round series that year. White Knight, could you enlighten me to the year and the rider where this has happened? On the other hand, it happened a lot under the old one-off World Final. Quite often one of the top stars was missing by the time we reached the World Final - mainly through either injury or bad luck. Examples over just a short period of time (1976-1984): * Ole Olsen and Anders Michanek (1976) * Peter Collins (1978) * Ivan Mauger (the reigning World Champion) and Ole Olsen (1980) * Erik Gundersen, Michael Lee and Bobby Schwartz (maximums in BOTH the WTC and World Pairs) (1982) * Tommy Kundsen (1983) * Michael Lee (suspended) and Dennis Sigalos (1984) All these riders might have won in those years have they reached the final. Don't get me wrong, I love the old World Final, it was so very dramatic. But far more many top riders did not contest the World Final compared to the GP series which DOES feature the cream competing against each other with almost no exceptions. All the best Rob

Stop it All the best Rob

Surely each system has its good and bad points. Yes, I miss the old World Final for its sheer drama, but it isnt coming back any time soon. The current system means we get Cardiff once a year rather than every six or seven years. Cardiff is no great shakes in terms of racing, but in terms of the ocassion, it's the highlight of the British season. Under a Grand Prix, the best rider is probably more likely to end the year as World Champion, but it's still not guaranteed. And the one-off World Finals always produced a worthy winner, even if it wasn't necessarily the best rider that year (but rather the best rider that day). And as Iris has pointed, it certainly was NOT the case that EVERY rider had the chance to become World Champion under the old system. So its swings and roundabouts - both system have their merits, However, they do seem to be some who take the opportunity to belittle the GP series at every single opportunity and it gets a little boring. All the best Rob

In other words, you're losing the argument to Iris, so you'd like to stop All the best Rob

The years active is wrong here in many cases. Hans Nielsen was riding in Denmark in 1976, the year before he came over to England in 1977. Likewise Erik Gundersen (who is just a little bit older than Nielsen) was also riding in Denmark for at least one season (if not more) in Denmark, before he came over to ride for Cradley in 1979. Even allowing for this, the number of years is wrong. Nielsen 1977-1999 is 23 years not 22. Likewise Gundersen 1979-1989 is 11 years not 10. Just a couple of examples. I imagine the years for just about every rider is inaccurate here. The old World Finals were great, but why do people pick apart the GP series just for the sake of it? All the best Rob

Oxford V Mildenhall (NL) 17 April 1980 1: Sully 2: Grahame (exc), Baldwin (ret) 3: Ackroyd 4: Fletcher 5: Ackroyd 6: Warne 7: Hack 8: Grahame 9: Ackroyd 10: Sully 11: Grahame (exc) 12: Ackroyd 13: Hack Oxford V Berwick (NL) 29 May 1980 1: Jones 2: Grant 3: Ackroyd (fell) 4: Crockett (fell) 5: Jones 6: Close (exc) 7: Crockett 8: Handley (fell) 9: Grant 10: McDermott (ret) 11: Brown 12: Caroline (No. 8 taking R/R ride) 13: Hack Oxford V Glasgow (NL) 26 June 1980 1: Passey 2: Bowen (FX), Palmer (fell - took no further part in meeting) 3: Warren 4: Campbell 5: McKinna 6: Campbell 7: Crockett 8: Crockett (res for Passey) 9: Campbell (ret) 10: Warren 11: Bowen 12: Reid 13: Warren Oxford V Miton Keynes (NL) 10 July 1980 1: Clifton 2: Davis (ret) 3: Harkins 4: Fletcher 5: Clifton 6: Crockett 7: Fletcher 8: Davis (ret) 9: Davis (res for Allaway), Allaway (tapes - taking R/R ride for Plant) 10: Harkins (ret) 11: Clifton 12: Payne (taking R/R ride) 13: Allaway Oxford V Milton Keynes (CH) 26 March 1981 1: Fletcher (FX) 2: Handley 3: Ackroyd (ret) 4: Harrison (fell) 5: Maclean 6: Perks (ret) 7: Grahame (taken out of race, but came back in after T/S Ackroyd excluded), Ackroyd (two minutes) 8: Allaway (ret) 9: Payne 10: Fletcher (ret), Perks (two minutes) 11: Alderton (res for Allaway) 12: Maclean 13: Harrison (ret) Oxford V Weymouth (CH) 9 April 1981 1: Fletcher 2: Grahame 3: Maclean 4: Grahame 5: Maclean 6: Young 7: Harrison (exc) 8: Dekok 9: Tulloch 10: Shakespeare 11: Handley 12: Shakespeare 13: Ackroyd Oxford V Milton Keynes (NL) 14 May 1981 1: Allaway 2: Payne 3: Hibbs (fell) 4: Alderton 5: Price 6: Fletcher 7: Hibbs 8: Fletcher 9: Payne 10: Hibbs 11: Allaway 12: Alderton (res for Hibbs) 13: Baldwin Oxford V Weymouth (NL) 27 August 1981 1: Grahame 2: Handley (FX), Tulloch (FX - took no further part in meeting) 3: Evitts (ret) 4: Crockett 5: Fletcher 6: Crockett (two minutes - not replaced as fellow reserve Tulloch injured) 7: Price 8: Grahame (FX) 9: Fletcher 10: Shakespeare 11: Handley 12: Evitts (ret) 13: Fletcher I am also looking for the heat results/times of the abandoned Oxford V Mildenhall KO Cup for 27 May 1982 - never published in the Speedway Star. Oxford: Graham Drury 4 (2) Brian Woodward R/R Colin Ackroyd 2+1 (1) Mick Fletcher 0 (2) Ashley Pullen 6 (2) Bill Barrett 5+1 (2) Simon Cross 6 (2) Mick Handley (no. 8) 0 (1) Mildenhall Richard Knight 3+1 (2) Mick Bates 3+1 (2) Robert Henry 3 (2) Derek Harrison 2 (1) Carl Baldwin 1+ 1(1) Ray Bales 1 (2) Andy Warne 0 (2) 1: Drury, Knight, Bates, Handley (R/R), 64.0 (3-3) 2: Cross, Barrett, Bales, Warne, 66.2 (8-4) 3: Pullen, Harrison, Baldwin, Fletcher, 66.0 (11-7) 4: Barrett, Ackroyd, Henry, Warne, 68.6 (16-8) 5: Pullen, Bates, Knight, Fletcher, 65.2 (19-11) 6: Cross (R/R), Henry, Drury, Bales, 64.8 (23-13)

