enotian

Exactly this. Even if Newcastle drop out and Eastbourne replaced them there aren't enough riders to go around. Demand for riders exceeds supply yet the promoters are figurative turkeys voting for Christmas by not creating a structure in which supply of riders exceeds demand. Saving themselves a couple of quid at the same time. Equally the current NDL product isn't of a sufficient standard to attract the required crowd levels and based on this years CL line ups hasn't produced any riders worthy of a CL place. So why would any team want to join it, unless they're genuinely youth speedway enthusiasts. The fact that there are only two stand alone teams backs this up. The conclusion is that the much heralded 3 tier structure doesn't work. The solution? Reduce the standard of the CL so that young riders have an opportunity and career path to progress by learning from more experienced riders. For the transition year the team structure could be defined by categories to ensure there are enough riders to go around and to provide a clear progression path for young riders. Top 4 made up of any combinations of any rider aged over 24 with a previous CL average over 3.50 (not allowed to double up in the PL), any British rider aged 24 and under with a CL average over 3.50 (allowed to double up in the PL) and any Foreign rider aged under 24. The 5th rider would be any British rider with a previous CL average under 3.50 or aged over 24. And the reserves would be any British rider aged 24 and under with no previous CL average. The categories would be reviewed each season so young riders could spend more than one year at reserve but not indefinitely, i.e. after 50 matches at the level you're no longer eligible for a reserve birth from the start of the following season regardless of average. Other young riders will progress through the categories based on performance. The key point is to provide a career path so each young rider has goals to progress while creating new opportunities for the next generation of young riders. Based on 2021 averages and ages Eastbourne could have tracked a team like Newman, Brennan, Kemp, Gilkes, Knight, Ablitt and Foord. Importantly it would be 2nd tier speedway with minimised doubling up so both the PL and CL could operate on their preferred race night with some co-ordination. There would be enough riders to support a 14 team CL without having rider supply exceeding demand. The barriers would be the top 2 or 3 clubs in the current CL not wanting to lower the standard but not wanting to move up to the PL either. And of course the lack of doubling up opportunities for the PL riders other than those U25 British riders. But unless the structure is changed I don't see how the CL can allow new entrants. Without them (or one or more of the existing CL clubs) fielding an under strength team. The buzz of returning to the league will only last so long if the team is constantly being hammered. Plus this should reduce costs which could, dare I say it, be passed on to the paying public in reduced admission at a time when lots of people are struggling with increased costs. There are no salient arguments for continuing as is but that is exactly what will happen.

Well there's a saving right there. Just contact them by phone or Skype. Imagine travelling all the way to Denmark only to find out that Bjarne Pedersen has retired The only hope is that one of the few PL riders who don't double up aren't getting in rides in Poland. Blodorn (doubt he'd be a heat leader), Jorgensen (been there) or Becker (imagine he's active in Poland). Peter Kildemand might be interesting if he returns to Kings Lynn. Presuming he's not riding in Poland as he's got a PL place.

It most likely means there's someone in Glasgow who looks a bit like him.

Having slated the Diamonds elsewhere I think they'll win this one unless Kye Thomson has improved to heat leader level after a good first season. The Monarchs look like a developmental team this season. Even with Harris the Diamonds will probably concede the now traditional 8 points at the back end but Thomson aside the Diamonds top six should have enough to see off the rest of the Monarchs.

Maybe. I think the Butcher and the Painter & Decorator are being taken for a ride. Got to commend these guys for putting their money where their mouth is as I sure wouldn't. But they really should have been looking for assurances that they wouldn't be left in the same situation as last season. Ironically the team they put together for 2020 had way more potential than anything that's been served up since. BSPL seem to have bent the rules for Birmingham to track Pearson maybe they could have done the same for Skorja and Smetana. That said I did put them in contact with a multi national business I work with for what appeared to be an open goal sponsorship deal and nothing came of it. Anyway I hear the catering is fantastic so I'm sure the crowd levels will hold up.

least surprising result in the history of the sport. no point in banging on about signing a number 1 or getting stronger middle order riders in. They don't exist. as I keep saying if the BSPL don't put some thought into making teams more evenly matched this is what will transpire and next season (or even this) there'll only be ten teams in the league and the season after that....maybe less. Plenty of results thus far back this up with plenty of massive home wins. Having said that some of the Diamonds press releases would lead you to think that they are either genuinely clueless or think they can fool the public by putting out a team of this nature. Remember the last signing would take the team right up to the points limit.... whisper 10 years ago.

