lucifer sam

I didn't realise Jerzy Szczakiel was German. The ref of the '73 was Transpurger - also the ref of the '72 final (when Mauger took advantage of a rolling start or two). He was German. Szczakiel was Polish. All the best Rob

The ref (Transpurger) allowed shocking starts throughout both the 1972 and 1973 finals - he basically released the tapes as the final rider came up to them. Mauger himself used to his advantage at Wembley in 1972. I'm not sure why it suddenly becomes "the biggest stitch up in speedway history" when it's Szczakiel who gets a flier rather than Mauger. Fair play to Szczakiel who was the best rider.... on the day. The "dodgy" heats (the Poles orchestrating a win for Plech, plus the bizzare shennanings of Heat 19) did not involve Szczakiel, who earned all 13 of his points. In his fourth race, the Russian pushed Szczakiel to the back, but he fought back from fourth to second place. Szczakiel outfoxed Mauger and beat him TWICE in the same World Final. To highlight just one race where there was a dodgy start in the '72-'73 finals demonstrates you haven't watch the full coverage of these finals. If so, you'd have seen a number or riders using them to their advantage. Szczakiel beat Mauger at his own game... and deserves credit for that. From reading Mauger's autobiography, he has no axe to grind with Szczakiel. All the best Rob

It's questionable whether the Poles in 1973 were "seeded" or were "qualifiers". There was actually a qualifying criteria. Not an actual meeting, but based on results over a period. Szczakiel was fifth of the five Poles who qualified based on results. The Polish authorities weren't sure, and nearly replaced him, but in the end, stuck firm with the way they had worked out their five qualifiers... and the rest is history. Every final between 1965 and 1980 had riders from the home nation go directly to the final. The British Final was effectively a World Semi-Final in the years that Wembley held the final. All the best Rob

I don't know why you've got an obsession on races behind the Iron Curtain being so difficult. The western riders may have been intimidated to begin with, but then Mauger winning in 1970 and the Brits winning the WTC in '71 in Poland altered the situation. By the time Szczakiel won in '73, the westerners already knew they could go to Poland and win. Szczakiel would have had very little "home" advantage at Katowice (he rode for Opole), but he simply proved to the best rider on the day. Remember again he didn't beat Mauger once that day... he did it twice. Almost all the big names of the day were in the '73 final, but Szczakiel went out and beat almost all of them. He was the best rider on that particular day. All the best Rob

The Poles won the World Team Cup in the 1960s OUTSIDE of their own country... we didn't, even borrowing the likes of Briggs, Moore and Mauger. That's the point I was making. I didn't mention the seventies, just the sixties... I've had a bit of a google about and found an interesting statistic. The head-to-head between Mauger and Szczakiel between 1971 and 1973.... Mauger 7, Szczakiel 6. That's a fine record against the best rider in the world at the time. All the best Rob

So how come the Poles did much better than Great Britain in the World Cup during the 1960s - not just in Poland, but other countries too. Many the Poles were better than you give them credit for. Mid 80s at Exeter? So you're saying Colin Cook or Alan Rivett could have been World Champion? Give over. And was Katowice Szczakiel's home track??? I thought he came from Opole. Szczakiel is obviously a far better rider than a lot of people give him credit for. It's a shame so many have an arrogant attitude of "Well he never rode for a British League club, so he can't be any good." All the best Rob

Actually going by a video of the meeting. And Szczakiel was flying. Give a bit of a credit where's it due. All the best Rob

While there are huge flaws in TWK's logic, I would point out that Szczakiel's win wasn't lucky. He scored 13 points out of 15 (including a win over Mauger in Heat 8), and then beat Mauger in a run-off, even outfoxing Mauger at this own speciality, getting a flier at the start. That's not lucky. Szczakiel was the best rider on that particular day - two wins over Ivan Mauger are testament to that. All the best Rob

It was actually in last week's Star (they broke the story), and then appeared on here afterwards. So it was the forum which was old news. All the best Rob

Scunny 92 (including Ashley Birks) Somerset 91, I think you'll find. All the best Rob

HT, I see. But you made a big assumption that my views were those of the Scunthorpe promotion. If that was the case, I would have said so. The views of the Scunny promotion are those on the BSPA website / Scunthorpe website and there is nothing about team strengths on there. As for the economic climate, well the whole country is in a different situation to 2006/2007. In case you hadn't noticed, we're in the middle of a great big recession. Scunny were never the biggest payers in the first place, but there's a good argument for the whole league to tighten its belts. Dudley and Mildenhall are probably OK, but to help the likes of Scunny, Buxton, King's Lynn and Rye House, a rigid pay structure would help. After all, for Dudley to thrive, ideally they also need the other teams in the league to be thriving as well. At the end,of the day, Dudley are always going to end up as one of the strongest teams in the league, and this isn't a problem - and the amount of away supporters they take is a boost to other tracks. Dudley and their vocal and large support are a good thing for the National League. But the situation where the standalone teams can pick from the cream of those riding for the second teams needs to stop, or otherwise the second teams simply won't bother to run, because you're taking away their main purpose - to develop riders for the senior team. You have to remember that any club running two teams is currently taking a double-hit during the recession - so there needs to be good reasons to continue running two different teams. The National League membership has shrunk in recent seasons from 13 in 2003/2004 to just 8 in 2012, largely due to the disappearance of most of the second teams. The National League has always been a compromise between teams with different agendas, but currently that balance is not quite right. Good luck to all the teams running in the National League next season, but I do wonder if measures are still needed to ensure the long-term survival of what is a crucial league to British Speedway, as it is the training ground to the leagues above. And these views are my own. All the best Rob