Oxford V Scunthorpe (NL) 5 May 1977 (Match abandoned) 1: Whiting 2: White (fell) 3: Sheldrick 4: Sizmore 5: Whiting 6: Watkin 7: Sizmore Oxford V Mildenhall (KO Cup) 10 August 1978 1. Hack (FX), Bates (FX) 2. Moore (ret) 3. Askew 4. Spink 5. Bates 6. Knight 7. Henry 8. Spink 9: Lamb 10: Bales 11: Henry (who was R/R in this race) 12. Bales 13. Spink (who was R/R in this race) Oxford V Nottingham (CH) 5 April 1979 1: Featherby 2: McNeil 3: Hughes 4: Meredith 5: Featherby (Exc) 6. Share 7. McDonald (Exc) 8. Barker 9. Perks (ret) 10. Hughes 11. Rumsey (ret), Featherby (ret) 12. McDonald 13. McNeil (reserve for Hughes) Oxford V Berwick (KO CUP) 5 July 1979 1:McDermott (fell) 2: Wright 3: Askew 4. Close 5: Askew 6. Hack (fell) 7. Barker (FX) 8. Hack 9: Wright 10: Hack 11: Handley 12: Close 13: Askew (R/R for Lamb) Oxford V Workington (NL) 23 August 1979 1: Havelock 2: Barker (fell) 3: Emerson (ret - took no further part in meeting) 4. Blaynee 5. Askew 6: Collins 7: Emerson (non-starter) 8. Blaynee 9: Collins 10: Margarsson 11. Haley 12: Blaynee (replaced Hindle), Hindle (tapes) 13. Margarsson Oxford V Berwick (NL) 23 August 1979 1: Wright 2: Grant (fell - took no further part in meeting) 3: Fullerton 4: Kynman (res for Grant) 5: Wright (FX) 6: Handley 7: Close 8: Chapman 9: Askew (FX) 10: Fullerton 11: Jones, Chapman (MX - replaced by Barker won who race) 12: Fullerton 13: Jones Oxford V Milton Keynes V Rye House (3TT) 18 October 1979 1: Hubbard 2: Tarrant 3: Holloway (fell) 4: Askew 5: McNeil 6: Humphreys 7: Mullarkey (fell), Tarrant (MX - replaced by Kent) 8: McNeil 9: Handley 10: Pullen 11: Passey (res for Humphreys) 12: McNeil 13: Kent (res for Tarrant) 14: Pullen 15: McNeil 16: Fiala (Exc) 17: Kent (res for Tarrant) 18: MacLean

The results of the 1962 and 1963 British Championships are officially recognised. They didn't use to be, but after a campaign they were added around 10 years ago, with Peter Craven the winner of both. Both took place over three "semi-finals" - a mini GP series if you like. All the best Rob

