chunky

I have no idea what's going on... Karl Fiala's "Speedway Friends" group has been deactivated, because it "broke community guidelines". Now, I've just tried to get on the "Old Time Speedway" group, and I can't find that. Any of you on that group, and have seen that deactivated - or is it just me?

That's a great call! It's easy to forget how poor and ineffective he was in his first season. He has the rare distinction of actually DOUBLING his average from one season to the next (4.17 to 8.63).

Yeah, Rob was definitely an "acquired taste"! What a poseur! Funny thing, with riders like him, their persona gets in the way of their ability. Rob actually was a damn good rider, but people let their views of him colour their opinions.

You too...

Doyle?

See above...

Okay, let's get rid of Woffinden and Madsen, as they are crap. Kick Doyle out, 'cos he's dangerous. Might as well get rid of Zmarzlik and Lindgren, as they are the same. And Lebedevs. Lambert and Bewley don't know what line to take, so take them out. Leave Holder out as he's an Aussie. So, who do we bring in to replace 'em?

Wasn't that long ago, people were saying the same about Doyle...

Not at all. And making wild accusations doesn't do you any favours. What I am saying is that crimes involving physical violence - such as murder - should be considered the most serious crimes.

Whereas those who kill others because of their race/colour/religion, or who assault/rob the elderly and vulnerable, should be invited round for tea and cupcakes?

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't get that, and they think that everything is black and white...

That's what amazes me. Here in the US, drugs have always been more widely available/used, and people always say, "recreational drug use is fine". When it leads to harder drugs, and when it leads to crime, no it's not! Yet they still try to claim, "Oh, it's just a coincidence..."

That is why I never referred to religion, as I didn't know your standing. Again, that's why I refuse use the term "mistake". It sickens me when people use the term "mistake" instead of "bad decision". They are not the same.

No out is trying to justify his actions; there IS no justification. I am just trying to find out whether people believe in rehabilitation and atonement.

Okay, so some simple - and honest - questions. Do you think that ex-cons should ALWAYS be considered cons? Do you think that they can redeem themselves, and become useful - even upstanding - members of the community? Should they ever be re-employed? Should they even be given the opportunity? Should they be locked up for life? Should they be deprived of any contact with the outside world for life? Should they simply be executed?

If he posts sensible stuff, yes. Why should he not be allowed to post on a speedway forum? You don't think he should be allowed to talk to people? Probably not... Yes, what he did was bad; very bad. However, addictions - good or bad - can be considered an "illness", and like regular afflictions, there is treatment for them. I hope to God that he has been cured, but at least he owns up to his own issues.

That's hardly a second chance, is it? Or maybe it's a second chance - on YOUR terms?

Along with an opportunity to redeem himself. Yes, he is an idiot, and yes, he is a violent thug. BUT, do we just consign him to the scrap-heap of life (as the warm-hearted and incredibly perfect Lisa-Colette wishes), or do we give him a second chance? Not everyone makes the most of a second chance. In fact, a lot don't. However, history is littered with idiots and violent thugs who HAVE turned their lives around in the best way possible. No, he shouldn't be given endless chances, but he SHOULD be given one...

The reason I said it didn't count was because it appeared you were using Vernon, rather than Ross - which is what he went by. Had you just listed "Ross Gilbertson", there would have been no question. However, off the top of my head, I can think of Ross Brady and Ross Nickisson.

As a rider, or as a hit man?

Can't have Cecil; been several Cecils, including Brown and Forbes. Can't have Marcus, as Marcus Williams rode for Exeter. Ross used "Ross", so that doesn't count. Sorry...

He did get his name in the history books, though!

As I said, I was looking at Roger's transition to BL. Here are the BL figures for both, and Gordon was a year ahead, so I'll do a direct comparison. Gordon posted a sub-6.00 average during his first three seasons of BL racing; Roger posted a sub-6.00 average in his first SEVEN seasons of BL racing. In his fifth season, Gordon went up nearly a point to 7; Roger dropped over a point to 4.4. Following year, Gordon put over a point on his average, while Roger continued to drop (to below ). That's why he didn't appear (to me) to be going anywhere. 1970 1971 Gordon : 2.33 Roger : 2.00 1971 1972 Gordon : 3.45 Roger : 4.31 1972 1973 Gordon : 3.73 Roger : 4.36 1973 1974 Gordon : 6.42 Roger : 5.45 1974 1975 Gordon : 7.32 Roger : 4.40 1975 1976 Gordon : 8.41 Roger : 3.91 1976 1977 Gordon : 9.69 Roger : 5.46 1977 1978 Gordon : 10.41 Roger : 7.82 1978 1979 Gordon : 9.52 Roger : 7.89 1979 1980 Gordon : 9.91 Roger : 8.22

Moggo? Yeah, maybe out of his depth at Plough Lane, but he was just a kid thrown in at the deep end. However, he had an immediate impact when he joined Crayford the following year, so it's not like he was a zero for long! I certainly never felt like he wasn't going to make it...

Yeah, Roger was a "big" signing, but never really got anywhere for a few seasons. In his first year at Plough Lane, he did okay, average over five points a meeting, but went backwards over the next couple of years. He averaged less than four in 1976, and considering his experience, that was very poor. Suddenly, things changed! I was there for for Kelvin's first meeting, and yes, he looked great! It was also a shame that he got whacked by Preben Eriksen... As you say, we had a habit of throwing in youngsters to keep under the limit. The best two were Brewer and Pleece. Jay SHOULD have done better, I feel, but never progressed at all. Dave Brewer actually did, and was doing fine at Exeter. I was talking to Dave online a few months ago, and he said it he said it was an injury that stopped him. I think it was a leg injury, and he just wasn't able to bounce back from it, and he retired. He was never going to be a world-beater, but he could have had a decent career. Another couple who were never going to make it were Martyn Charles (before your time, probably) and Mark Fordham.