Grachan

It was not an awful decision. There was no hint whatsover that Morris fell deliberately or stayed down to get the race stopped. That is the reason for that rule. Can't believe how drawn out this meeting is. And what is it with referees that make them put the red lights on if a rider makes a good start? That doesn't help. Track looks poor tonight. Even more 'gate and go' than normal. And if you try to pass, you fall off.

And what is the common factor if it happens? Jason Doyle. A rider who gives much more to a side than the points he scores, which is why so many teams are trying to get him out of the league.

Completely bizarre. Whatever happened to having a team of riders the fans could relate to? And to think that this is the club who once went an entire season using the same 7 riders in every match.

Yes. The top division should be the main speedway league and the one that clubs aspire to be in. As long as this is not the case, and we have two leagues using the same riders, the sport will continue to dwindle and lack any real credibility.

I just call them division one and two. It's much easier to follow! The stupid "copy football" names are an embarassment. Yes, doubling up and down is a big part of the problem. It was fine when there was one place in division one teams, shared between 2 riders. But then, suddenly, the whole thing went crazy in both leagues, and in no time we has two leagues using the same riders and both leagues lost credibility. I really wish this had never happened.

And there lies the problem. Teams riding in a lower league but trying to make it a top league. Surely the sport would be better if all ambitious clubs who want to sign top quality riders rode in one, larger league. Instead, once again, we get fans of lower league clubs wanting their own league to be seen as better than what should be the main league that people aspire to be in.

Believe it or not, news of what is happening in the sport of speedway is not omnipresent.

SCook shouldn't be allowed in the second division. If these teams want to have GP riders and put strong sidss together, they should be in the top league. Hopefully this won't be sanctioned.

Thanks. So it's even worse than I renember. The sport has never recovered from those atrocities. Fans disappeared and never came back. Then, in recent years, we have had repeated attempts to force the likes of Jason Doyle out of the league. So far they've been unsuccesful, but I'm sure they will manage it in the end.

Correct. The current strength of the first division is already $%^^, which is why I hardly ever watch it. And this is weaker, forcing out the riders mentioned in the post plus the likes of Troy Bachelor. A top league performed in front of some tumbleweed would be the result. Although if, as you say, this equates to a championship average of 47, then the sides would be weaker than this. If I decided to watch Swindon v King's Lynn it would mainly be to watch Robert Lambert. I'd maybe go to see Somerset to watch Jason Doyle. Here's an idea. Let's force them out of the league then. Brilliant.

Those teams are an absolute nightmare. Speedway is at its least appealing when you see a near-empty stadium, a few old people filling in programmes and very little atmosphere. That is what you would get with these sides, £10 or no £10. Speedway is dying on its feet and people suggest the way forward is to make people not want to go. Absolutely staggering. Mind you, with those sides, you would get riders like Nick Morris and Craig Cook on 10+ point averages, so some people would probably think the league was stronger. Seriously, please, stop suggesting speedway becoming like this. It scares me. Because I have grown up supporting a team, and that team is Swindon Speedway, I do retain an interest in the sport. But it needs to be a worthy standard to entice me - and, I suspect, many of the others who rarely now attend - through the gates.

The beginning of the end was the 39.95 points limit in the top flight - whenever that was. 2008?

That's because the level it is at now is too low.

If the product is good, people will pay to go.

Even without GP riders, you could have a league of reasonable strength. You are proposing a points limit of 35. It seems that your idea of what speedway should be is just a few people gathered in the countryside watching their mates having a skid round. That is fine at grass roots level, but the top league needs to improve its standard. I very rarely go to speedway these days, because, even though I like the Swindon side as I am used to those riders, the opposition never looks appealing. I want to be enthused by speedway. It infuriates me to see people saying it should be driven down to such a low level. It needs to get fans back in. It needs to get people like me back in.

I think some people would still be happy watching low quality teams so just assume everyone else will too. It is quite obvious that the weaker the leagues become, the lower the crowds get.

Why on Earth anyone thinks that the best way forward for British speedway is to make it a sport less people want to watch is beyond me. Surely the way forward is to get it out there and modernise presentation to make it a sport that people are happy to pay to watch. Speedway's real current problems began with the weakening of teams and the lowering of standards. Everyntime they do it, more fans disappear.

I just don't see how the answer to a sport that is losing appeal is to make it even less appealing. Team strengths drop and crowd levels go down with it. Surely the current level of top flight - which, in itself is pretty weak - can be manageable with a view to improving it over time. Keep dumbing down and the sport dies. Crowds started dwindling as soon as the low points limits were introduced. A 35 points limit will get crowds of about 300. And there will still be a team at the bottom who can't attract fans.

Why would you run a sport where you are hoping to attract a crowd of 750? With Championship level sides and a top average of 35 you'd be lucky to get that many there anyway. I remember Swindon in the second division, and, even now in these supposed troubled times, the crowds are a lot higher than they were then. It may make sides financially manageable, because it will basically be a hobby sport, but it isn't going to attract decent crowds. Make the product entertaining instead of having an atmosphere like a garden fete, and people will go. I just want speedway to be something that attracts me and makes me want to attend. I hope it doesn't end up at such a low level.

Wednesdays were actually Swindon's alternate race night when they raced on Saturdays, so, as you say, it will be interesting to see how crowds hold up.

I think this thread is a wind up. Look at it this way. Rider A scores 3,2,1,3,3 and averages 9.60 from 1 match. Rider B scores 3, 2,1,3,2 and 3,1,3,1,2 and averages 8.40 from 2 matches. Has rider B done better because he has won more races?

How did he know if they were on a 4-2? He never looked behind once from the start of the race until Tai went past him. Watch the race again. Then, when Tai passed him, he looked round and slowed down a bit, but never did anything to make sure Emil never finished last. Just the token "look over the shoulder", which is not team riding. Neither side did any team riding in the final.

Your post didn't say about the winner of the race, it mentioned the team that finish first. The team that finished first was Russia as there was still a GB rider who hadn't finished when Russia had all crossed the line. The winner of the race was Tai. The team that finished first was Russia. Not the same thing.

Looks much weaker.

Win from Bellego in heat 14 makes sure the Robins don't lose. Just thought I'd mention it.