Grachan

Interesting. Quite a lot of similarities to my 12 year old. And they both like crashes. Also interesting that so far we've had the opinions of 2 young people and both like filling in the scores, which is the thing that Philip and Kelvin think youngsters don't want to do.

I never witnessed it, but Chris Morton has admitted to deliberately knocking off Alan Grahame in an accident in which Grahame broke his leg. I'm sure he can't be the only rider to do it.

Yeah. I could have done better than just putting the number one out in heat 8 too! I think working out tactical substitutes was a very big part of the speedway experience, and it was a mistake to lose that. Certainly for me, as a kid, I loved working them out between heats and looking at ho a match could be turned round.

I don't agree that speedway needs to target itself at an older audience. The reason the speedway audience is ageing is because the kids that used to go have grown up and their places haven't been taken. I think kids will love speedway. What kids don't like is standing around for ages watching a tractor going round while some guy babbles on about raffle tickets, listening to old music and being surrounded by old folk. Speedway is exciting. The way it is currently presented isn't. When I was a kid, I remember that I loved working out rider averages and also - something that has now been lost - working out the tactics and the tactical substitutes. It was the "crashes" comment that I thought might get some people going. Absolutely. Something that bores not only kids, but adults too. This is something that needs to be sorted. Because people aren't going to pay money to be bored.

Interesting thing about that, for me, is that the one thing you are suggesting kids don't like - ie using a pen and paper - if one of the things he likes! I guess if you want to know what kids want, the best thing to do is to ask kids. I just asked him what he thought about filling scores on his phone and at first he smiled and nodded, then, after a moment, changed his mind and said "I dunno actually. Nah. I prefer it real".

My 12 year old son has liked speedway for a while. So I just asked him what he likes and doesn't like about Speedway. Here's his answers. (Sorry, but it is what he said) Likes: Crashes (that was his first answer) The races and overtakes Getting selfies with the riders Filling in the programme The horns at the Grand Prix The bike noise Dislikes: Nicki Pedersen (except when he starts fights. He likes him then) When the ref makes a rubbish decision and there are delays The tractor going round - that's boring Getting stones in the face. There you go. Sorted.

You're right. It was actually 2010. Rosco tweeted an old photo last night from then and I wasn't paying attention.

Assuming they didn't mention him one has to assume that nobody informed them.

Last night. Alun Rossiter and Chris Harris were there.

Early 1990s I think.

You obviously never saw Johnny Thunders in concert. He used to regularly refer to his audience as 'douchebags'. Ah, happy days.

Good post. I enjoyed reading that. The footage I was talking about is actually the same, original footage that ITV showed, rather than this one (By the way, it's actually me who put that link on youtube!) Looking at it, yes you make a good point about Carter leaning into Penhall So I guess you have Carter leaning in and Penhall's wheel flicking out at the same time! No wonder it's so difficult to decide who was at fault! The case I argue isn't that it was neccessarily Penhall's fault, but that there was contact between the two. How we miss Gary Newbon's pit interviews by the way!

No. They're not really speedway fans. They used to be though.

Anyone remember the Gary Havelock record? 'I'm on cloud nine.... I'm on cloud nine...'

You can just imagine Matt Ford biting his tongue and smiling to himself as they all voted.

For me Jonsson was better than anyone on his day but Ermolemko was more consistent. Per was prone to the odd poor meeting, but watching him stalking riders and passing on the run in to the chequered flag was one of the finest sights I've seen in speedway. I'd pick Per over Sam, but maybe I just saw more of him.

I read John Cook's comments in a post on this forum. I haven't seen Speedway Star. The comments attributed to him were so outrageous I even had doubts they were genuine. Very foolish.

You need to read what Jon Cook said to take it in context. He called SCB thick for being able to devise a way of working out weighted averages.

What are you watching on? If you are watching on Youtube you're not going to see it. I've no idea when Kenny Carter says there is contact, other than the "leg" thing, which is clearly wrong. As I've said, the contact with the handlebars is when Bruce's back wheel flips out. Whatever other factrs are taken into account, the thing that causes Carter to actually fall is Penhall's back wheel swiping his handlebars. You will need good quality footage to see it, though. And the one on Youtube with American commentry cuts views at exactly the moment to make you miss it. Keep watching, Rob. On the contrary. I did read the book and there is an indication in there that it was, to some degree, pre-meditated.

Well obviously not. Because Carter said he took his leg straight from under him, which he didn't. Keep watching Rob. It's the handlebar, not the front wheel.

Quite possibly, although I feel Penhall's flick out of the wheel was an unnatural movement so I still go with Penhall being the one to be excluded. This thing is, you earlier said there was no contact, which was what I was mainly disagreeing with.

Yes there is. Keep watching. You'll see it one day. It is, of course, possible that Carter ran out of track and had to move inwards, but it is when Penhall's back wheel flicks out that they touch. Admittedly it is just my opinion that it was Penhall's fault. But it is a fact that there was contact between Brucie's back wheel and Carter's handlebar and that's when Carter fell. Exactly. Great bit of controversy anyway.

Wrong. It took me about 30 years to see it, but once you've seen it you see it every time after that. What have you seen it on? I had it on betamax for many years. Couldn't see any contact. Watched it on Youtube. Couldn't see any contact. Then, one day, Steve Shovlar put DVD quality footage on here. Straight away you could see the contact. It was a real "Eureka" moment. Had I been in the bath I would have got out an run down the street. Penhall's wheel flicked out, bumped the left tip of Carter's handlebars. Carter jolted and fell off. Not seeing contact doesn't mean there wasn't contact. Once you see it you will know. There was contact. Nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise, because I saw it, and several others did too when that footage was posted.

When the wheel flicked out it caught Carter's left handlebar and Carter came off.If you watch good quality footage you can see it. It doesn't show there's no contact. You just can't see the contact from that angle.

I'm sure that whoever put the site together is grateful that the mistake was pointed out to them, but I' not sure why it would drive you nuts that it was made. It's easy to make a mistake, you know!! I never knew that information was there before. Very intersting. What surprised me was Ken McKinlay's Worl Final record.Very impressive. I knew he was a former top rider, but to me he was always the "Compo" type bloke in the bobble hat that rode Second Division for Scunthorpe.