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Everything posted by chunky
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Swedish GP 2018 Hallstavik
chunky replied to Ghostwalker's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Here we go.. Sigh... Steve -
Swedish GP 2018 Hallstavik
chunky replied to Ghostwalker's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
If people are in the series on merit (qualifying by right), nobody should dismiss their efforts. And that also includes Cook. Steve -
Swedish GP 2018 Hallstavik
chunky replied to Ghostwalker's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Who was that in white, and what did he do with Cook??? Steve -
Swedish GP 2018 Hallstavik
chunky replied to Ghostwalker's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
From the GP website. You have to sign up for an account, but it is free. Steve -
The continuing decline of Speedway
chunky replied to wealdstone's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Funny, isn't it? The BSF used to be full of people complaining that the lack of great racing is killing the sport, and how much better the racing USED to be. Now, thanks to videos which dispel all those misconceptions, it is amazing to realise the truth, and the racing really WASN'T better back then. Even to watch live streams from thousands of miles away, the lack of atmosphere - and people - is so evident. Being at Wembley on World Final night. or standing on the pit bend at Plough Lane mocking the 'ackney fans, it really is the people who made the difference. Sigh... Steve -
The continuing decline of Speedway
chunky replied to wealdstone's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
How long have I been saying that??? Steve -
The continuing decline of Speedway
chunky replied to wealdstone's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
I know what you are trying to say, but it is "grass-track", not speedway. Even though a fair few riders who do both, they are two different sports, at totally different venues, with totally different fans. On here, you see many complaints that the Speedway Star "includes grass-track". To me, they are close enough to warrant grass-track news in speedway mags, but they are not the same sport. I am also aware that grass-track has taken a nose-dive in the UK too, which actually surprises me. One of the things that fans - including myself - loved about grass-track was the access we had to the riders and their machines. I maintain that one of the best ways to attract new fans to the sport is for them to get close to the machinery and the riders. A few years ago, there was a general motorsports event up in Minnesota, and I went up there with former Workington rider James Mann, who was giving a speedway display with a couple of others. As it was, the meeting was rained off (yeah, 1300 mile round trip for a rain-off...), but in the short time we were there, everybody was so fascinated by the bikes. That's why I love the ideas of riders taking bikes to schools. Yes, I was suggesting that something drastic needs to happen, but you and I both know that we aren't going to find "serious financial backing". That is why we have to cut costs. I just don't know what we can actually get away with. The SGP was innovative thinking, but at that time, the sport as a whole was relatively healthy. We are now talking about something to heal British speedway only, but the fact that British speedway is now on life-support makes it an extremely delicate situation. Just sitting here making suggestions - and waiting for some major sponsor to simply dump a ton of cash into the sport - isn't going to achieve anything. Even if we did find someone with money, five years down the road we will be sitting here replicating these threads, except that the crowds will be down to the 100-150 mark. We NEED to change/update the product, and the way it is displayed. Steve -
The continuing decline of Speedway
chunky replied to wealdstone's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
God, this forum is so bloody depressing... Like many other posters, I have spent a lifetime following the sport. My parents met at Plough Lane, and I first attended when I was three weeks old. No, I don't go now, but that is because I live 3000 miles away. Since my dad passed away in 2003, my trips to the UK - particularly during the speedway season - have become exceedingly rare. As a result of recent events, I too am genuinely worried for the future of speedway in the UK. The problem with this forum - and yes, I have said this before - is that so many of the so-called "experts" still aren't looking at the big picture; they can't see past their own personal desires for themselves or their teams. The single most important issue is that the sport is not viable for the promotions, the riders, or the fans. We have to change that, and quickly. Tweaking silly rules and policies will do absolutely nothing; it needs a complete overhaul - from the bottom up. We have to stop arguing about FRN's, team strengths, and how many leagues we have. We have to forget about getting the top stars back, or stepping on the toes of the Poles or Swedes. We just have to do whatever it takes to ensure that British speedway - in some form - can survive. Of course, people compare today to the 50's, but they are so totally different it is unbelievable. Okay, we dropped to a handful of teams, but we still had thousands upon thousands of people who wanted to watch speedway. We had numerous stadia that were not only capable of staging speedway - but WANTED to. We had promoters who wanted to PROMOTE. You know, in my own sport of darts, we have gone through some ups and downs in the last 30 years, but look at it now. I used to think darts and speedway were very similar, and both suffered similar issues - including shooting ourselves in the foot! What kept darts going was that there was always a grass roots level, with thousands of players competing in local leagues and small tournaments. Also, even though a lot of pubs have closed, there are still plenty of places to play. Speedway doesn't have either of those. There is no grass-roots level with thousands of participants, and there are just a small handful of venues. How we get round those, I have no idea. Neither do I have any idea how we address the viability issue on a LOCAL level, let alone a national level. This truly is killing me... Steve -
