enotian

mid 80's when I first got into speedway Havelock, Dugard and Silver were the future of British/World speedway. All had great debut seasons in the old National League (Div 2 for newbies) averaging 7 ish in a fairly strong league with the likes of Kennett, Jessup and Collins in it you'd been World Finalists not to long before. I'd have said Dugard would have been the one to become a World Champ. World Final debut at Bradford in 1990? Must have been in his early 20's at most. Seemed to freeze in the spotlight and scored nothing or next to nothing. Don't ever recall him doing anything on an international stage thereafter apart from the wildcard (at Brandon?). Superb domestically for a long time, against all the top guys in the World.

The 15 heat format is pretty good in that it provides a min of 4 rides from 4 different programmed gates for each rider. Not sure if each rider faces every opponent? But you're never going to get the perfect formula in that respect, apart from a 16 heat 4TT. What the 15 heat formula has done is given an advantage to teams with two strong heat leaders over teams with strength in depth. Those teams have to be more than 8 ahead going into heat 13 to stand a chance of winning with heat 13 and 15 likely to yield an 8 point turnaround. It's all a bit predictable and stage managed I kind of understand placing the highest averaged rider at number 1 what with the top averaged rider naturally being referred to as the teams No.1 but I don't think it is that difficult a concept to grasp for the general public. I like the idea of different types of team (strength in depth vs strong heat leaders carrying a tail) and I think allowing teams to line up tactically to counter the oppositions strength would only add to the unpredictability. I don't see why a rider can't occupy any of the 7 positions. The lowest two averaged riders will still be the reserves regardless of which position they line up in. Whilst I like the idea of each rider having a start from each gate I think allowing a team that's trailing by 6 to choose the best gates is also a way of increasing the unpredictability of a match which has to be a good thing.

Another BSPL announcement that ends up generating more questions than providing answers.... ....not exactly great communication. No doubt vague enough to allow it to be made up on the hoof. I think we can all agree that young riders need more track time and in that respect the idea is a sound one. But what's the level? The fixed race nights would allow CL #7 standard riders to participate which could make it really competitive and challenging for the young riders. Or is it SGP4 250/125cc level? Those kids need track time to but it's not a natural progression from that standard to a PL Rising Star. No doubt all will be revealed when they've decided how it will work.

Track Cycling? Martial Arts? How many teams win a world championship after seven minutes of action? Not a fair comparison. If you compare to a team sport where matches last 80-90 minutes the world champs are held over a number of weeks. Relatively speaking, using the football FIFA world cup as an example, your country might get knocked out after three matches (the third may actually be a dead rubber but let's say three) those three matches equate to 5% of the entire tournament time (if all matches last 90 mins). If your country is knocked out of a 27 heat SON after two heats they've appeared in 7% of the entire tournament time.

The hope would be that the jeopardy of elimination for finishing last would alter the mindset and induce team riding. The 4,3,2,0 scoring didn't really do it in the round robin format whereby the leader rarely looked like risking the 4 points even if their opponents were accumulating 5.

Yeah, as I said above the seven team format does seem to generate the right number of heats but does that make it the most entertaining format? I'd prefer 16 counties in a knock out style competition rather than the round robin format. Fair enough all the countries don't face each other and some are eliminated after only two heats but that's fairly standard for world championships

Agreed nine countries is fine for the SWC. Hosts in the final. Two semis of four teams, winners to the final, 2nd and 3rd to the last chance, the winners of which progress to the four team final. You wouldn't want more than nine. But if you want a more international feel to a world championship event then the pairs allows that. Currently a SWC would only have Australia from outside of Europe. Admittedly the pairs only adds USA (and maybe Argentina or New Zealand) but if you wanted to develop riders from other nations then only having to develop two is much easier than four. I was referring to the seven team format used in the SON, where seven pairs face each other. Might just be me being a bit anal but I like even numbers. Odd when there's only three times during the event when all seven teams have ridden an equal amount of races. Whilst a World Cup of 7 person teams would be the ultimate genuine article they couldn't even achieve that 50 years ago in the hey day so I don't see it happening anytime soon. Nobody wants to see a Rest of the World team in a sport with any credibility. There are currently probably six nations who could put out a seven man team which could give any sort of challenge to a full Polish side. Maybe if you restricted the team composition to only two SGP riders at the top and two U-21 riders at reserve you'd even the odds for the other five teams and make it more akin to league speedway but it's hardly in the spirit of elite sport not allowing a nation to select its seven best riders. Might actually result in a decent competition (if the Russians played ball). You'd still fancy the Poles to win it but the match scores might be closer. No doubt if they did go for it by match three GB would be using Fricke as a guest for the injured Woffinden and R/R for Craig Cook.

