chunky

Okay, gustix, why are you confused by the post I made above about Sprouts Elder?

My mum said the same. She was the secretary of the Wimbledon SSC, and was heavily involved in their functions, and she said that Ronnie was a fabulous dancer. She also said he was a real gentleman.

I know that Bob Radford passed away in May 2017, at the age of 70. I haven't looked, but I am absolutely positive that we had a thread on here.

Bill, perhaps. He did make an appearance for Kings Lynn in 1966, but I don't have any details; it may have been a guest outing. Mike Watkin definitely not. He rode for Barrow in 1972.

Five years minimum would seem to be a good starting point...

Bert Kingston is okay, I think, but Bob Jameson rode for Long Eaton, and also spent two years with Middlesbrough.

Mine was 51 years ago, and I remember it like yesterday. 51 years before that, and we were still fighting in WWI. That does make make us feel old, eh?

Steve mentioned Erik in the original post... Thing is, there are MANY riders who rode for only one British club, but only had one or two seasons in the UK. They do fit the criteria, but cannot be classed as "servants". Riders like Kafel, Szczepanik, Olkiewicz, Zabik, Grubmuller, Marzotto etc. Even Brad Oxley...

I never, ever thought I would say this to YOU, but you made a mistake!!! Bernie Leigh rode for Swindon in 1974.

Davey and Timmo are fine, but I'm shocked that, in addition to the two teams you named, you didn't know that Mike Keen had an outing for Oxford at Southampton in 1963!

Neither did Mike Keen... In fact, when we did this before, the majority of riders who were claimed to be one-track riders weren't!

Another track I was not familiar with, in Stockton, CA. This was from the San Pedro News Pilot, on 2nd July, 1935. Miny Waln Cops Feature Bike Race at Stockton "Miny Waln, Syracuse, N.Y., won the final scratch event of a motorcycle racing program marked by several spills at the Stockton speedway last night. Sam Arena, San Jose, finished second to the former national champion in the main race."

That is a little odd, seeing that he was really was a well-known public figure, and there is quite a bit off stuff online. Here is a tribute to Sprouts from the September 1957 issue of American Motorcyclist magazine (I have included the spelling mistakes!) "Lloyd "Sprouts" Elder has received the final checkered flag! To present riders, the name doesn't mean much, but to the old-timers, it means that one of the greatest short track racers has passed on. Sprouts was known all over the world. England will remember him as one of the founders of cinder track racing which become so popular in the early thirties, in fact, crowds of 75,000 were common. South America will remember him as the world champion and Australia will recall that he was the best exponent of the short track broadslide. We will always remember him as one of the finest, most loyal supporters that the AMA had. Sprouts was instrumental in organizing the Eastern circuit of short tracks when the boys were riding every night in the week! He got the two circuits going on the coast, in fact one track at Long Beach was built to his specifications, sunken pits, etc. He visualized several circuits and winding up with a World Series and we had a couple of them. After he hung up his handlebars he served as AMA referee for the East and later he joined the California Highway Patrol where he served with distinction. He was severely injured while on duty and only his indomitable spirit and will to win kept him alive. In the past years he has loafed and taken life easy. The sport of motorcycling owes "Sprouts" much, and we know that the Milne brothers, Cordy and Jack, Lammy Lamoreaux, Jimmy Gibbs, Crocky Rawding, Bennie Kaufman, and Bo Lisman, all former cinder track stars, will echo our statement that there was only one kingpin "Sprouts Elder". To know him was a pleasure, to be his friends was a privilege. He lived, ate, and slept motorcycles. Old "No. 4" has passed on; but that spirit will forever be present whenever and wherever motorcycles are mentioned."

Now, here is an interesting one! I know this is a little later, but this was from "The Billboard" magazine! They apparently had a regular "Speedway Round-Up" feature, with nearly everything about cars (mostly midgets), but there was this, from November 23, 1946. "LOS ANGELES - Wilbur (Lammy) Lamoreaux, Glendale, Calif., won the night speedway national motorcycle title by capturing four straight races at Lincoln Park Stadium here Sunday (3) before 3,000 fans. He edged out Jack Milne, of Pasadena, 20 points to 19. Jimmy Gibb, of Hollywood, was third with 17; Byrd McKinney, Pasadena, 17 (lost in run-off with Gibb); Earl Farrand, Glendale, 14; Burton Albrecht, Monterey Park, 14."

