chunky

I cannot argue that point, but again, that could well be a reflection of the way the sport itself has changed, rather than it being a simple drop in the quality of the competition. If it were two-valves on cinder tracks, I don't think Greg would be in contention, but modern day speedway is more akin to road-racing than dirt-track racing. Still, it is all conjecture... Steve

You beat me to it... As much as I don't like the guy, it is difficult to argue with the eighth best record of all-time. Not like it's a one-off, is it? Again, it's all conjecture. I agree with Nygren when he says he doesn't feel the riders have the same skills as those in previous eras, due to the changes in machinery and track surfaces, but as has been said before, the top riders would have stood out in any era. Steve

Don't forget, he had a terrible year last year too, finishing W - A - Y down the list - in second. It's clear he is now out of his depth... Steve

Thank you for your comment! In addition to "helping" team-mates in individual competition, that Mauger incident is one that has always stuck in my memory. People seem to pick and choose what is and what isn't acceptable... Honestly, I don't feel that "helping" a team-mate is the same as "rigging" races. Obviously, the Penhall incident is still fresh in the minds of many, but everyone seems to have forgotten - or have chosen to ignore - the sight of Olsen waving Gundersen back to allow Bo Petersen to qualify for a run-off against PC and Andy Grahame... Steve

So, it IS okay to do that, then? Just make sure you don't get caught!!! Steve

Assuming you are talking about the infamous incident at White City, then you must also feel the same way about Olsen, Gundersen, Mauger, Betts, and countless other riders who have done exactly the same thing? You do raise some interesting points. I am not sure if there has been a lack of genuine world-class riders, or perhaps a lot of us are just living in the past? When we think of "superstars", it is easy to come up with Moore, Fundin, Nielsen, Collins, Mauger, Penhall etc, but it does seem that we are reluctant - VERY reluctant - to accept that some of the modern era riders are the equivalent. I do accept your point about the consistency, but is that because the riders aren't as good, or is it that there are so many at the same level? Of course, it could be - and this is my own personal feeling - that the tracks and the machinery have a much bigger impact than we really want to believe. Steve

If you are asking, "Does his behaviour negate his ability and achievements?", then the answer is a resounding "NO"! No matter how hard you try, Penhall proved himself on the track. Same with Carter. Most of us know that there are those out there who want his name expunged from speedway history. Tough. What he did was wrong, very wrong, but his record on the track speaks for itself. I really don't understand why people get so butthurt when somebody has the audacity to use logic, reason, and FACT to substantiate their position. You admit yourself that Carter was brilliant, but cannot bring yourself to say the same about Penhall? So, are you saying that it is okay to murder your wife and still be rated as a speedway great, but to retire mid-season to take up other employment is absolutely unforgivable? Steve

So was Penhall... Better than the riders you rated above him... But it has been stated on the BSF that he is not even ONE of the best Brits... Steve

Same thing... People don't rate Tai - and disregard his ability AND achievements - because they don't like him. You disregard Penhall's ability AND his achievements because you don't like him. Yeah, nobody else has ever retired from the sport mid-season... I couldn't stand Carter, and I don't like NP either, but I can't dismiss them just because of my personal feelings. Steve

Coming from someone who doesn't rate Bruce Penhall as a great... Steve

Interesting to see all the online comments regarding Lewis Hamilton today. With a fourth World Championship under his belt (more than any other British driver), he is being lauded as an all-time great. Tai Woffinden, on the other hand, has two World Championships to his name, along with a second and a third (more than any other British rider), yet there are speedway fans who don't even consider him even ONE of the best Brits. Sigh... Steve

Not at the top of the list, I know, but Johnsy deserves a mention for 16 years at Plough Lane. However, I know not every season was "full-time", but Thommo appeared for Hackney in 20 consecutive seasons. Steve

Good call, norbold! Regarding Phil Bishop, his is one of my most prized autographs. I met him at Plough Lane not long before Lokeren... Steve

Arthur Atkinson rode in 1928, and was still riding in 1953. Steve

It was post-WWI...😜 Steve

I haven't been able to find any specifics so far. It was stated on the Exeter County Ground Years website, and I believe Tony Lethbridge could have been the source of that information. If anyone is able to confirm that? Steve