Agree. Trouble with the 4TT SWC is there's currently only about nine countries who could field four man teams without dipping into riders without sufficient experience. If you want a wider range of countries involved pairs is the format. Not sure that the seven team format is ideal other than it churns out about the right number of heats and every team faces each other. Probably only warrants a one off final. 16 countries, 20 seeded qualifying heats (2 last places and you're eliminated) followed by quarter finals, semi finals and a grand final. 27 heats in total. Sure some of the qualifiers would be mismatches but the jeopardy of finishing last would apply to each heat. I guess you could spread the format out over three days with the 20 qualifying heats on day one with the bottom eight on day two and the top eight on day three, so the home nation is at least involved in two of the three meetings but really the one off meeting should be all that is needed for the SON. Let the SWC have the multiple events, one venue format.

in the same way the Superbowl is just a glorified American Football match. Glad the U21 reserve has gone. Smaller carbon footprint as well

There's plenty of young British riders out there with potential to be really good riders in the future, including Archie. The trouble is that the Championship is full of riders who should only ride at a higher level but now maximise their income by also riding at Championship level. I know these guys aren't SGP standard by any means but some of them are next level down, Masters etc. These guys are established and by having these two income streams and potentially some continental racing as well they have a massive advantage, in terms of being able to invest in better equipment, than these young kids trying to progress. No reflection on Archies ability but it's too difficult to compete in a league where the majority are on much bigger budgets. It's bad enough for someone like Max Clegg or Matty Wethers trying to compete with only one team place as opposed to everyone else's two. There needs to be a level which will allow these lads to gain track time (not just three rides) and progress against more experienced riders as well as other young riders. Unless there's an influx of teams into the National League (hopefully all six Premiership teams will have one) then I'm not sure where any talented kids get a ride? With potentially only nine teams in the Championship they could easily have retained the rising star scheme if they'd wanted. Atkins, Edwards, Lawlor, Parkinson-Blackburn, Ablitt, Freeman, Gilkes, Hagon, McGurk(s), Mulford, Spencer and Spooner would all benefit from riding against more experienced riders. But how would they fare against riders like Chris Harris with his 400 years experience and earning x times more than them. Had the Rising Star system been retained, to make the teams level you really need to also restrict teams to only one rider over 8.00 and no one would vote for that even if it makes financial sense for some of the struggling teams. On that basis they have to retain all the double upper/downers there is really no point of retaining the rising star scheme. I just hope there is some alternative option for these young kids to get track time and progress so they can progress to the next level. I'm sure Archie's time will come again but based on the youtube footage of Geordie Congreve (who is 4 years his senior) he would look to be the better bet in 2022. Presumably he comes in on a British licence as the Diamonds aren't able to access work permit riders. If that means just under 8.00 for the last rider Richie Worrall would make the Diamonds competitive especially with Wright at reserve.

Feb 6th 2021 New Zealand Solo Championship

I'm hoping that's a tongue in cheek post. Everything is relative so if there's two thirds more points available the pay per point can decrease. So if you were on £100 a point and earned £1,500 for a 15 point maximum, you'd now earn £1,500 for a 20 maximum at £75 per point. Maybe you'd need to adjust the guaranteed pay as 0 * £100 is £0 while 1 * £75 is £75. Importantly the riders aren't being asked to do anything more than they currently are so there'd be no increase in pay required. I've only responded because your response it probably exactly what the promoters will think. Feel free to whoosh me.

Yes that would make sense. So probably not a solution to the "paid for" product (other than as an add on to the main event) but hopefully a potential solution to the rider supply and demand issue. Although I imagine that transition from youth racing to professional league racing is expensive so it would be interesting to see if DSE have any plans to facilitate that. If they're serious about developing the sport internationally they need to create opportunities for those SGP4 and SGP3 riders to progress. Maybe that's the leverage for UK promoters to get more access to SGP riders or access to have some of these developing riders subsidised if the domestic leagues provide opportunities for them to develop. A career path. Afterall it is the SGP right holders who ultimately benefit from having access to higher standard riders from a wider geographical area. Sounds like DSE want to have more say over the riding talent and not let the Polish authorities rule the roost. So it could be a good time to get in bed with them.

