chunky

It is unlikely that you will ever get the complete Top 16, but the opportunities are at least there! Steve

I'm pretty sure that was at least a big part of it, combined with the fact that speedway was already going out of fashion... Steve

Actually, it doesn't. The Eastern Bloc qualifiers guaranteed that a certain number (usually five) of Eastern Europeans (including some who weren't World-Final standard) would be riding in a World Final. The current GP system provides opportunities for EVERYONE to qualify via the same channels (GP, and GP Challenge). The wild cards are generally riders who are considered worthy of a place in the GP's, particularly those who deprived of a spot by misfortune (eg Dudek, Vaculik, and Zagar). They are not riders who are in purely based on the fact that they live in Eastern Europe, but that they lost their places because of injury. So, instead of basically preventing riders from qualifying, it is a second chance for riders who were unlucky. It must be true that Madsen is in because of nationality, but according to everyone (I really don't know much about him), he is more than worthy of a place. I would still have gone for Pedersen instead (and I don't like the guy), but although he may be past his best, he can still compete on the day (as we have seen), and he does add something (unlike some of the Continental qualifiers in the 70's and 80's). Steve

I get your point regarding the wild cards, but in the old days, look at this. Two Americans qualified from the American Final, when at least five of them would have qualified for the world final had they been allowed to! Same with qualifiers from the British Final. Qualifying opportunities for world-class riders were limited because of their nationality. Steve

Tai didn't win a world final. Yes, luck will always play a part, but it is greatly reduced with a GP system. Look at Doyle a couple of years ago. Look at it this way; Tai could have been injured, and missed the Krsko GP. He would still have won the World Championship. Had Fundin, Mauger or Collins missed a meeting because of injury, their World Championship hopes would have been ended... Does ANYONE actually know the exact level of riders in a particular league? You can only compare them against each other. Steve

Exactly. The GP qualification system is designed to find the best riders, regardless of what nationality they are. The old system wasn't, so that is a FACT. Making a mistake, or suffering bad luck, in one of five rides could prove costly, not just as far as winning a title, but even qualifying. Having a minimum of 50 rides drastically reduces the luck aspect, which means that ability and consistency is more likely to be rewarded. Another FACT. Okay, you may not like that, but is it better to be fair to the competitors, or is it better to make it more unpredictable because a few fans want it. As someone who has been involved in competitive/professional sport for most of my life, I can tell you that virtually every serious competitor prefers ability and achievement to be rewarded, rather than luck playing a huge part. Steve

Of course things are average-based; that is how we "rate" riders. The point you seem to be missing is that league racing is now more "equal" than it was, with the result that more riders are at the same level. In the old days, a team invariably had three heat-leaders, two second strings, and two reserves. The real stars were 10+, regular heat leaders were 7.5-10, second strings 4-7.5, and reserves below 4. With some 130-140 riders in the league, there was greater variation in the averages. Now, with fewer than 50 riders, you don't have that variation. More riders at the same level means that the level of competition is much tougher, and fewer riders have stand-out averages. Steve

Nail on the head! It is not that riders who won DIDN'T deserve it; it is that there are riders who SHOULD have won it. People always talk about Jessup, but what about Nielsen in 93 when Ermolenko SHOULD have been excluded - no question. It is more about those who qualified for finals, rather than who won them. I liked Rembas, and he was one of the best Eastern Europeans. However, under a qualification system like we have today, he is unlikely to have been near a final, let alone in a run-off for a rostrum place. It is also about those who DIDN'T qualify for finals. Riders like Muller, Plech, Jancarz etc were worthy of a world final spot, but were they more deserving than riders who missed out from the Inter-Continental qualification? Steve

Which - in my book - is the proper way. He was one of the top three from the challenge not qualified via the GP. Not a wild card.. Steve

Do you not agree? Do you not think that the luck aspect is reduced? Do you think the old system was designed to find the best 16 riders in the world? Steve

Not noteworthy if it was to a top rider... Steve

I said I liked the finals also. However, the GP IS designed to qualify a higher quality - and more balanced - field, and DOES drastically reduce the luck aspect. FACT Steve