Steve, leave these with me. Sorry for not getting back to these previously. All the best Rob

Parsloes is the last person I'd expect to be ageist, given his close links with perhaps the most entertaining rider to ever grace the third tier, Buzz Burrows. Buzz was great value, but was very old for a third tier rider. It makes his take on Hancock in the GPs all the more perplexing. If Greg is good enough, then he's young enough. All the best Rob

Why? Long live King Hancock All the best Rob

Stop it Post-war, there were a lot of older riders about. For starters, I believe Vic Duggan made his World Final debut (indeed only appearance) in 1950 at the age of 39. Anyone older than him? All the best Rob

The Loaders Annuals are perhaps the best yearbook ever published. It seems strange that the 1993 Annual would not brought over to Europe; it must have destroyed sales. Would love to get hold of a copy. All the best Rob

Sorry, yes it was a smashed pelvis rather than thigh. My point was that it was a remarkable comeback to recover from that and climb back to World No. 8. I'm certain Todd Wiltshire would have been a World Champion but for his accident. All the best Rob

Although I never saw him ride, older Oxford fans have told me plenty of times just how good Arne Pander was. But for that fractured skull in 1960, who knows what he could have achieved. Speedway is a sport with plenty of "what if's". There are so many hard luck stories of might-be world champions. A classic one of recent times is Todd Wiltshire, who was nailed on to become a World Champion but for a smashed thigh. Even then he came back after a 5-year absense and rose back to World No. 8. Anyway, back to the subject of the thread, and some lower league rivalries that sometimes boiled over: 1. Jason Bunyan and Justin Elkins 2. Chris Mills and Tony Dart All the best Rob

Sidney, but doesn't that show the strength of character of Nielsen, that he did dare to cross Olsen, and became a World Champion despite Ole Olsen. All the best Rob

When a Swindon fan calls an Oxford rider bloody awesome, he must be. All the best Rob

We looked at this a while ago. After some investigation, it turned out that two tape touching exclusions hadn't been counted in Mauger's 1969 figures. The best top flight league averages were: 1. Nielsen 11.83 (1986) 2. Nielsen 11.73 (1987) 3. Fundin 11.60 (1958) 4. Michanek 11.55 (1973) 5. Duggan 11.54 (1947) 6. Mauger 11.53 (1969) All the best Rob

It swapped after Hans won his first individual title in 1986. Erik had the psychological advantage until then, but then Hans won three of the last four titles before Erik's injury. The only time Erik got the better of Hans once Hans was World Champion was the 1988 World Final - otherwise it was all Hans from 1986 onwards. But for Olsen's interference in helping out Erik despite being the Danish team manager (conflict of interests, or what?), I think Hans would have won his first World title sooner (especially if you consider the "team orders" Olsen gave to Knudsen in 1985 to wipe Nielsen out ). Olsen wanted to stop Nielsen, because he knew he could beat his record, which of course he did. Nielsen dominated in a way that Olsen never did. All the best Rob

I can't quite see that - how can Nielsen with 22 FIM World Championship Gold Medals not be a legend? And before you say the majority of those were with Denmark, remember Nielsen often led the way in those Danish victories, starting with the 1978 WTC. In 1978, Olsen was at the top of his game, but guess who out-scored him in the 1978 WTC Final? An 18-year-old Hans Nielsen. Olsen was never the best rider of his generation (that honour went to Ivan Mauger), while Nielsen was the best of his. Gundersen matched Nielsen on the World stage, but it was Nielsen who dominated complete seasons in the way Mauger had, topping the BL averages for seasons on end. Olsen always seemed concerned that Nielsen may surpass his own achievements and indeed that is what happened. In fact, Gundersen surpassed Olsen as well in my book. I would rate the Danes: 1. Nielsen 2. Gundersen 3. Olsen 4. J.Pedersen 5. N.Pedersen. All the best Rob

Nielsen was named at reserve for the opening test, but never rode. The second test was at Oxford, with Nielsen again at reserve. The Danes already had fellow reserve Jens Rasmussen in the race, then one of the Danes went through the tapes. So the option was: Nielsen comes out or only one Dane in the race. Nielsen said he would only come out if Olsen directly asked him to, but Olsen refused. In the end, it was the Oxford management who persuaded Hans to take his place in the race. He was caught cold, and trailed behind the England pair. Rasmussen then went through the tapes (probably intended - Jens was a good friend of Hans) prompted a second race for Nielsen, and he won that one. That's how I remember it anyway, have to dig out the programme to confirm events. Oh, and Nielsen had red socks, while Olsen was wearing stockings and suspenders All the best Rob

Carter versus everyone expect Neil Evitts, the Moran brothers, Simon Wigg and Erik Gundersen. All the best Rob