Agreed. 1 point for finishing the race would avoid those "retired whilst last" and would add to the controversy over an exclusion. If you think about it from a riders perspective if you score 0 points for last and don't earn any (additional) money or contribute to the team score, then why would you complete the four laps, if there was little chance of passing the rider in third? I guess it's all marginal but by retiring whilst last you save on wear and tear on the machinery and fuel. It might even give you (your team) an advantage if your tyres have done less laps. I'm sure the extra 4 points per heat can be structured into the pay rates so that the riders earn the same and it doesn't cost the promoters more. why is 3, 2, 1, 0 simpler than 4, 3, 2, 1? The answer is it's not.

Is SGP4 the answer? "The Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM) and Discovery Sports Events have revealed their vision for the future of Speedway over the next decade. By bringing international Speedway together under one global promoter for the first time, the new vision will build a stronger and more connected international pyramid for the sport – from the grassroots all the way to the pinnacle of Speedway. Important part of this pyramid will be a new international entry-level category SGP4. The new SGP4 category will be introduced in 2023 and is planned to be cost effective with 4-stroke easy to handle engine that will be universal and equal everywhere. The Ambassador Tony Rickardsson is on the mission to develop the SGP4 category." You'd at least hope that the promoters are arranging to meet with Tony Rickardsson. It's not clear what the level of SGP4 "grassroots" is. You'd naturally feel that it's lower than SGP3 which wouldn't be a suitable product for the paying public but if you interpret it as being standard 500cc machinery then it's probably about a National League standard. A stepping stone from youth classes into the professional leagues. A sustainable pyramid is what is required.

Don't, by virtue of finishing last, the Diamonds get first pick of the Rising Stars in 2022? So Leon Flint at #6 must be nailed on..... ....is that the sound of goal posts being moved??

I think he did on track but was disqualified. I can't remember the incident (even thought it was only last night - worrying) but recall Charlie W announcing it when they handed back to the studio. Since 2015 rider #1 position at Torun has recorded more race points than any of the other 15 spots. Drawn at #1 tonight is Artem Laguta. Looks like a first Russian world individual champion.

I think they said that there were Covid restrictions. Should all be done in one weekend. Friday night 16 pairs in a knockout to qualify for finals day, Saturday afternoon bottom 8 race of for places 9th to 16th. Saturday evening 23 heats (plus semi(s) and grand final) to crown the winners. Home nation guaranteed to appear on both days but, as stated earlier, use proper race tracks please. No U21 reserves but only allow one permanent reserve swap. i.e. once someone has been swapped out their meeting is finished.

Totally agree, both points. I'm not one for having a pop at the commentators because it's not a job I could do and I reckon it's much harder than it looks but...... ....why do they struggle so much with the format? It's the same every year. I know both meetings weren't great but they should be building the excitement. Tonight Russia had two heats left and could have made the run off and what did we get.... "that's the Russians finished..... ....oh no they've got another heat..... but that's a dead rubber" total rubbish. In fairness the Russians never looked like troubling the qualifiers but technically they could still have qualified. I know stats aren't everyone's cup of tea but they could do with having someone providing stats to prompt content rather than "I've seen him with his shirt off!!!" tbf that was quite funny.

I think that the track is actually better suited to slower racing. As has been stated earlier the modern bikes haven't improved the entertainment at Brough. However, the NL as it stands wouldn't be viable for a stand alone track. If the CL was more sensibly structured so that teams were made up of predominantly British based riders Newcastle might stand a chance of fielding a competitive team. As it stands operating on a Sunday rules out a whole host of riders who fancy themselves as being international class riders but still want to ride in two British leagues, just not on a Sunday. If teams were allowed one experienced rider (so the likes of Wethers, Wright and Roynon would be No.1 riders) one foreign U24(?) rider (mostly UK based Aussies, Americans etc) plus/or any UK U24(?) who've previously averaged over 8 in the NL or 5 or the CL (i.e. Clegg, Mountain, Flint, Kemp Palin etc) to make up the heat leader trio. Two young British reserves (who average less than 4.00 in the CL and have less than 30(?) NL meetings, i.e. lads progressing from the NL or BYC, Freeman, Smith, Embleton, McGurks, Hagon) with the two 2nd strings filled by anyone who isn't classed as a heat leader or reserve (i.e. Danny Phillips types). Allowing only the U24 UK riders to double up in the PL. That should allow teams all CL teams to field affordable competitive teams. Maybe the likes of Poole, Leicester and Glasgow would move up to improve the PL but with a more affordable team structure in the CL perhaps Eastbourne could return, Mildenhall and IOW might step up, Oxford return, Birmingham also survive. I think with a competitive team at that sort of level big enough crowds could be attracted to cover the costs. I don't think you can under estimate how important a competitive team is at Newcastle. More so than the level of racing. If a team sponsor could be found how much would been needed to keep the club afloat? Are we talking tens of thousands or under £10k?? Does anyone know?

