Grachan

This is your idea of being 'The Voice of Reason' is it?

Please. Go away. You and all the others who suddenly seem intent on trolling every discussion about Swindon. Very frustrating.

Looks lost now. Shame as we were on a 5-1 apparently.

Harsh exclusion maybe, as it was at the start, but it was Gollob's fault.

I didn't pick them. You picked them by saying Yeates would easily get double figures. That's a minimum 8.00 average, so that's the level you put him at. That is the level of rider that scores double figures in the EL. This is what you are saying. Riders above 8 (ie similar standard to Martin Yeates): Holder Janowski Iversen Doyle Ward Riders below 8 (ie not as good as Martin Yeates) Zagar Andersen Jonsson Harris Lindgren Kildemand Correct. Yes, as I've said. The top flight was stronger then. The riders that chose to stay NL did so because they lacked ambition and opted for easy money in the lower leagues. They were never going to become top international riders because they lacked the ambition.

They would have been. Yes. regarding Yeates. Having no trouble getting double figures from 5 rides (including a heat 15) gives him an 8 point average minimum. So, yes, you are saying he's as good as them. I would agree that nowadays these would be high up in the list of British riders due mainly to this not being such a good period for British riders, but you,re basing the strength of an entire league based on a select few riders who really shouldn't have stayed there because they were too good for it. I think it shows that the standard in the top league has dropped and the standard in the second tier has become stronger.

The number of double uppers show how the PL is stronger than the old NL. In the NL days those riders would not be in the lower league. They would have moved on.

Swindon v Poole is on Monday.

You think Martin Yeates would have had no trouble scoring double figures in the EL? So you're effectively saying he would have an 8 point average. That puts him at the same level as Darcy Ward, Maciej Janowski and Niels Kristian Iversen. Martin Yeates was a good NL rider but do you really think he was as good as those 3? I certainly don't. Decent riders never stayed long in the old NL. Nick Morris, for example, would have been gone by now and be full time at Swindon. The real top riders were people like the Owens, Yeates, schofield, Jackson etc. People who spent most of their careers at the lower level. They were decent riders, but overall it was much more of a stepping stone league for the promising riders - much more than it is today.

I remember a few years bck, the Swindon track was really bad with everyone following each other round close to the air fence. It's definitely been improved since then. I remember they announced Ronnie Russell was doing something to give it more race lines and it seemed to work quite well.

I remember Swindon scored 29 against them at home!! And Phil Crump scored a maximum, so it was like a Swindon victory.

After reading the forum this week maybe you would prefer Speedway Friends.

Both riding at Leicester. http://www.swindonrobins.co/news.php?extend.2469 Must admit that, now, having seen young Darcy looking resplendent in his mighty Robins racesuit I'm actually quite excited about Monday. I didn't want to see Howarth out the side because he didn't deserve it, but it can't be denied that Rosco has done what's best for the club.

Yeah, but they also smashed anything the NL ad to offer that year, so not really a fair comparison. I could quote Cradley of 1983 as a yardstick for how strong the top flight is, but it's not a fair comparison. For every Cradley 83 there has to be a Swindon 83. I think the PL nowadays is stronger than the NL was - certainly in the 1970s when Michael Lee was in it. Back then, as soon as riders became half decent they would move up into the British League, but now they seem to stay down. Riders like Nick Morris and Craig Cook would never be riding in the lower flight then. It's even debateable if Robert Lambert would still be there.

Give him a chance! He hasn't ridden competitively for nearly a year. If he gets double figures he's done ok in this one.

Agree with you on Michael Lee, but I do think the PL today is a higher standard than the old NL. The fact he averaged over 7 for King's Lynn in the same season is more impressive.

Should be a good meeting. Just hope the commentators remember which side he's on. Not at all difficult to justify, actually.

Just think. In 100 years time, if speedway still exists (long shot, I know), we'll probably have the Bradford "Jihadists" sporting a race suit showing the black flag of islam. And anyone who objects will be called one of the PC brigade.

Whoops. My mistake.

Coventry fans would never want to replace a British rider with a foreigner. They've made this pretty clear.

Didn't happen rarely if you went to Swindon. Bob Kilby used to do it every other week. But we were 'appy.

It's not tape touching that causes constant restarts. It's the pulling them back for movement. You seem to get less tape exclusions now than you did when touching was allowed.

Best give it to someone from the National League then.

I thought you said he was a crap manager?

They still don't seem to have got to grips with how the new race format affects averages. I think the lowest last year was on about 4.9, with no other riders below 5. To be fair, though, the standard of FTR riders is higher this year, so there are a few more below 5 but none as low as 4.50. So, on paper at least, the new Czech should be the worst top 5 rider in the league.