They won it in September so it was only 3 and a bit months in the pub.

Not enough fixtures for Newcastle and I suspect Birmingham and Newcastle would struggle to attract fans for a perceived 3rd tier league. Is why they binned the Gems last season even though the Diamonds were hopeless. Plus you've reduced the CL to nine teams. It all becomes rather pointless. Realistically I don't think Scunthorpe can compete at CL level, unsure on Berwick (under the limit) . Don't think Redcar or Edinburgh or Plymouth have mega rich owners but seem to be well run clubs and would probably welcome some cost control. Especially if rising inflation means you either increase ticket prices and loose even more supporters or retain prices and loose money. All the evidence is out there. You can ignore it as the promoters seem to be doing or you can do something about it and build a structure that produces a value for money product which doesn't rely on wealthy individuals subsidising it. There's just not that many of them about. As I've posted elsewhere it's not even that big a thrill to win. Most of the remaining supporters would pop a hip out if they celebrated too much. It needs a sustainable structure with affordable pricing to attract a younger audience. Younger riders could play a massive part in that with their use of social media. The base product can still be thrilling if it's competitive and the race track is conducive to great racing but too many times it isn't.

with what teams?

Short sighted in my opinion. Especially if you're looking to attract a new (neutral) audience via streaming. That's why the product needs to be good. Would you pay to watch the Diamonds get humiliated at Glasgow on Friday night? Ultimately if you strangle the life out of the opposition they'll disappear and there'll be even fewer teams. Just look at MotoGP and F1. They place restrictions on teams because they could see the product becoming boring with only a few riders/drivers able to win due to their financial clout. Which lead to some manufacturers leaving the series. You have to look at the wider product. Sport is about jeopardy. And lets face it how much of a thrill is winning a national speedway league? I remember the Diamonds win in 2001 and it was a great night but I didn't spend the rest of the year talking about it in the pub with my mates. It barely made the local news and didn't seem to have a significant impact on crowd levels like it probably did in the 70's. It's the ultimate cheap thrill so why damage the product for the sake of winning something nobody cares about anymore?

Where are these stand alone clubs coming from? Is there Mildenhall and Kent presently. Possibly IoW if they forgive BSPL. Potentially Workington although they might have loftier ambitions. There's only enough clubs at present for two leagues of any integrity. Newcastle should clearly drop into the NL but there just aren't enough fixtures and that's with reserve teams. I agree the young riders need to face and learn from more experienced riders which is why the standard of the 2nd division should become a sustainable hybrid of the CL and NL with current CL 2nd strings become No1's. Those CL clubs who don't want to reduce the standard can join the PL. They employ many PL riders already anyway. Having a sustainable 2nd division would potentially allow more new entrant promotions and teams to allow the sport to grow. At the moment it's starving itself of oxygen by forcing promoters to spend beyond their means.

correct my apologies but 43 points then you have 4 riders whose combined average would be circa 15 points. It would be pretty disastrous if those 4 only contributed 3 points of the back of three 1-5's. One of the 4 might even average more than the best rider in the other team. You'd be hard pushed to provide an example of a team having 4 riders failing to beat a single opponent. And the only need to do it three times to win the match. The reality is that Workington are the last team to win the Championship starting without a rider averaging less than 8.00 points and they finished someway behind Peterborough in the league table but had riders who had improved by the end of season play offs, from recollection. Noticeably no team started or ended the season with 3 riders averaging over 8. The fact that Poole followed the 3 big hitter policy last season and this would suggest there's an inherent advantage in fielding a strong top two/three, especially in a league where there aren't enough no1's to go around. At the end of last season there were only about 14 riders likely to return in 2022 who averaged over 8.00. With two clubs snapping up six of them it's not difficult to see why some teams are not competitive. You only have to look at the results so far this season to realise there's a large disparity in the team strengths. Can't be a good way to attract supporters in my opinion.

how you going to do that?

yeah it's a handful compared to what went before it. there'll always be some opportunities for British youngsters by virtue of the low starting average. But with less teams operating and some teams not being able to secure no1's and building strength in depth (even though that's sub optimal) those opportunities are now less and less. There'll always be special talents who are sought after and will achieve regardless. Robert Lambert was probably the last one but they don't come along too often. Others need sustained opportunity to progress. The CL just isn't providing that currently. Don't get me wrong youngsters can't be allowed to have protected team places without progressing but it's fairly easy to say you get 40 CL matches before your average increases regardless of your actual average. So youngsters know exactly what they need to do to retain a team place. I don't think there are any debutants at reserve in the CL this season. How long will any current NL talents continue if they never get the opportunity to progress? It's basically product development. All successful businesses do it but speedway has lost its way in trying to meet the demands of the doubling up riders which has restricted opportunities for youth to progress. They clearly know it's an issue as they wouldn't have announced the rising star system but have had to abandon it after one season because it's unworkable at the current CL level, being full of experienced double uppers.