I was wondering about a recycled single use plastic track (that should get the environmentals juices flowing) if that's not a contradiction. Think Lego. Can't believe they've not tried it in Denmark. Maybe with a textured surface to allow more grip on the outside line. Would you be able to slide a bike on such a surface, with no loose material? It would certainly be consistent and need limited in match maintenance. Could even have holes to allow drainage in the wet as long as it didn't compromise the strength. Just like Lego you should be able to erect and dismantle as often as required. And transportable without having to source shale. Just like erecting a concert stage, probably less complex without a lighting rig. Combined with noise friendly e-engines you could hold meetings in city centres no trouble. Think cricket grounds for the best shape. Colourful to. Imagine sponsors logo's on the racing surface not just the air fence. I guess it's just too expensive an experiment to happen. Or just not possible. It wouldn't be speedway as we know it, which should be noisy, smelly and dirty, but if environmentally friendly is the direction of travel why not go the full monty. Recycled tracks and battery powered bikes..... Professor Brian Cox was on the radio yesterday and reckons the universe ends at some point anyway. In billions of years time. The big rip apparently. But I guess the end of the universe is a bit different to maintaining a planet that is habitable for a little while longer so there might be something in this environmentalism. Could be an opportunity to introduce a form of speedway to a whole new generation of environmentally friendly youngsters... ...or do they not like competitive sport anyway?

Yeah you're probably right. It would probably need the top riders to attract interest. Just interested to see if speedway can embrace festival culture. Not sure about post pandemic but prior to there's been a definite shift to weekend (3 day) events. Whereby people can justify spending more to attend over a couple of days. Many people who never regularly attend music concerts will look forward to spending a weekend at a music festival. They maybe only want to see a couple of bands but it's escapism for a weekend and you enjoy the atmosphere. I've not been to a MotoGP, WSB or BSB weekend but that's the same appeal. I don't think everyone watches every race, they mingle with people who have similar interest, maybe meet up with friends from afar. We've just had the Magic Weekend here in Newcastle with about 40,000 people from Yorkshire and Lancashire descending on Newcastle. They don't watch every match. I'm sure some of them never leave the pubs but they have a great weekend away and spend money on accommodation and refreshments in the City. The double round SGP's are a move in that direction. So the Poles might disappear when the Nordic or Overseas Finals are on but it doesn't matter. They've paid for the full weekend and they get to see the four meetings with Poles in them if that's what they want to do. It's different to putting a tournament on where you pay for individual meetings. Not surprising that the Poles don't buy tickets to watch a meeting without any interest. [exchange Poles for any other nationality] MotoGP has blanket TV coverage over three days but I doubt they get decent viewing figures other than race day. But its live content to fill a sports channels schedule. They pay to show the race day but use the qualifying content to pad out their schedules. Certainly speedway doesn't have that pull but make the event available to stream. You only have one set up cost but can sell the weekend PPV for £50 or each individual meeting for £12 (the final £15) I'm sure you're right that spreading the qualifiers around Europe is just a way of spreading the losses. So you're right, why bother if nobody is interested. No one is obliged to provide a fair route for anyone to become world champion. But if you can put together an event people would be interested in paying to see then why wouldn't you. And if that means a less disrupted domestic season then double bubble.

