moxey63

I agree. A wonderful spectacle is often ruined by things that happen off track.

Some of the racing from Belle Vue on Wednesday made me feel I might attend the occasional match. It was blood and thunder stuff. But it has got to give itself a good shakedown and offer a sport that is credible. The first, to make that first night experience make you want to come back if you're a new fan. Waiting 10 minutes between races, even to me, a very old fan, it would be something I'd not like doing if I returned to watch a live match. I honestly don't know how I coped for 40 years with all that dead space between the heats. Secondly, rid it of all the rules etc that'll make any new fan begin to question it further down the line.

I don't know if it's the case, but not visiting this forum as much as I used to, I recall some names that used to be quite prolific on here that no longer post. I wonder if it's through disillusionment. Have they just got out of the routine of not only attending matches but actually commenting on the sport?

The best racetrack produces one of the best races. That is why I still love speedway racing. Thank you, Chris Morton and Dave Gordon.

Totally agree. Somehow all the fun and anticipation had gone of who the opposing team would introduce as a tac to reduce arrears. The golden double was a move that failed to take us to the promised land and caused more harm than good. Why it took so long to bin it, I just don't know. It isn't just about motorbike - I mean, how many of us have ever ridden a blinking thing? I was never interested in motorbike racing. But speedway was different - you had a team, favourite riders, and a few hours at the track to marvel at team managing duties. By the way, as I am a keen collector of stats, the pain it is and how unreal it seems when the double points came about. I just don't wanna go near stats from when the GD was introduced. Just don't seem real, like a novelty thing used in a testimonial. How many fans are like me and were put off?

Turn on the Tv on a Monday for the British league and you see some of the riders you see if you tune in on a Tuesday for Swedish league or Sundays in Poland. It will take years to correct. But, come on, the whole point of supporting a team is... to support a team... of your guys. Speedway is not s erious team sport that makes you want to support a team with any effort. For me, my guess is that speedway began losing its credibility as a semi-serious product in the early 2000s when doubling up and down, and the double points gimmick came about. Since then it has got much much worse. Old fans have lost interest as they find it hard who actually rides for what team as first choice. Possible new fans just aren't coming through. This could be why crowds are so low and have demised over recent years so rapid. Has speedway kept going through time because it was assured of old fans remaining loyal more than they are today and they were joined by a crop of new fans on to the terraces to replace natural wastage as older fans drifted away for obvious reasons? But the current mess of domestic speedway right now, it could be that old fans aren't attending as much as before through frustration, disillusionment, costs... and new fans aren't being introduced by old fans.

This thread provides ammunition that even fans who defend the sport know deep down it is really deeply flawed. We love speedway, but remember the new people we are trying to tempt don't have the same desire and must be won over by a credible offering. It is no use tempting them to attend and then keep them waiting in puzzlement while the occasion and its planners get the stage right as men with rakes and fast tractors scramble about. Endless hold-ups between races is a smack in the face for someone who moans when there's a little queue at the checkout. At the moment, speedway is not fully dressed to face these potential new fans. This topic shows long-standing supporters know this.

More complicated than it needs to be. It's there for no purpose really. The watercress on a salad dish. If you really need a system to keep fans interested until the end, invent one that really counts for something in the final analysis. Same with the old aggregate bonus points that ran from 1985 until about 10 years back. They didn't really shift the final placings and would have stayed the same had the old 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw remained. Indeed, it was so silly, when a run-off for the bonus point was needed after a tie on points, they held it on the track that staged the so-called second leg instead of having a match race on both tracks, which would have been just as silly! Speedway has damaged itself over time by having this sort of thing that makes it seem like a sport brainier than it actually is, and comes away looking silly. I may be wrong, but the more recent Speedway Nations tournament had its winners as the country that finished second in the scoring, although I may be wrong... For that reason, my interest was better served elsewhere.

They've fooled you then? They mean nothing, the table practically stays the same with or without them making it complicated.

One day soon, we're going to have to go back in time... to recall what speedway was in the UK.