He doesn't say that GP riders should "be done away with", he says that we "don't need" GP riders; two very different statements. Others have mentioned on here that riders of a similar standard can provide excellent racing, which is true. You don't "need" GP riders to provide good racing. Steve
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More to the point, it can safely be claimed that rarely - if ever - the old World Championship was even designed to provide the best 15 riders in the world. For example, qualifying five World Finalists from the Continental Final, while genuine contenders were being eliminated at the Inter-Continental, Overseas, or even British Final stage... Steve
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Thing is, speedway sold itself because of the sport as a whole, which includes the racing, the crowds and the atmosphere. Of course, much of that was down to TV. However, in the 1950's, speedway riders were literally household names, with Tommy Price, Jack Young, Ronnie Moore etc being used to advertise everyday products, in particular, cigarettes. Even though PC was "well-known", many people would still hark back to Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, and even Peter Craven from the previous decade. Speedway was still a hugely popular spectator sport in the 70's, but the profile of individual riders was already well on the decline. What we need now is to improve the product instead of using one superbly talented individual to highlight an incredibly sub-standard product. I fear that, at the moment, promoting what is happening in Britain would only add a few nails to the coffin lid... Steve
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Spot on. Yes, it is nice to have to have "superstars", and they obviously draw the crowds. However, these days - certainly in the UK - the cannot draw sufficient crowds to warrant their inclusion. How many times has it been said on here that speedway is "four blokes racing motorbikes"? However much some don't want to believe it, that is true; it is not about ONE "superstar" showing up. It saddens me to hear those who say, "To me, it's all about the top guys. Second strings and reserves aren't important, and neither are the lower divisions." The top boys only represent - and have historically only represented - the top 5% or so of the sport. We can lose the top 5% - and of course, we pretty much have done - and the sport will survive. Lose the other 95%, and we are done... Whether we like it or not, speedway can be very exciting and entertaining WITHOUT that 5%, but the important thing is that we run a sensible and VIABLE sport. Steve
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I have said before that when Tai is on form - whether it is cruising at the front, or fighting his way through the field - I don't think I have seen ANYBODY looking as good on a bike. It really does look like he is riding on rails. As far as being used to promote British speedway, I really don't think that has been done since the days of the early 50's when speedway was visible in day-to-day advertising. Thing is, while they can promote a rider (or riders) to push British speedway, I don't think it is the responsibility of the authorities to do that. Okay, the World Cup is going on right now, and the country is going crazy because England actually have a chance - however minimal you may feel - of achieving something. Having said that, the FA is not pushing Harry Kane. Nor have you seen the governing bodies of other sports using Carl Fogarty, Ian Botham, Linford Christie etc to promote their respective sports. The role of a governing body is to govern, although those in speedway seem to have problems simply doing that... Steve
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There are many outlets today for individuals and organizations to air their views, particularly via social media and fora such as the BSF. We also see regular comments regarding the "right" to say what you want, that "free speech" is absolute. Unfortunately, that is NOT correct. The origins of "free speech", particularly in the Western world, stem from the fact that comments and views regarding authorities and authority figures (most notably national governments) can be made without fear of reprisal and prosecution. HOWEVER, please be aware that the concept of "free speech" is not absolute. There are laws regarding slander, libel, and defamation of character, and - in these troubled times - HATE SPEECH. In other words, you do NOT have the right to make false, accusatory, and hateful / bigoted statements, either verbally or in writing. No, I am not aiming this at any individuals in particular, or any posts in particular, but I just wish to remind you all that not everything you believe to be a "right" is indeed a right. Steve
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Following on from my earlier post, I would just like to elaborate a little. There ARE a number of posters on here who make intelligent and balanced posts, but they too are often shot down because someone didn't didn't agree with them; that is where the problem lay. Now, with reference to Phil's comment about Polish speedway benefiting from clubs being in towns where speedway is the major attraction; the fact remains that they are "in town". I have said before that in Britain, speedway grew as a "city-centre sport". Because of a number of factors - in particular, the Great British NIMBY - we have been forced into rural areas, where people aren't exposed to speedway. Of course, we have always had rural tracks, but look at it now. Not one track in London. During my lifetime, we have lost Norwich, Exeter, Bradford, Cradley, Bristol, Hull etc... These were all in urban areas, and easily accessible. Not only were they accessible, they were VISIBLE to anyone who passed by the place! To me, it is incredible - and incredibly sad - that the vast majority of people now have never even heard of speedway, let alone know what it is. Back in the day, as popular as speedway was, we still attracted a very small percentage of the population - but nearly everybody knew what it was! We used to complain when people said they didn't go because speedway was "first out of the gate wins". Today, it's a struggle to find somebody who knows we have a ruddy gate! I know we all feel that the modern sport is "watered down". Yes, I used to love seeing the big stars, but you know what? It is speedway RACING, and as long as there was some decent racing, I was happy. Steve
