chunky

Oops, you're right; Tony qualified for Gothenburg in 1971, but didn't ride. I'll edit that; thanks. The only one on that list I never saw was Friedek.

Okay, time for the latest update. Here are all the former World Finalists born in the 1940's and 50's, including an addition (in bold) to my previous list. What scared me was the fact that I've gone through the 1980's now - and it's incredible to see how many riders who rode in World Finals in the 80's are no longer with us. Toni Kasper, Roman Matousek, Vaclav Verner, Kenny Carter, Alan Grahame, Billy Sanders, Kelly Moran, Simon Wigg, Zenon Plech, Edward Jancarz, and two non-riding reserves, Emil Sova and Henryk Olszak. To me, the 1980's seems like yesterday... Bengt Jansson - 09/01/1943 Anders Michanek - 30/05/1943Trevor Hedge - 30/08/1943Terry Betts - 15/09/1943Howard Cole 29/12/1943Martin Ashby - 05/02/1944Jan Simensen - 26/07/1944Zygfryd Friedek - 19/10/1944Jerzy Trzeszkowski - 10/01/1945Eric Boocock - 02/02/1945John Boulger - 18/06/1945Hasse Holmqvist - 18/06/1945Jim McMillan - 03/12/1945Soren Karlsson - 23/10/1946Ole Olsen - 16/11/1946Ray Wilson - 12/03/1947Doug Wyer - 16/08/1947 Grigori Khlinovsky - 11/11/1947Egon Muller - 26/11/1948Christoph Betzl - 13/02/1949Jiri Stancl - 18/11/1949Viktor Kuznetsov - 27/11/1949 Georg Hack - 20/02/1950 Marek Cieslak - 28/06/1950 Alois Wiesbock - 31/07/1950 Tommy Johansson - 21/10/1950 Vladimir Gordeev - 30/11/1950 John Titman - 26/01/1951 Dag Lovaas - 25/02/1951 Jan Verner - 03/03/1951 Petr Ondrasik - 08/10/1951 Phil Crump - 09/02/1952 Henny Kroeze - 11/03/1952 Valery Gordeev - 28/08/1952 Dave Jessup - 07/03/1953 Ales Dryml - 10/06/1953 Scott Autrey - 09/07/1953 Gordon Kennett - 02/09/1953 Robert Slabon - 15/09/1953 Peter Collins - 24/03/1954 Larry Ross - 15/06/1954 John Davis - 10/11/1954 Finn Thomsen - 16/02/1955 Mikhail Starostin - 24/02/1955 Tommy Nilsson - 10/03/1955 Jan Andersson - 07/05/1955 Kai Niemi - 15/09/1955 Jerzy Rembas - 18/04/1956 Chris Morton - 22/07/1956 Steve Bastable - 16/09/1956 Bruce Penhall - 10/05/1957 Karl Maier - 24/08/1957 Roman Jankowski - 05/10/1957 Bo Petersen - 21/02/1958 Les Collins - 24/05/1958 Mitch Shirra - 27/09/1958 Michael Lee - 11/12/1958 John Cook - 18/12/1958 Dennis Sigalos - 16/08/1959 Erik Gundersen - 08/10/1959 Hans Nielsen - 26/12/1959

Agree 100%! When I watch vids on YouTube, it's amazing just how poor the racing was generally. As I've said before, I miss dirt on tracks, black leathers, monkey masks, gleaming chrome machinery etc (which all helped make it the spectacle it was), but the actual quality of racing today is often far superior.

Thing is, the reserve list is probably the one thing that illustrates the fact that we pretty much have all the top riders in the GP's. Is there REALLY that big a gulf between the top guys and the rest? Apparently... Then again, most of us felt that neither Lambert or Bewley were true GP quality yet, and looked what happened there!

That's the way I see it. People just have to realise that they are a guide - nothing else...

Exactly... We have to go by FACTS, not by "What ifs?" How many times have I said that? Agree 100%. As I said, the only way that averages and statistics would be anywhere close to perfect is if every rider rode to their average - which we know will never happen. Some will go up, and some will go down, and you have no idea who is going to be in which group. Welcome to life...

The trouble with averages and figures, they DO tell you the truth. However, they don't tell you the STORY behind the truth. Like who finished top of the 1973 British League Division 1 averages? It was Alan Emmett, with an average of 12.00... Trying to equal out team strengths by averages is great in theory. The big issue with theories is that they are just that - theories...

Sorry, the world has changed...

Nothing confrontational about it! I'm just responding with my view; perhaps you'd rather people not do that?

No it's not. The top riders QUALIFY for the following year's series by proving themselves against the world's top riders over a whole season. That is not "selection"... The wildcards generally ensure that most of the world's best riders are involved.

That's right; let's punish people for being successful! Sounds like a good plan.

Oh no, I never thought you were!

I rate Fricke, but he seemed to tail off at the end of the season, as did Holder. I still feel they both have the ability and potential. We've heard rumors about Sayfutdinov retiring, but Laguta would obviously strengthen the field. I am not convinced that Kubera et all would strengthen it - yet.

Would you rather have a bunch of hand-picked "entertainers" to vie for an "official" World Championship, or 13/14 of the World's top 15 riders?

As I said, he is clearly still one of the Top 15 riders in the world, and as you say, he knows how to match - and beat - Zmarzlik.

Particularly as you get older... Thing is, people say about Vaculik and Thomsen getting wild cards because of their injuries, but what about Woffinden? Granted, he didn't miss full meetings, but he was unfit at Cardiff, and missed a couple of rides. If it hadn't been for that, HE could have made top 6!

You sound like me...

I have said before that I liked the World Finals. However, it was the most flawed system possible; we just didn't realise it because we didn't know anything else Do you really want to go back to a system that was never designed to qualify the best riders in the world? Where qualification was based more on nationality than ability? Where everybody rode in a different amount of meetings? Where a couple of good rides could make you the "best rider in the world"? It did seem more enjoyable back then, but when you look at old videos from back in the day, the racing was generally no better than what we see today.

I'm beginning to realise that "speedway fans" actually aren't interested in "speedway". They just want everything their way - the way it was 60 years ago...

I didn't have immediate access to all the countback details, but I had the current standings open. It didn't take me much thought to figure out that Janowski making the final gave him third. He was 11 points behind Lambert, and the final guaranteed him 14. Really not as difficult as some would have you believe... I guess it doesn't matter what points system you use - if you can't count...

Is he one of the World's Top 15 riders? If so, then I would say "yes"...

Thing is, countback is used in many sports these days, and particularly over a full season of events, it's pretty easy to do - and fair. It's not like the old days where you could blame one E/F or tapes exclusion - when you have a MINIMUM of fifty rides a season.

Shouldn't even need that. The commentators SHOULD have access to tablets (or something similar) which are updated as you go. We have technology, so use it...

You have to realise that EVERYTHING on TV is planned and "scripted". It just falls down when the boys behind the scenes don't communicate everything.

Oh, I agree 100% - and that stuff should be available instantly.