chunky

No, 'cos Mauger isn't relevant to this thread. He wasn't BRITISH (in all World Finals, anyway...) Steve

I'M SAYING HE IS YOUNGER!!! FACT!!! Steve

And he is younger than Rickardsson was when he won his third... Steve

Again, Ermolenko is the one that sticks in my mind. Olsen in 78... Steve

AGAIN, please try to stay relevant. This thread is about Tai being the best BRITISH rider ever, and you KNOW that - troll... Steve

Don't even ask, because we all know the answer to that... Steve

A few days ago, I did suggest an idea for an overhaul of the qualifying system. Because of injuries affecting qualification for the following year, I would still like at least one. However, I would like to see the GP Challenge AFTER the GP's have finished (maybe at the start of the following season, in order for riders to get over any injuries). Perhaps the Challenge would include the riders who finished 9-12 in the previous year's GP's; kind of a repechage. At least they would have a chance to qualify "by right". Steve

It amazes me how short-sighted people are when they say, "Oh, it's a lot easier to win this way blah, blah, blah.." or it was "More difficult in those days blah blah blah..." If it is "easier for Tai", then it is EASIER FOR EVERYONE! If it was "More difficult back then" then it was MORE DIFFICULT FOR EVERYONE BACK THEN! Whatever system/format is used, ALL riders go into it with the same chances! They ALL know the format, but like it or loathe it, it is the same for everyone! Jeez... Steve

Which is completely irrelevant... Steve

I agree. As I said, though, I believe that he is still worthy of a place; certainly more of a contender than a couple of the riders this year. Having said that, if a rider qualifies by right, then good luck to them! Steve

It is unlikely that you will ever get the complete Top 16, but the opportunities are at least there! Steve

I'm pretty sure that was at least a big part of it, combined with the fact that speedway was already going out of fashion... Steve

Actually, it doesn't. The Eastern Bloc qualifiers guaranteed that a certain number (usually five) of Eastern Europeans (including some who weren't World-Final standard) would be riding in a World Final. The current GP system provides opportunities for EVERYONE to qualify via the same channels (GP, and GP Challenge). The wild cards are generally riders who are considered worthy of a place in the GP's, particularly those who deprived of a spot by misfortune (eg Dudek, Vaculik, and Zagar). They are not riders who are in purely based on the fact that they live in Eastern Europe, but that they lost their places because of injury. So, instead of basically preventing riders from qualifying, it is a second chance for riders who were unlucky. It must be true that Madsen is in because of nationality, but according to everyone (I really don't know much about him), he is more than worthy of a place. I would still have gone for Pedersen instead (and I don't like the guy), but although he may be past his best, he can still compete on the day (as we have seen), and he does add something (unlike some of the Continental qualifiers in the 70's and 80's). Steve

I get your point regarding the wild cards, but in the old days, look at this. Two Americans qualified from the American Final, when at least five of them would have qualified for the world final had they been allowed to! Same with qualifiers from the British Final. Qualifying opportunities for world-class riders were limited because of their nationality. Steve

Tai didn't win a world final. Yes, luck will always play a part, but it is greatly reduced with a GP system. Look at Doyle a couple of years ago. Look at it this way; Tai could have been injured, and missed the Krsko GP. He would still have won the World Championship. Had Fundin, Mauger or Collins missed a meeting because of injury, their World Championship hopes would have been ended... Does ANYONE actually know the exact level of riders in a particular league? You can only compare them against each other. Steve

Exactly. The GP qualification system is designed to find the best riders, regardless of what nationality they are. The old system wasn't, so that is a FACT. Making a mistake, or suffering bad luck, in one of five rides could prove costly, not just as far as winning a title, but even qualifying. Having a minimum of 50 rides drastically reduces the luck aspect, which means that ability and consistency is more likely to be rewarded. Another FACT. Okay, you may not like that, but is it better to be fair to the competitors, or is it better to make it more unpredictable because a few fans want it. As someone who has been involved in competitive/professional sport for most of my life, I can tell you that virtually every serious competitor prefers ability and achievement to be rewarded, rather than luck playing a huge part. Steve

Of course things are average-based; that is how we "rate" riders. The point you seem to be missing is that league racing is now more "equal" than it was, with the result that more riders are at the same level. In the old days, a team invariably had three heat-leaders, two second strings, and two reserves. The real stars were 10+, regular heat leaders were 7.5-10, second strings 4-7.5, and reserves below 4. With some 130-140 riders in the league, there was greater variation in the averages. Now, with fewer than 50 riders, you don't have that variation. More riders at the same level means that the level of competition is much tougher, and fewer riders have stand-out averages. Steve

Nail on the head! It is not that riders who won DIDN'T deserve it; it is that there are riders who SHOULD have won it. People always talk about Jessup, but what about Nielsen in 93 when Ermolenko SHOULD have been excluded - no question. It is more about those who qualified for finals, rather than who won them. I liked Rembas, and he was one of the best Eastern Europeans. However, under a qualification system like we have today, he is unlikely to have been near a final, let alone in a run-off for a rostrum place. It is also about those who DIDN'T qualify for finals. Riders like Muller, Plech, Jancarz etc were worthy of a world final spot, but were they more deserving than riders who missed out from the Inter-Continental qualification? Steve

Which - in my book - is the proper way. He was one of the top three from the challenge not qualified via the GP. Not a wild card.. Steve

Do you not agree? Do you not think that the luck aspect is reduced? Do you think the old system was designed to find the best 16 riders in the world? Steve

Not noteworthy if it was to a top rider... Steve

I said I liked the finals also. However, the GP IS designed to qualify a higher quality - and more balanced - field, and DOES drastically reduce the luck aspect. FACT Steve

What the hell are you talking about? I never mentioned "pairings", and what have Wells, Brock, Sigalos, and Penhall to do with my comment? The 1970's WTC never had pairings. Peter Collins scored three consecutive maximums in WTC Finals - against the likes of of the Gordeevs and Glucklich. Michanek was the ONLY true superstar PC faced in those finals. Woffinden dropped just one point in the SoN Final this year, and beat the likes of Laguta, Sayfutdinov, and Janowski. No disrespect to the Gordeevs and Glucklich, but they were nowhere near the standard of Laguta, Sayfutdinov, or Janowski. Therefore, while PC was a superb rider, and three gold medals and maximums in WTC Finals was an achievement, Tai's performance in Wroclaw (over a similar number of rides) MUST be considered far superior. Please try to stay relevant to the discussion... Steve

This thread is not called "Colin Mills prefers..."! I "preferred" the 1970's WTC, but most of the time, GB/England didn't have too much opposition. Therefore, you can't claim that Collins scoring maximums against the Gordeevs and Glucklich was as impressive as Woffinden beating Laguta, Sayfutdinov, and Janowski... Steve

I think I know this one! 1976 World Final! Oh, and r/u the following year... He was part of a "team" that won events against such powerhouse teams as Poland and the Soviet Union... Steve