chunky

Please elucidate... I am not who I say I am? I don't have any knowledge of speedway? What exactly do you mean I certainly do not have an agenda against you. I have stated many times that I just have a problem with stupidity. More than that, I have a problem with you accusing me of things. I have told you about that before, yet you continue to do so. Why can you not comprehend the fact that if you make accusations and lie, then people are going to take you to task. Recently, we seemed to be getting along fine, talking about England's best. Suddenly, I agree with a factual post by someone else, and you throw your toys out of the pram!

Well, you started it! I suppose that's what happens when you make a sensible post on here...

It has NOTHING to do with opinions! You need to stop make ridiculously false accusations.

You have accused me of several things tonight. Firstly, when I agreed with FACTS that falcace had posted, you immediately countered with the claim that they were NOT facts. Then you claim that my arrogance is embarrassing because I am standing by those facts. Then, there is the above statement which clearly indicates that you don't think I am giving them any credit at all, which is a total lie. You have done that several times before, most notably by screaming at me when you claimed that I said Billy Sanders was an "also-ran", which I didn't. Another totally false claim, as all I have ever done is stated that Woffinden's on-track achievements clearly put him above Collins and Lee.

You need SKILL to become a speedway world champion WHATEVER format is used. You also needed a lot more LUCK with the old system. That's why Collins wasn't a four-time World Champion. That's why Szczakiel was a World Champ. That's why a lot of the top riders missed out on World Finals on occasion.

Then please stop accusing me of things!

Stop f*cking accusing me! I have NEVER intimated that you can't say anything against Tai! There are things he has said and done of which I'm not a fan, but I can say the same about most riders. Peter Collins included. However, going by his on-track feats, it is impossible to look past his superb record. If you think it is easier for Tai to win a GP series, you may be right. However, it is easier for EVERYONE! In the old days, everybody rode in different numbers of meetings to be World Champion. At least what we have now, everybody has exactly the same chance...

When have I EVER not given those riders credit? I just prefer to judge individuals on what actually happened, and not what MIGHT have happened. I was a big fan of Collins, and he COULD have have had FOUR world titles in a row. Due to a series of unfortunate events, he didn't. I wasn't a fan of Lee, due to his dubious record. Again, he was perhaps the most talented rider of all time. However, due to his mental frailties, he never got close to fulfilling his potential. So, it doesn't matter what he COULD have achieved, he DIDN'T. Craven, I never saw, so it is difficult for me to say. He was clearly a brilliant rider, but tragedy prevented him from adding more world titles. Had he continued, he may well have won more, but we just don't know. Woffinden? Maybe not as naturally talented as Lee, and not as unfortunate as the two PC's, but through hard work and determination, and not a little skill, he has gone on to produce far and away the best World Championship record of ANY British rider. It is that record that makes him - in my view - the best British rider of all time. And he is not finished yet. In view of my comments above - and what I have posted previously - I fail to see how you can keep accusing me of not giving credit to other riders.

Yet you feel that YOU know better? That ONE World Title makes someone better than a three-time World Champ with a far superior record? Of course, Collins must be better than Woffinden because YOU think so. Of course, Lee must be better than Woffinden because you think Tai is an *rsehole. I have frequently stated on here how supremely talented Michael Lee was, but he wasted it. Plus, Lee's record of "questionable" decision-making and unreliability far outweighs anything that you feel Woffinden may have done wrong.

You tell me ANYTHING that falcace said in his post, that is NOT true.

Oh, I'm perfectly calm! I just don't get why you are so offended by me agreeing with a factual post made by someone else. Or why you are AGAIN accusing me of things that aren't true.

I don't like it when... 1) People think that opinions outweigh fact and... 2) When people make false accusations - like you frequently do

Why do you get so offended when someone has the temerity to disagree with your arrogance and biased opinions? I know you believe that your opinion is far more important than truth and fact, but again, there is nothing that falcace said that is not true.

What has that got to do with anything? FYI, bloody autocorrect changed "falcace" to false, so I don't know if that threw you...

Opinions don't matter here; FACT does. Everything falcace said is true. You are right when you say Tai never ever won a one-off final; he wasn't riding then...

Can't say I blame you! Pork and stuffing sarny sounds good right about now...

I'm getting tired of you coming up with such sensible and well thought-out posts. There is clearly no place for you on the BSF...

I'm so sorry... The pork and stuffing sandwiches, and incredible pork scratchings, were worth the trip alone!

So, years of being fed the wrong information in the press? Good thing that couldn't happen today!

Unfortunately, my copy is still in storage, so I can't check. Of course, speedway is prone to these issues as you never know whether league and KOC are counted in the averages, or just league...

According to Speedway History (proboards) he averaged 8.7 in 1965.

I knew Moggo pretty well, and used to follow him quite a bit. Great guy, and fantastic rider, but it didn't matter where I went to see him, he would usually end up through the fence at some point during the meeting! One of the best was at Foxhall in '87, when he demolished several sections of fence on the home straight...

Sorry I'm not as old as you! Actually, I was born in 1962, so there was a small chance...

That was the one thing that eluded me; I never got to see the Dons win the league. Best was the hat-trick of KOC's... Never saw a Wimbledon World Champ either - except for Larry in the 79 WTC.

From that list, the only one I never got to was the Cross. I was thinking the other day, the vast majority of tracks I visited have gone.