What the hell are you talking about? I never mentioned "pairings", and what have Wells, Brock, Sigalos, and Penhall to do with my comment? The 1970's WTC never had pairings. Peter Collins scored three consecutive maximums in WTC Finals - against the likes of of the Gordeevs and Glucklich. Michanek was the ONLY true superstar PC faced in those finals. Woffinden dropped just one point in the SoN Final this year, and beat the likes of Laguta, Sayfutdinov, and Janowski. No disrespect to the Gordeevs and Glucklich, but they were nowhere near the standard of Laguta, Sayfutdinov, or Janowski. Therefore, while PC was a superb rider, and three gold medals and maximums in WTC Finals was an achievement, Tai's performance in Wroclaw (over a similar number of rides) MUST be considered far superior. Please try to stay relevant to the discussion... Steve

This thread is not called "Colin Mills prefers..."! I "preferred" the 1970's WTC, but most of the time, GB/England didn't have too much opposition. Therefore, you can't claim that Collins scoring maximums against the Gordeevs and Glucklich was as impressive as Woffinden beating Laguta, Sayfutdinov, and Janowski... Steve

I think I know this one! 1976 World Final! Oh, and r/u the following year... He was part of a "team" that won events against such powerhouse teams as Poland and the Soviet Union... Steve

I think it is hilarious how people claim that "speedway" is so different today, and how you "can't compare riders of different generations". They then compare Woffinden against a handful of riders from last century - like pre-Woffy days were a single generation! Why is it okay to compare Rickardsson to Fundin forty years apart) but you can't compare Woffinden to Collins? All that the "good ol' days" brigade is doing is comparing the 2010's to the complete first 80 years of the sport! Speedway has constantly evolved (okay, British speedway has DEvolved), but most seem content to classify it as "now" and "everything before now". Fundin and Briggs claimed multiple world titles in one generation. Mauger claimed his in another. Nielsen and Gundersen were a later generation. Then there was Rickardsson. Then there was Crump and Pedersen. Then there was Woffinden. Why is it okay for everybody else to be classed as "greats" when they are all from different generations, but it is unacceptable to include Woffinden - even against Brits who never came close to doing what he has done? Steve

That's not totally surprising, although - as I said - it did seem a strange situation with Madsen; just didn't know what or who to believe! Steve

What about the THREE nights of drama we have had since Tai's exclusion in Krsko??? Of course, it is so tedious to sit through all those nights with Woffinden, Zmarzlik, Doyle, Pedersen, Lindgren, Janowski... Steve

And how many meetings and rides did Szczakiel need to become World Champion? And how many meetings and rides did Michanek need to become World Champion? Don't forget the home-track advantage for Van Praag, Price, and Williams... To win a GP series, you really have to earn it, and you don't lose it because of a single minor e/f... I love the way people complain about the top 8 qualifying for the next year's series, but it was okay for the top 11 to qualify from the Inter-Continental Final... Steve

Same with the Russians in ice-racing... Steve

Dudek - obviously... Vaculik - deserves one after a troubled, but not totally unsuccessful year. Pedersen - not great this year, but can still be better than the rest. I am not a fan, but he adds to the GP's. The rest? Zagar - Like Pedersen, better than the rest, and undoubtedly would have qualified had he not missed Krsko. Madsen - still not heard any specifics, but it doesn't appear he is a candidate. Lambert - Perhaps a year early, but has the potential, I feel. Steve

The idea of a GP system us to score the most points. Tai scored more than anyone else. This also applies in most other motorsports. Yes, a rider CAN win a meeting without scoring the most points. Yes, that is an anomaly. However, a team can be league champions without winning the most matches/scoring the most points. A rider still has to score most points (or equal most and win a run-off)to win the Championship. Steve

That is true, and the important thing is that if somebody hasn't been in these situations, it is impossible to know what the participants go through. The problem is that you can't really stop things like negative thoughts or adrenaline rushes from happening; all you can learn to do is to deal with them and handle them the best you can. The more you find yourself in those situations, the better you can handle them. That is what I think Zmarzlik's downfall tonight stems from. Regarding the "watching", I hope you will appreciate my comments here. My dad was one of the top players in the 70's, and I know what I went through watching him. He didn't get it, until he started watching me in major tournaments! Steve

As with any GP system or league format, the winner is the one with the most points... Steve

Every GP has a local "wild card". However, those wild cards can not become World Champion. Steve