chunky

He was included in the England 'C' squad for two tests against Sweden in 1952. He scored 7+1 at Southampton, but didn't ride at Rayleigh.

Have to agree with Cradley, Belle Vue, and Wembley. I also loved Paisley and the original Canterbury.

If you have any punctuation issues, don't ask gustix for advice!

Yes he was, Steve! First thing I thought of too, and I'm sure he would have been a hard rider...

Seeing that my first choice - Ron Preston - has been taken, I'll go for Bob Kilby, Gordon Guasco, Alan Grahame, Bo Petersen, and Chris Morton.

As a matter of interest, John, do we spell it "woosh" or "whoosh"???

See, you can't get me out of your head...

Quit whining! I've wasted a whole day, worrying about why gustix dragged me into the conversation!

Why drag me into this?

I'm not sure whether he did ride at Rochdale at all, but his one appearance for the Hornets was away at Berwick. I would suspect that he may have had rides at Berwick, and that he was pressed into service by Rochdale who were short-handed. I know that the one appearance he made for Rayleigh in 1972 was at Workington, and he was listed as a guest.

I know you are talking about the 60's, but I went to Station Rd a number of times for NL meetings, and it wasn't bad.

It's just that I don't think one or two odd appearances - maybe as the result of an on-the-night loan, can actually be counted as a track "producing" riders for BL action! Again, that is your choice entirely...

Mitch Graham at Rochdale? He's already been listed under Worky, anyway...

Another for Ellesmere Port - Nicky Allott

Kings Lynn/Boston - Arthur Price and Carl Glover. I know Price had a handful of rides for Nelson and Crayford first, but he didn't do anything until he went to Lynn. Barrow - Craig Pendlebury and Keith Evans. Coatbridge - Mick McKeon.

I didn't remember Colin Cook riding for Poole (I did check, though), but you left out Steve Bishop, and (unbelievably) Rosco!

I know I think of some weird things, but this is one thought I had recently. I was wondering which two teams "shared" the most riders. By that, I mean riders who appeared for two specific teams, like Soren Sjosten, Dave Hemus, Ken Eyre, and Bill Powell riding for both Belle Vue and Wolves. I don't mean teams moving en bloc (Halifax to Bradford), or teams under the same management/nursery teams (Hull/Newcastle). Just off the top of my head, it would appear that Wimbledon and West Ham could be a contender (certainly as far as strength), and here is a quick list of riders who rode for both. Tony Clarke, Barry Crowson, Bob Dugard, Lloyd Goffe, Alf Hagon, Sverre Harrfeldt, Ron Howes,, Reg Luckhurst, Olle Nygren, Malcolm Simmons, Split Waterman. Thinking about it, Wimbledon and Ipswich might be better! Not the same quality, but... Ernie Baker, Pete Chapman, Steve Chilman, Mike Coomber, Alan Farmer, Gil Goldfinch, Mick Hines, Kevin Jolly, Jamie Luckhurst, Richard Knight, Peter Moore, Alan Mogridge, Kai Niemi, Olle Nygren, Alan Sage, Ali Stevens, Neville Tatum, Kevin Teager, Split Waterman. I would love to hear any others!

Firstly, I know it's YOUR thread, so you make the rules, but are we now including all riders who just made an appearance in the top division, rather than ones who actually established themselves at the higher level? Secondly, you have already listed Martin Yeates as Eastbourne. Thirdly, Kevin Holden started his career at Romford, not West Ham.

He was another waste of talent, and he pulled that "God" stunt to give himself the publicity!

He never achieved what he should have done, but he was a very capable rider, and I always liked him.

Jamie never established himself in the top division; that's why I didn't mention him.

Really, Steve? You left out Canterbury's David Mullett?

Just like to add something for information purposes... Other than the riders already mentioned, the only other rider from pre-1978 Div 2/NL to qualify for a World Final (main 16) was Doug Wyer. Steve Bastable and Tony Lomas both qualified as reserve, but neither got a ride, and neither did Andy Grahame. It took a few years, but Alan Grahame did get a couple of rides as a reserve in 1984. The next rider to start in the second tier and go on to ride in a World Final was Kenny Carter, with Mitch Shirra coming later. Norden in 1983 actually saw five such riders - Shirra, Lee, Morton, Carter, and Phil Collins - all qualify. In addition to Alan Grahame, 1984 saw Wigg getting in on the action. Simon Cross was next, then Troy Butler in 89, and Todd Wiltshire, Martin Dugard, and Richard Knight all appearing at Bradford a year later. Paul Thorp, Gary Havelock, Leigh Adams, and Chris Louis followed, and Marvyn Cox and Craig Boyce were the last two. There, we have a complete list of riders who started out in the second tier (from 1968 and beyond) who qualified for World Finals.

Happens in all sports... We had Bristow and Lowe.

Not in your eyes, apparently. Seems like you think I am a stupid tw*t...