chunky

...nations have been represented in British (league) racing over the years? I know we have had some newer ones represented in recent years, particularly with the breakup of some of the Eastern European nations (and both the old and the new count if riders actually represented that particular nation at that time). A straightforward name-change doesn't count as two (Rhodesia/Zimbabwe). NO!!! MARK LORAM DOES NOT COUNT AS MALTESE! Neither does Graham Warren count... I am talking about bona fide nationalities... Apologies if this has been covered before, but it's quite possible that we would have increased the number now. Here is a start : England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland. France, Netherlands, Germany, West Germany. Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada. Argentina, Zimbabwe, South Africa. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Over to you... Steve

I know the museum wasn't there then, but when I lived in Apeldoorn, I would have only been about 30 minutes from it! Steve

I take it that was you, then? I'd never been to Peterborough at that point, and what really impressed me was that all three were taking totally different lines for the whole race, and nobody was able to get any advantage. Steve

BWitcher mentioned Peterborough, and thinking about it, it is surprising that nobody has mentioned that fantastic race from the 1983 National League Fours! Martin Scarisbrick, Dave Perks, and Richard Knight battled it out all over the track for four laps, with Scarisbrick finally getting the win. Steve

Not cheating; team-riding... Not the first time it happened, and won't be the last, but nobody complains when the Brits do it. Steve

That was the greatest single move I have ever seen in speedway. Nilsen was going flat out, and Gollob went inside him like he was standing still. Then, to totally miss the turn, and cut back inside the way he did... Steve

Yeah, I remember Glenn from there too! James' username is "spiegal", I believe... Steve

I finally found the match I was looking for - September 1978... A couple of weeks earlier, Roger Johns had inflicted the only defeat on PC at the Tommy Jansson Memorial. This time it was a league clash against the Aces at Plough Lane. After a couple of impressive wins against Mort and Les Collins, Johnsy then racked up two brilliant wins over PC to complete an incredible maximum. One of them saw passing and repassing, and no matter what PC tried, he just couldn't stop him. We lost 40-38, but seeing a couple of races like that, with Roger coming up trumps both times, it really didn't matter to us! Steve

I wasn't there, but I was the following week, and I still have the prog! Maido gave him such a write-up... Steve

Don't forget John Arlott, Brian Johnson, Henry Blofeld etc... Steve

Quite honestly, it's nothing new. A lot of speedway clubs - and even smaller football clubs - have requested for fans to help with things, whether it's painting and fixing things, or just clearing up trash. Nothing wrong with that at all; if you want to help, fine, and if you don't want to help, fine. Not like anybody is forcing you to do anything. With the fragile financial status of most clubs, it makes sense. Even if they weren't in that state, I would have no problem in helping. It can actually feel good to be involved, and to make a difference. Give me free drinks and biccies, and I'll be there! Steve

Too late for Dowdall; I don't recall him riding after the mid-70's. It was 1974 when he beat Eric Boocock in a second-half at Plough Lane. Steve

I do not detest you. I have often defended you, and I have given you friendly advice. I don't believe you are stupid - I have often said that - but to be that far off when you are adding FOUR simple numbers, does seem bizarre. And you did that for all three teams... The reason I wondered if you were seeking attention - and I do apologize if that truly wasn't your intention - was that "knowing my bad luck on the BSF" comment. Your problems on the forum have nothing to do with "bad luck", and the crazy totals you came up with here have nothing to do with bad luck. Your decision to even contemplate making an unnecessary (and seemingly pity-seeking) comment like that was exceedingly ill-founded. Steve

NOT EVEN CLOSE! I don't think you can claim "bad luck" either; bad addition, bad eyesight etc... Or are you seeking attention/pity by being that far off? The totals are: West Ham 113, Lea Bridge 102, High Beech 96. Steve

In 1930 the "Essex County Championship" was decided by total points scored, and was won by West Ham. Match results were : West Ham 31, High Beech 22 West Ham 34, Lea Bridge 20 Lea Bridge 30, High Beech 18 Lea Bridge 30, West Ham 18 High Beech 24, West Ham 30 High Beech 32, Lea Bridge 22 Steve