that's right but the standard of the top division is much reduced from that era as few World Stars compete whereas in the 90's they nearly all rode in the British/Elite league. So whilst the 2nd division standard is reduced the gap between the divisions is much closer. Which I think was a deliberate move by the promoters to encourage promotion and relegation between the two divisions which just never transpired. Not sure the 90's produced British riders aplenty? Two world champs and no world cups?? Hardly any SGP round winners. Appreciate it's before your time but compared to the 70's the 90's would be considered as a a barren spell.

I think the reality is there should only be two divisions. Not many might agree but I think that the current Premiership is a decent product based on the TV matches I've watched only. But only six clubs is an issue. At least a couple of CL clubs could afford to compete at that level and sourcing 14 additional riders shouldn't dilute the product too much. The CL should become a sustainable hybrid between the current CL and NL. Used as a platform to progress British youngsters who would be the only riders allowed to ride in both divisions. With the current 4 star riders being reserves in the PL and Heat leaders in the CL. Current CL 2nd strings would become Heat Leaders (i.e. Roynon, Wright, Wethers) with any non UK riders also being Heat leaders. With the reserve births restricted to riders of limited CL experience and 2nd string for those riders with CL experience you haven't achieved Heat leader status. You can then see the career path for a youngster. SGP3, CL reserve, CL 2nd string, CL Heat Leader/PL reserve, PL 2nd string, PL Heat Leader/International rider, SGP. Some will progress more quickly than others, not all will make the grade but the opportunities should be there. And clubs would be incentivised to develop young riders with the overall aim of having British riders competing and winning on the World stage, which is still the best way of getting wider media coverage of the sport. At a more sustainable level perhaps the likes of IoW and Mildenhall could join the CL and it would certainly be easier for new entrants (Workington, Coventry, Kent) to join. Of course the problem is how do the current plethora of Double Uppers maintain their income levels? Without them increasing their demands on PL clubs? My suggestion is to run a stand alone 4TT league akin to the Hundred in cricket. Which would form the content for the BSN. Each match streamed would feature 3 away teams which should increase viewer numbers. You could even include clubs representing defunct tracks (Falcon's, Viking's, Bee's, Wasps, Heathens) to attract those lapsed supporters. There were only 2 divisions in the 70's and that produced an incredible amount of British talent because the opportunities were there with the number of tracks in operation. Now there are less tracks a more structured career path is required. The current CL doesn't really provide those opportunities.

They're not though. Averages are based on 4 rides. If your two best riders get to have 5 rides then they score more actual points than they average. And matches are won on actual points. As I posted before if you've got 3 riders who always beat the opposition that's a guaranteed 44 points. without the other 4 riders beating the opposition. By definition the 6 point riders are less consistent and invariably drop points to the lower averaged rider opposition. It used to all be about having riders who would improve on their starting average the most. Having 3 nine pointers makes that really difficult on the basis you've got to be a bit special to average 10. Now that there's a dearth of 9 pointers it doesn't matter that much as if your 9 pointers maintain their averages you'll be right up there. The format is fine if there are enough top riders to go around but there isn't at present and there's not even enough 6 pointers around to go for a strength in depth line up. Hence a number of teams being under the points limit. So teams aren't even starting level on combined average points anyway. The point which I think we can all agree on is that more competitive teams increase the chances of an improved product which can only be a good thing. Part of the answer to achieve that is to understand the limitations of averages and the heat format and adjust the rules to level the playing field. A bi-product is you'd potentially reduce the demands of the top riders knowing team places are limited which can only help.

you know that I know that but what about casual supporter or even potential new supporters. It's obvious to us that six pairs will face each other once resulting in 15 heats and maybe a semi and final. But maybe if you'd watched the SON you might think oh 23 heats in a pairs meeting that's good value. Again I'm being devils advocate as the OP was getting an unnecessary hard time for asking a valid question. I now presume you're happy to buy tins without labels and are happy to run that soup or dog food gamble. The appropriate football analogy would be the length of the game. And yes if there was a chance the match might only last 60 minutes football supporters would want to know what they're paying for. As it's been 90 minutes infinitum they don't need to ponder that. Speedway is different with different formats applicable to different types of competition. It should all be part of the promotion of the event. I don't see why wanting to know what you're paying to watch is nerdy. Just common sense especially when people have less money and there are plenty of alternatives. I don't think you can say it doesn't matter because you've been able to work out how many heats there'll be.