I wasn't aware of it back then, but the leniency of allowing more doubling up in the early 2000s might have been one reason I started having serious questions about team speedway. This and the double point tac rule was the exact period I began dreading Monday night, speedway night, arriving. The sport had gone daft. I recall Carl Stonehewer being determined to ride for Belle Vue and if I correctly recall, even paid the difference himself (it may have been to parent Workington for the difference in the loan fee) so he could turn out for both teams. Must have benefitted him financially. When the floodgates opened back then, was there a rider shortage or was it just promoters chose easy pickings and ready-made riders to keep fans happy? Another thing, the sport and its rule-makers just want to make it complicated. Take the scoring system in the league table. It is ridiculous. So many points for this, another so many for that. And yet, work out this week's table in the old-fashioned way, two points for a win etc, and there is no difference. In fact, Leicester wouldn't be as far adrift at the bottom as they now are.

Please... I just hope, just pray, the promoters aren't reading this. Oh, please say not. But it's trending on Twiter... they're currently voting on whether to adopt the complete proposal.

All true. Your post really resolves why the sport is where it is now? I think each story offers more than enough reasons why crowds have plummeted. It all sounds quirky for a time, but forty years is a long time ago and I guess people just want a genuine sport with genuine rules in 2018. We should learn from the fascinating facts you've provided and ban such things ever occurring again. It is not ok to say daft things happened 40 years ago... and so it's ok they happen now. It really shows we have learned nothing from past mistakes and will still accept anything. The modern age will not accept such shoddiness for the cash they're handing over to watch what would enable you a more professional show elsewhere in the sporting world. Bewley, Cook and Worrall, in my ideal world, would have to choose what league to race in and not have the best of both world's. Something that has to be done to save speedway and reignite it as a sport that once lay at death's door.

When speedway was massive, looking back, it was still easy to find people who didn't like it, didn't attend and thought it was a bit silly. However, unlike nowadays, they weren't ex-fans.

You've hit the nail on the head again. All the world champions that had to retire over time took so many bums off seats - Fundin, Briggs, Mauger, Collins, Penhall, Olsen, Rickardsson, Crump... The list of characters and crowd pullers is endless. Sadly, no one in current day racing holds their puling power. Woffinden and Doyle, with respect, just don't have it.

Perhaps we look at the wrong way. Attracting old fans back might be easier than attracting completely new ones. They'll already know the basics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, mikebv, but was it you who posted the Play-Offs and the fact that Belle Vue lost them to Wolves and the recently introduced Tai Woffinden all but distinguished their returning interest when they tried the new track three years ago? It proves the POs can wipe out quite a sizeable group if so. I think the rules and set up have to be foolproof to keep any new or returning fans coming back. That is why it's good that old fans who no longer attend can still post why they stopped attending. Better than just vanishing and providing no feedback as to why. It would be nice to know, apart from popping their clogs of course, why fans stop coming.

The young, as has been stated, are more interested in their own things. But, remember, folks... don't use this as an excuse, what about other age groups? Think we've fallen into a trap in which it's the young we think will save speedway. Win back the oldies and even the new oldies.

Was that when they were best remembered for house clearances?

And yet there remain some posters who believe that older fans giving reasons why they stopped attending should just go and "do one" with the other thousands of old fans that just also wanted a voice. A ready-made promoter in the offing.

Really interesting. Some promoters deserve much better support. A really good account of down to earth incidents.

They did help themselves - they stopped attending. Feel free to stand where you want.

Seems even being one of speedway's prestigious clubs doesn't keep the bulldozers at bay.

I always thought the last month or so of the season after the Play-Offs was sort of left in the air regarding fixture and there seemed nothing left to grab the fans. Also the story a few posts back of Belle Vue having to race six meetings in a two week period to meet the cut-offs was bad business as crowds dropped for those meetings as people couldn't afford it. But, eh, we had a bumper crowd in the Play-Off.

I think you have just hit the nail on the head. My views about Play-Offs have been positioned by following speedway for 40-odd years. I was always aware of riders dropping points and teams manipulating their averages. I guess I see the Play-Offs as the final straw for my belief in the sport. I just think manipulating of averages is rife as the need for every team to be successful or make the belief you'll be successful last as long as possible. I accepted the cheating when I was a fan up until the mid-2000s, but I suppose when you take all the modern stuff of riders not being at all loyal and go off with anyone who offers them a paycheque, I suppose it has just mushroomed my personal stance. Perhaps that's why the missing fans became what they are.