chunky

Happy days of guests, race-fixing, and second-halfers better than a three-time World Champ... Steve

How do you do it? You talk about a specific subject - race-fixing - being a major factor in why speedway is not taken seriously. I reply DIRECTLY to your post, and what do you do? You immediately run off in a totally different direction, like a spoilt schoolgirl, hoping that nobody will notice! And you wonder why people don't take YOU seriously? Steve

Of course speedway has never been taken seriously. Talk of match-fixing in football and cricket means that they have never been taken seriously either... Steve (sorry, Sigh...)

So, it wasn't just me that was taken aback by that, then? You'll have to do without me on here for a while. I'm off to the shops to buy a box of straws just in case moxey runs out of things to grasp at... Steve

Or a team can be relegated when it has won more matches than teams who stayed up... Or in cricket, you can earn a draw by scoring fewer runs than your opponent... In darts, you can have a much higher average even though you lost the leg or match... Steve

Any time you don't have a straight "knockout" system, and rely on points accumulation, strange things can happen. Like you, I don't consider them flaws, but anomalies. As we have said though, just because things CAN happen, it doesn't mean they will! Steve

I'm NOT putting that on your shoulders. I'm NOT pointing the finger at you. What I am doing is saying that I am tired of all the negativity! Like everybody else, I like to have my moans on here - it's human nature - but I still love speedway, and believe it is worth saving. I don't just respond to every post on here with some crazy rambling negativity. Yes, there have been many mistakes made - particularly as far as British speedway is concerned - but again, I don't get your final sentence. You are seemingly washing your hands of any personal involvement in the demise of British speedway, yet the demise is largely because of people like you who stopped going because : 1) It was better in the "good 'ol days" 2) You apparently stopped going because you had to pay! Of course, we all take freebies when we can get them, but when I look back at the money I spent on speedway over the years, I am quite content with what I put into the sport. Holding season tickets, joining supporter's clubs and fan clubs, travelling to other tracks, spending money on things like photos, badges, scarves, and programme boards, eating and drinking at the tracks, contributing to fund-raisers and collections at away tracks, organizing and participating in organizing fund-raisers myself, sponsoring riders and events (I had agreed to sponsor the Tommy Jansson Memorial one year until it was cancelled at the last minute). No, I don't want to be singled out for stuff like that, because there were thousands of us who used to do that, but it makes me sick when people gloat about "saving a bomb"! I admit, because of my involvement with Sky, I used to get free entry into the live meetings when I was back in the country. However, I don't just look back and think, "I saved a bomb"... If I were still making trips to the UK during the season, you can guarantee that I would be still taking in what I could. It may not be like it was (or like you THINK it was), but it is still bloody good... Plus, thanks to live streaming, I can sit at home and watch the greatest British rider of all-time!!! Steve

So, instead of fighting for the survival of the sport we love - and have loved for years - you are simply resigned to its demise? You don't think it is worth saving? Apparently not, because the product is crap, the riders are crap, the fans are idiots? Yes, it IS people like you who are damaging the sport, with all this bloody negativity! I too am an "old fart", and yes, I DO miss the old days. However, I do realise that - whether I like it or not - those days are gone! To quote Arthur Foggen, "Then's then, and now's now". It is still a wonderful sport, and it is still (despite a lifetime of involvement in another professional sport) my FAVOURITE sport. It can still be a fantastic spectacle, and I still marvel at the exploits of great riders like Tai Woffinden. If you really DON'T like it, and you DON'T think it is worth saving, then YOU are the one who is wasting your time on here... Steve

Do you think people like us have too much time on our hands??? Steve

The lowest points total for a rostrum place was 10. Fundin finished third on 10 in 1962, and Handberg did the same 30 years later. Three interesting stats about the Handberg case. 1) He finished third on 10, WITHOUT needing a runoff. 2) Both Handberg and runner-up Jonsson were unplaced in one ride. I haven't checked, but that sounds unique. 3) Expanding on the above point, Havvy was the ONLY rider who DIDN'T record a zero in the meeting! Steve

But you didn't actually state that it could be won on 8! Some of these people need things to be spelled out to them... Like one of my fave scenarios. It is possible to win EVERY GP, and not finish in the Top 8 at the end of the season!!! Steve

Except that it didn't. He lost the title by 16 points. Had Doyle scored better in previous rounds (most notably in Warsaw and Horsens, where he scored 5 and 7 respectively), he could easily have had things wrapped up by the time he got injured. Seems a long shot, but look at the 1970 F1 season. Jochen Rindt was tragically killed at Monza, but he had already opened such a lead that nobody was able to catch him in the remaining races. When you have ONE slip-up in only five rides, there is no way back, but over a season, there are opportunities. Steve

Pretty sure that nobody has mentioned Gustafsson being joint leader after 12 heats in 1990 - and only finishing sixth... Steve

Dammit! Have to get some new glasses! Steve

Okay, 1956 final... After eight heats, Briggo and Eric Boothroyd were joint leaders on five points. Fundin (eventual winner), Moore, Forrest, Craven, and Crutcher were all on four points. Neither Briggo nor Boothroyd finished on the rostrum. Steve

Well, there have only been three 12-point winners; Young, Ermolenko, and Rickardsson. Oh, and nobody has mentioned the other well-known anomaly. Bluey Wilkinson scoring a 15 point max in the World Final, and only finishing third! Steve

Um, you have now given me a task! I love going through stats, and I hadn't actually thought about this one! On the flip side, what about Ken McKinlay in 1969? After 12 heats, he was in fourth place on 7 points, but then ran two lasts. Steve

I was waiting for someone to mention Jack Biggs! Steve

6 - Nielsen 5 - Ermolenko 5 - Niemi 4 - Gundersen 4 - Knudsen 4 - Moran 4 - Pedersen Steve

Actually, assuming that there are at least three finishers in every race, a standard 20-heat, 16-rider meeting can be won on 8 points (with a run off - or series of run-offs)! There are a total of 120 points available, and without doing all the work, I am sure it is possible for a 9-point return to win WITHOUT a run off! Steve

This has been discussed on here before. Basically, there is a generic riding style used by most riders today, and it is not easy to identify individuals. In the old days, everyone seemed very different, and we had no trouble picking out the styles. We could identify riders wearing identical masks, and even when helmets like the Bell Moto III was popular, it wasn't hard to tell riders apart, even from just a head-and-shoulders pic! Steve

Okay, I think you are misunderstanding this thread,but that is understandable with some of the stuff being posted here! The thread was actually talking about Woffinden being the best ever BRITISH rider. Nobody is saying that he is up there with Mauger, Fundin, and Rickardsson. Yet! That remains to be seen, and only time will tell, but his achievements on the world stage have clearly exceeded those of any other previous British rider. Steve

But it is not "easier" when all their opponents are similarly prepared... Steve

I was never a fan of predominantly white leathers, but I thought that the Gulf/Weslake leathers (mostly white, with orange and blue trim) used by a few (Gordon Kennett and Steve Weatherley etc) looked cool! Steve