Absolutely. It goes back to what we were saying earlier about the nights when Mauger, Olsen, or Penhall came to town; we had been looking forward to those for weeks! One of the other factors you mention that destroy the aura is familiarity. We would generally only see those riders once - maybe twice - a season. Smaller leagues and multiple matches against the same teams means they become a "part of the furniture" so to speak, and they lose that aura. Steve

If you want to talk about Chris Morton, it's hard to beat his ride against Gundersen and Muller in the 1981 WTC Final at Olching... Steve

I'm sure you know my thoughts on this, and WHY I asked the question... Steve

In fairness to dear old Bryan, and to norbold, of course, did either of them state categorically that Clem Cort appeared in 1929 Southern League matches for Wimbledon and Harringay, or did they simply state that he appeared for those teams in 1929. If only the latter, then where did the claim that they appeared in Southern League matches for those teams originate? Did gustix simply assume that he appeared in Southern League matches, or was there any indication that he did? If there wasn't, then gustix could be considered more than the "messenger"... Similar to Mark Cherry. I am happy to state that he rode for Birmingham in 1976, but I cannot interpret that as him riding in the BL in 1976... Steve

The problem is that so many people just see things in black and white, whereas in most situations, there are grey areas that apply to many facets of that situation. One of the biggest issues I have with modern sport (and trust me, American sports are the worst) is that they try to explain and justify EVERYTHING (including probability) by using figures and stats. Look at darts. Percentage shots (having two beds to aim at instead of just one) are inflexible. Points-per-dart averages are also, with the ONLY factor involved being what you throw yourself, but speedway CMA's are affected by many outside factors, such as opponents, gate positions, mechanical issues etc. Having said that, trying to explain to an idiot how you can win at darts despite having a lower average, isn't easy... In speedway, a similar situation used to occur in World Championships. A rider could win every race in every world championship round, yet drop one point in the final, and he ended up second. Another rider could scrape through each time, have a good night at the final, and he was World Champ! That is why I find the SGP's much fairer... This leads me to ask one question that I have been thinking about during this discussion (and I would love to see everybody's answers and reasoning)... Which was a greater achievement; Hans Nielsen winning the 1986 World Championship, or his incredible 1986 BL record away from home? Steve

Researching a little more, I found another resource (a pretty comprehensive account of the early leagues, that was published on compact disc), that as far as the 1929 Southern League is concerned, shows no trace of Clem Cort riding for Harringay and Wimbledon. Steve

There really are so many factors that people don't take into account, and much of it is personal perspective. The same as when we look back and remember just how good the racing was back in the day, but when we look at videos now, we see that it really wasn't any different to what we see now. As far as the statistics, I do love them. The one thing I will say is that numbers don't lie, but they don't always tell the true story BEHIND the numbers... Steve

I know he appeared for White City in a Southern League match at Harringay on September 21... Steve

And this is quite possibly the worst post you have ever posted... To say that you cannot assess the ability of a rider when you have never seen him ride is absolutely ridiculous. I would have seen him more, definitely, but I can recall seeing Fundin TWICE; once in the 1969 World Final, and the other, the following year in the WTC final. Can I make an accurate assessment of Fundin based on those two meetings? Hell no. Can I make an accurate assessment of Fundin based on results, records, and reports from the previous 15 or so years? Hell yes! To claim anything else is totally laughable. Steve

What is worrying is that so many people seem mathematically challenged these days. It's not just that they don't understand it, but because they don't understand it, they don't believe it. Simple mathematics is generally - well - simple! More than that, it tends to be consistent and reliable - until people start adding unnecessary variables. Without the variables, even though the actual answers may differ (and here, I did state that the example was extreme and unlikely - though not impossible) the concept and the processes used to reach that conclusion remain constant. That could be one of the reasons I love darts and speedway so much; they both revolve around numbers! Steve