Didn't Steve Cram train there so I'm assuming it's a 400 metre track sort of size. Loads of investment in South Shields in recent years. I've been involved in some of the grant funded stuff and about to invest another £80m. South Shields is one of the most socially deprived area's in the country so the funding opportunities are there as it's easier to prove improved economic benefit in a deprived area. i.e. will it bring jobs directly at the stadium or indirectly in shops and hotels. The council do want to attract more visitors, they put on free events in Bents Park for example. They want it to be a proper seaside resort Would a speedway team attract the type of numbers who'd spend enough money to improve the local economy? Enough to offset against 'noise'? And floodlights might be an issue. I can't see permission being given for 7 days a week operation so it couldn't be used for training. If I recall there are some new housing developments and some expensive housing very close by (to the West not many to the East). It's effectively the posh end of South Shields. It really would be a cracking day out. Amusement Park, Beach, Fish & Chips or Ocean Road curry (both if you're THJ). Despite being almost in the sea it's quite accessibly by road (tunnel) or train or even Ferry!! Although it's a bit of a walk from the river. The council are supportive of the Mariners progressing up the football pyramid as it will attract more visitors from outside of the region. On that basis having a sports team in a national competition is ideal. An authority like South Tyneside is never going to attract top level sporting events (apart from GNR which it's lost in 2020 and 2021) so having a team in a national competition would appeal, especially one which has moved from a neighbouring authority. Grants for Sporting facilities are outside of my remit but I think they tend to be linked to community based projects and are probably therefore smaller than the cost of building a speedway track and refurbishing a stadium. You'd need a significant local contribution regardless. Certainly worth investigating the possibility because it could be a really good solution. But you need to be able to demonstrate how the area would benefit economically and what it would offer the community (reducing crime, improving skills etc). PS it's right where the Great North Run normally ends for those not familiar with the area.

My point was that if there were more structure to the FIM calendar then it might give British Promoters the chance to structure the domestic season around that Calendar. Allow clubs to run meetings on Friday and Saturday nights if that's when bigger crowds can be attracted. Allowing more riders to participate in British speedway then there might be a chance for the British promoters to provide the type of product which is attractive to spectators. Maybe a 10 team top division with no doubling up (except for perhaps British youngsters) and no scratch teams of guests because x rider is away in Timbuktu losing money while they try to qualify for whatever series or representing GP in the European Pairs nobody sends their best riders to. I'm certain that the likes of Holder, Ellis and Bewley have all missed meetings riding elsewhere this season. And certainly the likes of Kemp, Rowe, Brennan, Flint and Palin have all had to miss meetings to ride in youth championships. Effectively an audition to get a Polish contract probably at the riders expense and therefore effectively subsidised by British speedway. Everyone benefits if these riders progress Internationally but if there's no sustainable domestic scene there'll be no riders to progress. So there has to be a compromise or reciprocal agreement which benefits both International and Domestic authorities. Rugby and Cricket both acknowledge this symbiosis successfully. Football still does even though the club brands are much bigger than the International teams. Speedway is in danger of cutting off its own supply chain. We've already seen New Zealand and Norway effectively disappear. Who knows how long Becker can carry the US flag. And if British speedway keeps shrinking how long before GB and Australia are in the same boat. At a time when most sports (all businesses) are trying to expand into new markets speedway is shrinking there's. I'd probably still watch SGP if it was 16 Poles in a series ridden entirely in Poland as long as the action was good. But I think I'd be in the minority on that.

I was thinking more along the lines of holding the whole qualifying competition over a weekend at the same venue. Riders nominated by their national federation. 4 qualifiers (1 Friday night three across Saturday) top three into the Final on Sunday next four into the last chance qualifier on the Sunday prior to the Final. Top three from that plus a home wildcard into the Final. Split the qualifiers into Continental Final (riders from mainland Europe), European Final (any European), Scandinavian/Nordic Final and Overseas Final (AUS, USA, GB etc) to ensure a mix of nationalities make the Final. Call it the Inter Continental Final with the top three qualifying for next seasons SGP. You crown 5 titleholders all over and done with in one weekend at one location. Surely that sort of content would attract plenty of spectators and TV deals or streaming sales across the competing nations. You might even attract all of the GP riders to participate if the exposure and prize money makes it worth their while. No need to travel around Europe (probably at a loss) to chase the dream of a spot in the SGP series. The recent Grand Prix Challenge was a complete non event. Even if the track hadn't been terrible it was a total anti-climax in front of a sparse crowd. Probably the twelfth biggest speedway meeting of the year and nothing made of it, despite having dragged riders across Europe to qualify for it.