just to be devils advocate what happens if you pay your c£20 entrance fee buy the programme and find out there are only 10 heats? Or your team only appears three times? would you buy a tin with no label on it? So it does matter. It shouldn't have taken someone to peruse the rulebook to discover the format. To be fair I dare say the promoters would have released it nearer the time but you can't expect people to pay money for unknown content. unless you're running a lottery.

it clearly will. the heat format massively favours teams with at least two no1 riders. It's why Glasgow don't win the title because they don't back up Cook with another big hitter. They go for riders on a perceived low average. Basso/Brennan might hit no1 level this season and the strategy might work. In the current format the top two have an extra ride each and heat 13 and 15 potentially gives you an 8 point advantage. Heat 2 and 8 just don't offset because even if you build strength in depth by definition those lower averaged riders are not guaranteed to always deliver 8 points from those heats. If you're Poole and you have 3 no1's capable of beating all of the opposition there are only 3 heats in which one or more of them don't appear. i.e. only 3 heats the opposition can realistically get a heat advantage. Even then if your top three has scored 41 between them and the others are guaranteed 3 points they only need another 2 points to win. Clearly speedway matches aren't won on paper but the winning strategy is obvious. It's why Poole follow the strategy and are successful. They know what they're doing. Well played and within the rules but if it's detrimental to the product because there aren't enough heatleaders to go around or some of the teams can't afford them then you end up with less teams to defeat.

yeah and how did that work out for them??? Same owners turn it around? Or saved by wealthy owners? Not intended as a pop at Glasgow. They've turned the clubs fortunes around and it would be great if others could do the same but there just aren't that many potential owners able to risk making a loss. There will always be team at the top and a team at the bottom but if the team at the bottom has no chance why would you pay to watch? I recall Glasgow rocking up at Newcastle with Martin McKinna as 2nd heat leader and thinking there's only 4 heats worth watching here, the ones with Lawson in. Indeed they eventually folded and by the time they became Workington they only lasted weeks before being expelled for fielding too weak a side. It's just not good for business. The fact that you hope the Diamonds strengthen up by including Ben Barker tells me everything I need to know. Without him last season the Diamonds wouldn't have hit 25. Starke might do something similar on Friday and Complin might take a liking to the track but we're talking all 7 Diamonds over performing to get anywhere near 35. The thrill of it.

money. The more points you score the more you earn. Decent incentive I'd say. Then at the end of the season you get to reset the limit for next season based on the expected available riders and what average they're on and how many teams are in the league so it would be complete folly for riders to 2nd guess next years rules. It's not complicated. They stopped it in the Premiership because there were no top line riders left. And to be honest the fact the the promoters stopped doing it is probably arguing in favour adopting it given their track record for decision making. Look at any successful business and the focus is on the product. If you think Glasgow vs Newcastle this coming Friday is a great product and advert for speedway fair play to you. But based on falling attendances everywhere it would suggest not many agree. Soon there'll be a 6 team Championship which, like the Premiership will improve the product but it hardly screams major sport.

Because you want to be entertained by watching two teams who have at least a realistic chance of being at least competitive. Unless you're entertained by whitewashes against cannon fodder. If you think it through restricting teams to one rider over 8.00 points at the start of the season results in supply exceeding demand. Which means every team might benefit from reduced demands from those no1's. The richest teams will still secure the best no1 riders and inevitably the best teams but at least they'll face competitive opposition. Or maybe we should just cut out the middle man and hold an auction to decide who pays most to win a title? Would avoid losing money on those zero entertainment matches against woefully weak opposition.

Having said on the 'BSN Streaming Channel' thread that this was a crazy fixture to pick for the first ever match, I have to now say it has the look of a cracking match. Perhaps the promoters knew Birmingham were going to add Ellis, Vissing and Pearson when they made the choice? Or maybe they got lucky? Who cares as it looks like being a really competitive fixture. I think Birmingham can't afford to have any passengers as I'm expecting Flint to step up this season. To hard to call.

Glad to hear that. Watching the Diamonds is a big enough pain in the ass . Sorry couldn't resist but really glad to hear in all seriousness that the Redcar promotion have listened to the fans in this respect. One of the reason's I lost interest. Takes all the momentum from a meeting.