Well, over the last 30 or 40 years, there have been a lot of indoor ice meetings around the US (I've been to several), but information is a lot harder to find that when outdoor meetings were advertised in the papers back in the 30's. Until now, I never realised that Fresno was such a hotbed of activity back then.

I know this is from 1940, but you said that was fine. This is from the Madeira Tribune, dated 18 July, 1940. Glendale Ghost Will Augment Rider's Ranks "Heavy traffic and competition of 1935 and 1936 when the short track motorcycle racing jockeys drew top crowds of between 5000 and 6000 fans to the Fresno State college stadium is in store for the fifth consecutive week on the quarter mile track here Saturday night beginning at 8 o'clock. Promoters of the weekly flat track sports announced today Earl Farrand, the well known Glendale Ghost who used to make sport in springing upsets over Lammy Lamoreaux, Corfu and Jack Milne and others, is being sought to augment the ranks of the scratch riders this week. The races, booked for an 8 p.m. starting time, consume approximately two hours running time."

Iris and I have had our issues in the past - quite heated, in fact - but we are both mature enough to move on without bearing grudges. And PLEASE, don't say anything about norbold; the situation between you two is ENTIRELY of your own doing.

You make false accusations and you resort to name-calling, and you claim that I am the nasty one? So it's okay for YOU to preach to others? Why should iris move on to another thread? This is HIS thread, so I don't see why he should abandon it just because you have got yourself into a pother and have hijacked it.

Looks like I have an apology to make. Seems like they DID keep scores in some meetings, although that may just be in Championship meetings. I still don't suppose many Americans were ardent scorekeepers and statisticians like we anoraks...

That sounds about right...

Then I am sure you will be interested in https://speedwayprograms.com/index.html There are some incredible finds on there from tracks I never knew existed! It's a goldmine of information. Google is a great friend...

Where did you get that info? I have found a programme that lists those teams, and the entire schedule for the evening. That "M. Parker" is Mark Porter.

From the San Pedro News Pilot, September 6, 1933. Please note the apparent duplication of the "scratch finals" (I assume one was the handicap final). "Wilbur (Lammy) Lamoreaux featured the Long Beach Motospeedway motorcycle racing program last night, winning every race he entered but one in which he spilled on the last lap. Lamoreaux took the scratch final from Cordy Milne, Bo Lisman, and Jack Milne, in that order, in 1:11.6. Shorty Campbell won the scratch final from Burton Albrecht and Jack Milne in 1:14.6 after Lamoreaux had spilled. Albrecht beat Ed Hinkle and McKinney nosed out Jack Milne in the match races. The Loyola Lions walked off with first honors, 75-51, in the team match races with the Long Beach Pirates."

From the San Pedro News Pilot: McKinney Again Winner of Motorcycle Feature Los Angeles, June 15, 1935 "Byrd McKinney, Pasadena rider, walked off with his second consecutive victory in a week here last night when he won the feature scratch event in motorcycle race in 1 minute, 8.6 seconds. Clocked in behind him, in the order named, were Earl Farrand, Glendale, Cordy Milne, Pasadena, and 'Peewee' Cullum, Los Angeles."

You're 'avin a larf, mate! I don't think there has EVER been anything "official" as far as results and scores in American speedway, except in the short-lived league racing. The formats for domestic meetings are basically just a series of qualifying races with riders advancing according to position, and nobody is interested in keeping scores... A few years ago, they had a meeting in Springfield, Illinois, which was actually run (under the jurisdiction of the AMA) as a qualifier for the US National Championship. It was a standard 20-heat, 16-rider format. I think I was the only person in the entire place with any kind of scorecard (I printed my own). Seriously. People were whining because they had no idea what was going on, and wondered why a rider with three last places was still riding? They have no concept of anything other than a win-and-advance system, and certainly no inclination to keep any kind of scores. Results are just listed as "Scratch Main" and "Handicap Main", and nothing that happens before the finals is considered worthy of record-keeping.