chunky

Pish! It's EASY to win a GP series! One-off World Finals were far better, and really showed the better riders! The calibre of rider at this level today is crap! These riders wouldn't even have been good enough to get in a BL team in the 60's and 70's! (At least, that's what I read on the BSF...)

It was after Wroclaw. I had absolutely NO complaints there!

This is exactly what I mean, John... You don't need to explain why you mentioned Tai's book! I wasn't referring to Tai's book! I was referring to your comment about American boxers, and again, we didn't need any explanation as I wasn't actually "complaining".. You try to offer unnecessary explanations on parts of a comment that we weren't even referring to, and don't need explanations. Still, you don't understand why I objected to your negative comment about my profession, do you?

Absolutely. Plus a patchy surface could prove Zmarzlik's downfall with the way he rides.

I just don't understand the way it has been done tonight. We had a similar situation a couple of GP's back (I can't remember which one), and Phil made sure the graders went round for a few more laps to ensure a more even surface. As I said, I just didn't think this was a great idea if they wanted to help Zmarzlik...

We don't need a complete breakdown of things, John. It's just frustrating when you only see half the stuff that's posted, complain about people deviating when you are doing it yourself (and again, I didn't "complain"), and then don't realise what you have done...

I was wondering what would have happened had Doyle passed Kolodziej...

That's why I like being a miserable git, and hate everyone equally!

You know, I'm really not sure about this watering tonight. With a greasy and patchy surface, surely that isn't helping Zmarzlik, particularly with his style of riding.

Emil must be kicking himself right now...

And Emil just blew it there... With Zmarzlik dropping points so far, a win for Emil there, and with all the leaders making the semis, that could still have been interesting...

Amazing the speed he got when he really went wide...

What I do know that there was one particular incident (at Cardiff, I'm sure) when he was there as a spectator...

Hmmmm... How long have you got? Of course, I wasn't able to personally witness things, but I know a number of forum members have... Steve

The one I think could really have made an impact was Cordy Milne, as he really seemed to be approaching his peak. He could certainly have eclipsed the achievements of his brother. Yep, all conjecture now...

We went through this a couple of weeks ago! You called me "unco-operative", yet I always try to answer and explain things. You wanted to know what I was talking about, and why I was surprised you couldn't call me by my name - when others knew me - and I regularly posted my name. I explained, but you missed it. You wanted to know why I was upset at an ignorant comment about my profession. I explained, yet you missed it. We have had several off-forum conversations, both on here and on Facebook, but you can't remember them. You complain about others deviating on this thread, yet you did it yourself - twice. I draw your attention to them, but you can't find them. I make a light-hearted response to your comment, but you were offended. Then, you say you regret starting this thread. Why? It is a great thread! Several of us have had a fascinating discussion, but because everything goes above your head, you come back with crap like you did. Why, John? Just try to stay on the same page as the rest of us...

You complained about people deviating from the thread title. However, YOU were the one who wanted to see Sidney's all-time (not British) Top 20 list - on this thread. YOU were the one who brought up the subject of books about American boxers - on this thread. I'm not babbling at all - just pointing out (yet not complaining) that you have been responsible for deviations on this thread - that YOU complained about. You still don't know who I am, or what I do, do you, John?

It was just unfortunate that he was at his peak when there was no World Championship. Like Vic Duggan...

I've beaten Paul Woods, Hughie Saunders, and Peter Tarrant - at darts... Does that count? Sorry gustix, I deviated; you can go back to your books about American boxers now...

Absolutely. Same as it has been in other motorsports (remember, Barry Sheene was No. 7), and of course, what has happened to football in recent years.

I totally get what you are saying, and as I said, I always appreciate reason and logic. The thing with Price, it wasn't just him... How many other riders could have developed into world-beaters had the war not intervened? You seem to be taking my first point a little to literally, though! There WERE events, just nothing like we have had since, and certainly not at a true international level. Having said that, there can be little doubt that virtually all of the world's best riders at that point were competing in the UK. So, even domestic meetings could be used here.

Go look on Google Maps in satellite view - you can't miss it. Very sad...

Sorry, forgot about that! As you say, though, that was totally meaningless and misleading because of the time period involved. Still, nobody has attempted a comparison based on overall performance...

That's good, coming from the individual who not only asked Sidney to name his Top 20 riders of all-time here, but also had the audacity to introduce American boxers into the thread!

My point is that league racing is a totally different level to world championship. It is not simply a case of how many titles, but of other performances at the top level, such as world championship rostrums, performance in Inter-Continental Finals and European Finals (although the quality of those did vary greatly), and World Pairs. Of course, these are also intertwined with longevity and consistency. It is stuff like that we use (along with home track advantage) when trying to differentiate between riders with similar records, such as Lee/Collins, and Loram/Havelock. However, NOBODY has yet attempted to compare Craven and Williams! I maintain that Woffy's SoN heroics last year were far more impressive than PC's WTC maximums. Woffy faced the vast majority of the world's best riders - at least twice - whereas Collins faced Michanek and Sjosten. His other main rivals were either not there (Mauger, Olsen etc) or on his own team. Forget about three meetings against one too, as Collins had 12 races against Tai's 13. Steve