I think he rode on a German licence, same as Marvyn Cox. This is why it gets interesting, because the span of a career can be very different to the actual seasons ridden - particularly when it comes to British league racing. Steve

Thing is, Doug, Bob didn't mention "British" leagues"! With Nygren's league career, he did have extra years outside of his British league career. Of course, that doesn't apply to Americans or Sissies, so yes, Hancock's inclusion is a little vague. As I said, I didn't include his youth career (which would have added about eight years), but he has been riding league outside of the UK. I am sure there are a few Europeans who would also qualify for this thread. Steve

Well, I did say that it wasn't ALL league action (Hancock). I also said "continuous", which rules out your favourite poster's input with Mr Morton, as well as Simmo! Also, I didn't include Hancock's youth racing career! As far as Squibby, I thought it was worth mentioning that his career started before the war, and of course, even though league action in Britain was halted during the war, it is quite possible that he did ride in odd meetings (perhaps grass-track) during that period. So, who else could be fitted into this elite group? Steve

Squibby actually started his career before the war, but looks to have had the longest continuous career, with a total of 37 seasons. I know there are others, and not all of these were racing leagues, but here are some of the front-runners. Jimmy Squibb 37 (1939-1975) Olle Nygren 32 (1948-1979) Greg Hancock 31 (1987-2017) Neil Collins 29 (1978-2006) Les Collins 28 (1975-2002) Ken McKinlay 28 (1948-1975) Malcolm Simmons 27 (1963-1989) Alan Mogridge 26 (1981-2006) Steve

The mid-70's really was a bad period for them. Considering how many good Swedes there were at the start at the decade, it was incredible how they failed to build on that. It wasn't long before we we lost Fundin and Nordin (and Nygren was on a rapid decline), although we did see the emergence of Christer Lofqvist and Tommy Jansson. Of course, they were both struck down tragically early in their careers, and by that time, Michanek, Persson, Bengt Jansson, and Soren Sjosten were all fading. In those two sentences alone, that is a lot of talent to lose in a relatively short period. Jan Simensen was good - although not a world-beater - but he wasn't around long. Had Tommy Johansson and Tommy Nilsson committed to BL racing a little more, they could have perhaps sparked something of a revival, but realistically, Jan Andersson and Richard Hellsen were the two outstanding Swedes to emerge from the 70's. The Christer Sjosten tragedy pretty much sealed a bad few years, but that was followed just four years later by Leif Wahlmann. I was there that night, and it happened right in front of me... We all know speedway goes in cycles, and when Per Jonsson and Jimmy Nilsen came along, they were followed by Rickardsson, the Karlssons, Gustafsson, Jonsson, and a host of others. Steve

I have been saying this for years. It's fine having a points limit - providing it is a realistic limit! Yes, it is - or should be - designed to prevent teams from becoming "over-strong", but all it does now is force out riders for being "too good", and reduce teams (and leagues) to a level of mediocrity. I remember back in the 80's, Andy Grahame was forced out of his team (Oxford, I think) because his average was too high. However, no other BL team could fit him in because his average was too high, and his assessed average was too high to allow him to go NL! Yes, they did resolve the situation, but how is forcing riders out of the sport productive in any shape or form? The idea should not be to weaken the stronger teams (particularly if riders have had the audacity to actually improve during a season), but to help weaker sides come up to the appropriate standard. Steve

Thing is, when we talk about "entertainment", "quality of the product", and "value for money", I don't believe that has anything to do with the standard of rider. The GP's clearly have the world's best riders, but in recent weeks we have apparently (I can't comment myself as I didn't see them) had a couple of very poor meetings. Yes, it is nice to see the top names, but they themselves cannot guarantee close racing, excitement, great atmosphere, and overall quality of product. There is a lot more to it than that, and that is why the overall value for money is so important. Steve

Funny thing is, I honestly don't think that speedway is "too" expensive, per se, BUT it really doesn't seem value for money. It's not that the prices need to come down (then the sport REALLY wouldn't survive), but they really need to work on giving real value for money. As I keep saying, it doesn't matter how cheap it is - or even if it is free - if the quality and entertainment value is not there, people won't go.. Steve

You lot should try being a Brit in the States! Everyone here thinks that they can do an English accent, but I really don't sound like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins! Steve