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I still don't understand all the "experts" on here who claim to have THE solution to British speedway's problems. There is no SINGLE cause, and there is no SINGLE solution. As far as fans wanting a fixed race night - which again, they wanted largely because it suited THEM - I was always against the idea. My main concerns were that : 1) The lost revenue because of the large number of fans who travelled as neutrals to meetings several times a week. 2) Because of the majority of clubs not owning their own stadium, it was always going to be difficult for some to fall in line. 3) The switch from being a weekend track to a midweek one was ALWAYS going to be a financial disaster for certain clubs. Again, the post above suggesting that speedway is a "£10 sport" is way off the mark. I - and others - have repeatedly stated that, while the cost MAY be prohibitive for some (particularly those with families), that is a relatively minor issue. The REAL issue here is the quality of product, and yes, that does include the value for money. The thing to remember is that IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW CHEAP A PRODUCT IS, IF THE PRODUCT ISN'T GOOD PEOPLE WON'T GO!. The comments posted on other threads reiterate the facts about tracks opening the season with a meeting free of charge; very few - if any - new fans would return the following week, EVEN IF IT WAS FREE. It hurts me to see Rye folding, as it was one of those tracks I would often visit as a neutral. As has been mentioned, moving away from Sunday was never going to solve anything. As was said elsewhere, speedway doesn't seem to catch the imagination of the British public these days, and nobody seems to be able to come up with a solution for that. Don't worry, I have no idea either... The thing is, everybody wants to blame everybody else, but then, lack of accountability is commonplace these days. Of course, the authorities have a lot to answer for, and the promoters themselves must shoulder a lot of the blame. Not that I have any personal knowledge, but to see that so many promoters seem to think "everything is rosy" is astounding. I do feel for them as most are gambling with their own money, but that should be more incentive for them to get their houses in order. The riders too could help. Yes, they DO deserve good pay, but I am tired of hearing how they "put their lives on the line for OUR benefit". It is their chosen job, and I understand why they ride abroad to make more money, and NOBODY should criticise them for wanting to do the best for themselves and their families. However, as is frequently stated, it seems like every rider - however mediocre - seems to believe that they have the "right" to be a full-time speedway rider. If the money is physically not there, then don't expect to get everything you want! If you need to get another job, oh well... Now, the fans... Yes, the fans believe they know everything, but it is incredible how many THINK that they have a solution, yet don't even consider the practicality and viability of their ideas. In many cases, they don't look at the big picture, just what suits THEM, or THEIR TEAM. Sometimes - a lot of the time, actually - a seemingly nonsensical idea is dismissed when the reality is that discussion of the basic idea can actually be fruitful. I am heavily involved in sports administration, and I am used to hearing crazy stuff that the so-called experts demand. However, I study the overall concept, and see if it can actually be modified in order to improve matters. The problem with British speedway is that nobody - fans, riders, or authorities - are willing to engage in sensible discussion. Everything - as is often seen on the BSF - just descends into totally useless dismissal, accusations and name-calling. I love the sport, and I hate to see what is happening... Steve
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The continuing decline of Speedway
chunky replied to wealdstone's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
I was on that coach! Only time I ever went to Hull... Midweek tracks were always difficult, although I was a regular on the coaches to the British Final. Steve -
World Championship Pairs
chunky replied to Mark's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Tell you what, they should just make it 3 for first, and no other points! GB would have won that way, and the strategy in the final would have been justified! Steve -
I do have a good memory, but it's a lot easier than that! We all know about the Speedway Researcher website, but for things like things, Brian Collins' International Speedway site is also incredible. For those who aren't familiar with the site, it is based on official international competitions, which includes Test Matches! Steve
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Probably the 4th Test in 1967, which the Poles won 55-53. Eric Boocock scored an 18 point max, Pogo was joint top scorer for Poland with 14 (as was Toni Woryna), and Migos picked up 6+4 from the reserve berth. Steve
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World Championship Pairs
chunky replied to Mark's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
There have always been idiots on here, and idiotic posts. However, this one thread probably has claim to the top 10 - at least - dumbest posts of all time... Steve -
World Championship Pairs
chunky replied to Mark's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
At least that would have been something in OUR control, and not relying on someone/something else... Steve