HT, there's no doubt of the strength of the 2007 Scunthorpe Scorpions. However, they were not the biggest payers in the league, and the riders were not "poached" from other teams, as Ben Hopwood was from Oxford by a south-western team. The strength of the Scunny side merely took advantage of the low grades given to younger riders at that point. You're implying there's a big double standard here. If so, please could you name the rider who Scunthorpe pinched off another club in either 2006 or 2007. Thanks. All the best Rob

HT, for someone so knowledgement about the sport, you do talk complete rot at times. Oxford were still about in 2007, so I do know various bits from behind the scenes at that time. Scunny were not the big payers; instead it was a south-west based team. The Cheetahs closed for four weeks during the summer, and when we re-opened, we found Ben Hopwood had been poached by this south-western team, who paid him double the wages (and Oxford themselves were not paying minimum wages). Not that I have any problem with Ben; I had a chat with his dad later that season and I told him I could completely understand his and Ben's position because it was an offer they simply couldn't afford to turn down. Scunny's powerful team for 2006 and 2007 was eventually full of PL riders, but it didn't start that way. They took on Josh Auty, Tai Woffinden and Joe Haines from scratch, Andrew Tully came from the Dale Devils after that team folded, etc. I can't remember the Scorpions going around other teams and pinching their riders - correct me if I'm wrong. At one point, Allen Trump wanted to put something in the Speedway Star berating Scunny after a Bronze Helmet challenge saw Danny Betson ending up going solo in the race, but I persuaded him not to, telling him Scunny are "the good guys", having built up a very strong side, but having almost done it from scratch. As it was, we were already involved in a war of words with the south-west team (the south-west team got up to all sorts of tricks - they were "the bad guys") and we didn't need to likewise engage Scunny. Please don't try to rewrite history, I would expected more of you than that. All the best Rob

That's a much better post. 21st CH, just read your own previous post again. Whether you meant it or not, it read that the likes of Scunthorpe, Buxton and KL were there simply to service Dudley. And Ashley Birks was a totally different matter. He'd already graduated to the Scunny PL team, so it made sense for him to ride for different PL & NL tracks last season. Good luck to Max Clegg, a smashing kid with a lot of talent. Meanwhile, the gulf between team in the NL needs sorting out. Yes, this league always has been a compromise between the "second teams" and the "standalones", but there should be greater protection towards the "second teams", because there aren't enough "standalones" if the second teams plus Buxton all pulled out. The standalone clubs should not be able to go and choose from the pick of the riders developed by the second teams - there needs to be something put in place to prevent this from happening again. All the best Rob

Unbelievable arrogance. And don't try to drag Stoke into this... The purpose of the National League is to train riders for the Premier League and Elite League, not for other National League teams. No wonder British Speedway is an international backwater. We need to get our superstars of the future into the top leagues. All the best Rob

Yes, I did see it before it went EC and Villers are right - any arguments are pointless. It does show that the National League does need to get its house in order, and sort out what exactly it is about (IMO a training league), and there also needs to be better protection towards the teams that have developed their own riders. All the best Rob

Yeah right. Jealous? What of? What have you won? This is a thread about Scunthorpe Saints, so please can all the gloating Dudley fans please vacate it, before I say something I might regret at a later date. All the best Rob

Well Malcolm, I'm sure one of the teams in question wouldn't be daft enough to announce the signing on the very same day that the Saints announce their withdrawal... or would they? All the best Rob

That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? What is the purpose of the National League? For me, it is a stepping stone to bigger things. It's there to produce riders for the Premier League and Elite League. Where things go wrong is when clubs start to push up the costs to going all-out to win. The way to win the National League is by developing your own riders; not to take them from elsewhere. All the best Rob

Talk about missing the point. The National League is a training league. If each team is bringing in two new 3.00 riders each season, the points limit is about right, although I'd like to see it reduced to 36 or 38. The top riders in the NL should be moving into the PL each season, leaving the bottom five in the team plus two new youngsters for the following year. The National League is first and foremost a training ground. Any team success is just a bonus. All the best Rob

That's a rather condescending post. All the best Rob

The point being it is the final race of the night (Heat 19 in total), so the track had lost much of its bite, but it doesn't stop Ryan Douglas on a borrowed bike having a bit of a charge around the outside. All the best Rob

I saw Ryan Douglas ride in a Swindon v Oxford second half last year (although as the Oxford team manager, I would have preferred he hadn't, because thanks to him, Swindon beat us ). He came in at late notice for Swindon, I think he was on a borrowed bike, and he scored 11 points out of 12, dropping his only point whilst taking his fourth ride in 4 races. He nearly went around Brendan Johnson with a brave move in Heat 4. He looked fast, with plenty of courage, which is ideal for riding at Scunny. All the best Rob

Not long now to find out the complete team of the defending Premier League Champions. All the best Rob

FULL 2013 SCORPIONS LINE-UP TO BE ANNOUNCED TONIGHT HENDERSON INSURANCE Scunthorpe Scorpions, the defending Premier League Champions, will announce their full team for the 2013 season this evening (Sunday, November 18th). The Scorpions were going to announce one name, but are now in a position to reveal the whole septet. Promoter Rob Godfrey said: “I don’t wish to give the game away and ruin the big announcement this evening. “But I think our supporters are going to be delighted once they see our 2013 line-up, as we strive to become the first ever team to retain the Premier League trophy.” The full Scorpions team will appear on the official Scunthorpe Speedway website (www.scunthorpescorpions.co) at 9pm this evening.